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Expectations

Started by willingtohelp, April 15, 2010, 07:19:47 PM

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MLW07

Quote from: Laila9 on April 16, 2010, 07:02:50 AM
Quote from: cremebrulee on April 16, 2010, 06:32:14 AM

Birdy...Hello, and welcome....

as a DIL, I hated holidays...hated waking my son up early, rush thru his gift opening, and resented, not being able to stay in our own home for the holidays ( I literally resented the holidays)...no, instead, we were EXPECTED to be at my mom's and then my MIL's home...and I always had to work the next day...we had a 45 minute drive, and all I wanted to do was spend Christmas at home with my family...small as it was...however, it would have hurt both parents to say no, so, we didn't...however, holidays should not be dreaded, they should be enjoyed.

My neighbor has 3 sons....every Christmas day they were all arguing about wanting to stay home on Christmas Day instead of running around....she told me, she didn't blame them and then said to all of them..."OK, how bout this idea...how bout the Sat. before every Christmas, we spend here and that will be our Christmas celebration together". 

Just an idea...I think things like these can always be worked out, with patience, compromise and understanding the other persons point of view...

Just my thoughts

I agree anything can be worked out with patience and compromise.

However I would take a different approach and arrange an alternative day with mom and MIL - separate days too so that there was less rushing and have the holidays with my little family - then we can enjoy it as a family.

I would put the happiness of my kids - especially if they were complaining about not liking having to go - above that of either set of parents.  They're only young once and should be able to enjoy xmas the way they want while the magic if still there. 

And I think the DIL and sons parents should both understand that - when they had their young children they made their own choices - and if that choice was to rush and visit each set of parents then that was their decision.  But that doesn't then give an obligation for their children to do the same when they have families of their own.

It may be selfish but I would put mine and my childrens wants at the holidays above everyone elses because they had their life and their young family and now its our turn.  I wouldn't want to regret not having christmas at home when my kids are older.

**Editted to add: if either side declined and said "christmas is only on christmas and no presents if you don't come to us that day" then I would tell them that's fine.  It's their choice but I'm an adult and the parent of the children concerned and I won't give in to demands or power plays (which the gift comment obviously is).


I wished a long time ago my MIL would compromise, but she never would.  In her word,"I am a hardheaded Czech woman and I  get what I want."  I think that explains it all.  I don't take kindly to being told what to do...you can ask my parents I have always been that way.  To me their is a huge difference in asking please or just straight out demanding.  In my MILs eyes it is all about her and her extended family.  The poor nuclear family is left out in the cold.

MLW07

Quote from: cremebrulee on April 16, 2010, 07:09:11 AM
I'd like to add something else to this post if I may....which I think is applicable to both DIL's and MIL's.

What none of us want to realize or face...is...when our son's marry, there is a drastic change.  We mother's were they're best friends at one time...they depended on us, needed us, and relyed on us for they're safety and well being, as well as advice and comfort.

However, when our son's grow up, they do just that...and sometimes, I believe, that is the most difficult thing for a mother to do, is to let them go...to actually push them out of the nest....after all, those boys, now full grown men, were our whole purpose for a long long time...we gave up so much for them, which is normal for a mother to do...we put our dreams aside, and our children become our purpose...then all of a sudden, they grow up and it's difficult to let them go....they are and do consider themselves mature adults...they cannot wait to make they're own decissions...make they're own mistakes, choose they're own friends, have they're own place and develop they're own traditions....however, in our lives that is one of the hugest changes we are ever going to have to swallow.  It's the same for parents whose kids go off to college...it's a very difficult transition...for some, not all, but I've seen grown men, really worry and actually cry, b/c they're little girls are leaving home and going off to college.

All of a sudden, it's like the rug is torn out from under you and there you sit, feeling alone, and the house if very very quiet...no more, mom this, or mom, can you do that...and do you remember dropping everything you were doing to answer that Mom, can you do this or that request...?  I can.  So, now what do we do with our lives...for all those years, we put our sons first...loving them dearly with all our hearts....we were used to not only them coming to us for love, advice and yes, even discipline...but also they're friends...now, there we sit, all alone, and it's all gone and over with...what a shock to the system.

Now, our son's take a wife...this is a whole other person who comes into the picture, with a whole different way of doing things...she is young, and yes, I remember being so immature, impatient and surely didn't want to be told what to do or how to do it, or I had to be there, or here at such and such a time...why, my MIL even told me, how much we had to give in our cards for family birthday presents or christenings, etc.  Sheeesh....

So, my point is, you have two women who love the same man...who are fighting for they're place in this man's heart.

Then, one thing happens...perhaps the MIL says something our of habbit, b/c she's always done it that way, and expects that, that is the way DIL and Son will view it, or visa versa, DIL announces, we are going here or there this Christmas....and all of a sudden, MIL, feels her heart in her throat...silently screaming...."WHAT???" Your not spending Christmas with us?????
I can understand the hurt, the pain of realizing, your only son is not going to be here for Christmas...

To be perfectly honest with all of you, I do believe that is why my son and his wife moved away....they didn't only have my expectations to meet with, but his father's and her mothers, each of us owning our own family...and that is spreading it pretty darn thin...therefore, to solve the problem, they moved away....and frankly, I can't blame them...

We as human's want, what we want, when we want it...and unfortunately, when our son's marry, they are so eager to start they're new lives with the love of they're lives...they don't love us any less, however, they love they're wives in a whole new way, they've never known before....and in a way, they could never experience before.  They're wives now become theyr'e best friends, and confidents...and that is the way it should be...that is life, that is how we all went thru the steps...we got married and clung to our husbands....some of us went home, but our husbands and families became priority...

So, now we have two women who just locked horns...over where Chistmas this year is going to be...both of them are hurt...very hurt, b/c they're expectations were not meant...so, now, we as woman turn that hurt into anger, and start to analyze, and view the whole situation as a rejection...when, in fact, it isn't at all, it's simply what they, our son's and DIL's want to do...

I suppose this has always been a little bit easier for me to grasp because, when my son was growing up, I vowed..that I wouldn't play tug of war with him, as I'd seen so many other couples who were divorced do with they're children.  So, I'd always ask him, where would you like to go for Christmas, or for Easter, or for Thanksgiving...and really really allowed him to feel that it was ok to choose his father's home and I wouldn't be hurt...I never let on that I was hurt...it was more important to me that he be happy and comfortable, so, I guess, that is why I can see this a little easier then some...

Ladies...from my heart, I wish I could solve all of your problems, both MIL's and DIL's...I really do...I know the horrible pain I went thru...how awful it was...for 12 years...however, when I started to change my thoughts and ideas, and expectations on things, that is when it all started changing for me...

I know there are exceptions and some MIL's are down right unreasonable and have to have ti there way all the time, and I know there are some DIL's out there who are the same, very self imposed and unreasonable...but, there are also some DIL's out there that want the same thing we want, but like us, do not know what to do, are afraid, and have been hurt...by expectations and then analizing the situation, to the point that we convince ourselves, they must hate us, when they don't.  All they want is some privacy and space to start they're own lives together, make they're own decissions, and yes, even allow the grand children to go where they say they should be...it's nothing against anyone...perhaps the DIL had some really scary experience when she was a child, and that is why she doesn't want to allow her children with you as much as you would like?  Perhaps she is over protective...while they are our grand children, we all have to understand, those children are they're children...and while I think it's really important for a child to have as many role models in they're lives while growing up...unfortunately, some mother's don't feel that way, and they have they're reasons, be them fair or not, they are the mothers.

I know how awful hurt I was, b/c my DIL said, "No potty training".  yet, girls my DIL's age at work said, "sheesh, I'd be happy if someone started potty training my child"....everyone feels differently and both side of us, someone have to come together and say...ok, maybe I don't do things that way, however, she is not doing this to hurt me, it's how she feels...

Yes, indeed, letting go of expectations is very difficult...I can remember the shock of it all when this all started with me...however, it was in fact a miscommunication, which escalated, and got worse and worse, until we were both ready to listen to each other...really listen, and be able to let go and give...forgive, and not bring up anything else in the past that happened, but actually move foreward together....me taking a huge step back, and allowing my son, his love of his life...and I realized, to do and be otherwise, is literally asking him to choose....

Time changes things, time moves on...sometimes, it doesn't always seem fair...and sometimes, it's extremely un nerving and heartbreaking...however, there is a new life that blooms each and every spring...all we have to do, is feed it...and it smiles glorisously...we have to find something else to fill our lives...and allow our son's to be...to make they're own decissions and love they're wives, making they're own rules and traditions up...we can't always have our own ways, when another person is involved....

and it's the hardest most difficult thing to do...you feel so alone at times, but when I feel that way, I take heart, that my son is very very happy and very much in love....and that most of the problem was, that I disapproved, which broke his heart....because maybe he didn't realize it, he only wanted my approval...me to love his wife as he did...and everytime I fought it, it was like saying to him..."You made a mistake, your wife is not for you, and it berated her everytime I tried to plead my side of the story with him...and rightfully so, I can understand his postion...he didn't see me as trying to prove my side of the story, he only heard negative words against his wife...his love of his life...and we, would do the same, we would take offense, back off from whomever didn't approve of our husbands, and be very very hurt.

So, while this post of mine, may not apply to anyone else here, but me....you all know your own situation...I had to share my thoughts...and how it was for me...

I hope, I've now given my son, GD and DIL a great gift..peace and happiness together, and when they have time for me, they will come, and when they together feel that I need some time alone with GD or with Son, they will allocate to me that time...after all, they live out of state, and they're time is limited...and they have two whole other families to share with...

and so, I hope I've grown some, and do right by them....all I really want for my son, is his happiness....

and he is...and very very relieved now...

and yanno, I wonder, now, if that poor girl who is my DIL understands, that I really did think, she was taking my son away from me...b/c things quickly changed so drastically...like a ton of bricks...allof a sudden, my son was gone, and a great deal of my purpose went with him...and she now became the lady of the house...and our cultures clashed, and we acted out against each other, and each time something happened, it made it worse, now we're both walking on egg shells and every time something happened, it was "AHHHH HAAAA"  see another strike against her....and another and another...until it got so way out of hand and so God awful hateful...I don't believe I hurt another human being, Like I hurt my son and DIL...that, is very difficult to swallow...all b/c I didn't understand, what in the world was going on...?  I can't help but wonder now, if maybe I depended on him to much...for my own happiness and purpose? 

again, please know, I'm thinking outloud and only sharing my thoughts, not anyone else's here...b/c all of your situations are different...not one is alike...the other....

thank you for allowing me this time to vent...

Love to you all
Creme


Well said creme!  I think you hit the nail on the head.

Birdy

Quote from: Anna on April 16, 2010, 08:01:30 AM
Expectations.  Good subject.  I guess I expected to be a part of my son, dils, & gc'c lives, I expected to be able to take my gc out.  You know, like to a movie, overnight visits, shopping trips, to the zoo, to the park, mini putt etc... now & then.  I don't mean every weekend.  I mean like once or twice a month.  We live close so it is do-able.  I expected that my son & dil would not show hostility towards us.  I expected a thank-you when we helped them out.  But most of all I expected love & understanding, give & take, compromise, promises kept, & respect for each other as human beings, with all of our faults to boot.  I am not perfect.  I will make mistakes & stumble along the way, as will my son & dil.  I can forgive them their mistakes.  I expect forgiveness, especially since we have never done anything major to upset them.  I am not an alcoholic, a drug addict, or a criminal.  I am a wife, a mom, a grandmother, a mil, a daughter, a dil, a sister, a sil, an aunt, & a friend. I am the full time care-giver for my gc.   I have many different roles.  Most of all I am human.  Can you forgive me for being human & making mistakes.

Anna:

I don't know a lot about your background, but I have to say to me it doesn't sound like this is your fault.  Unfortantely for you it sounds like you have a very immature, very insecure, very selfish DIL.

I would give just about anything to have my children's GP closer.  I would gladly welcome the break I would get for all the joy you would get with doing things with the GC.

And I don't think your expectations are out of line.  I always make sure to thank my IL's.  Always.  Isn't that just common courtesy.

I am soo sorry that it has to be this way for you.

cremebrulee

Quote from: Laila9 on April 16, 2010, 08:23:02 AM
I just wanted to mention that it seems that a lot of you ladies (and I'm not saying wrongly I'm just suggesting an alternative) see the problem with not being able to take the kids anywhere as DILs problem and that maybe she's scared of something that happened to her.

But perhaps its not her - perhaps its your son that doesn't want the kids to go to say 'Adventure Playground' because of a bad experience he hasn't ever told you about. 

I understand that as a mother you know your sons but we don't always necessarily know everything about our own family even if we're super close.  My example is:

I don't drive which means I can't visit my parents without my DH as we live too far away.  My mom saw it as DHs fault that I didn't drive because he was controlling me and wanted to keep me home and not let me see them. 

The truth is - and I still haven't admitted it to her - that I'm afraid of driving and have been for a very long time due to a bad experience.  DH knows this and would never say to my mom even though he's the one being blamed.

So just maybe in some cases its not DILs issue but a secret issue of your sons thats she's trying to protect him from having to face again.

Although to be fair in Anna's case her DIL is clearly just unreasonable! and Anna's expectations were not too high at all.  *hugs for Anna* because you seem like a lovely MIL and grandmother.

ahhh, what a different way of looking at it and a whole new perspective, yes, I agree, that is indeed food for thought...I am certain there are things that happened to my son that he can't share with me....so, yeah, that is a very important insight...thank you...


cremebrulee

Quote from: Birdy on April 16, 2010, 08:34:26 AM
Quote from: Anna on April 16, 2010, 08:01:30 AM
Expectations.  Good subject.  I guess I expected to be a part of my son, dils, & gc'c lives, I expected to be able to take my gc out.  You know, like to a movie, overnight visits, shopping trips, to the zoo, to the park, mini putt etc... now & then.  I don't mean every weekend.  I mean like once or twice a month.  We live close so it is do-able.  I expected that my son & dil would not show hostility towards us.  I expected a thank-you when we helped them out.  But most of all I expected love & understanding, give & take, compromise, promises kept, & respect for each other as human beings, with all of our faults to boot.  I am not perfect.  I will make mistakes & stumble along the way, as will my son & dil.  I can forgive them their mistakes.  I expect forgiveness, especially since we have never done anything major to upset them.  I am not an alcoholic, a drug addict, or a criminal.  I am a wife, a mom, a grandmother, a mil, a daughter, a dil, a sister, a sil, an aunt, & a friend. I am the full time care-giver for my gc.   I have many different roles.  Most of all I am human.  Can you forgive me for being human & making mistakes.

Anna:

I don't know a lot about your background, but I have to say to me it doesn't sound like this is your fault.  Unfortantely for you it sounds like you have a very immature, very insecure, very selfish DIL.

I would give just about anything to have my children's GP closer.  I would gladly welcome the break I would get for all the joy you would get with doing things with the GC.

And I don't think your expectations are out of line.  I always make sure to thank my IL's.  Always.  Isn't that just common courtesy.

I am soo sorry that it has to be this way for you.

Maybe given time, Anna's DIL will mature and change...I know a lot of DIL's enjoy the break...my girlfriend and I were laughing the other day...she phoned me and said, her own daughter organized a Mother's Day gift from her and her 3 sister in laws...guess what it is, and this is so funny....they are all going to give they're children to her for Mother's Day, so they can go to the Casino's....she and I started laughing so much...and I think it is funny...that her own daughter would think, that is a wonderful gift for Mother's Day....???????  My friend told me, Creme, I love my Grand kids and my daughter and daughter in laws, however, I can think of a much better Mother's day gift, like we all have a picnic together....or go out to eat together...or meet down at the shore house, together....LOL


cremebrulee


Quote
I wished a long time ago my MIL would compromise, but she never would.  In her word,"I am a hardheaded Czech woman and I  get what I want."  I think that explains it all.  I don't take kindly to being told what to do...you can ask my parents I have always been that way.  To me their is a huge difference in asking please or just straight out demanding.  In my MILs eyes it is all about her and her extended family.  The poor nuclear family is left out in the cold.

Whew, I think anyone would have a problem with your MIL, I would never take well to being talked to like that....very unfair....I'm wondering, since she announced that, sheesh, this is a long shot, but I'm wondering, if, in fact she's looking for you to challenge her...yanno, and I may be way off base, but sometimes people like this, admire those who are not afraid to stand up to her...is this merely a fear tactic she uses?

willingtohelp

Pent and Anna, I personally think everyone should write thank you notes and that fruit baskets or bottles of wine should accompany them when the favors are quite large (think dinner, hosting, etc).   But I ever expect one because not everyone feels like I do (and because if I did, I'd have a lot of unmet expectations). 

I'm not saying you're wrong to expect these things.  All I'm saying is that by evaluating what expectations aren't being met, you can zero in on why you're feeling hurt or angry.  Then you have to decide if that expectation is fair and if it's been communicated to the other person (or if it's fair for you to expect them to know it).  Does your DIL send thank you notes to others?  That would be the test of if she 'just doesn't know" or if it's just you.

I decided to start this post after reading a post where it seemed the big problem was that the DIL's expectations and the MIL's expectations were just butting against each other.  So I'll throw another question out into the long list.  I expect to be Santa, the Easter Bunny, and the Tooth Fairy for my child.  Am I allowed to have this expectation?  What should happen if someone else expects to be able to do it, too?  Do the reasons behind why I want to do it make the expectation any more valid?  Does it make it more valid if I'm applying it to everyone?  The reasons I was there to be only one Santa are...

First, I feel that the "magic" of waking up and seeing your presents in the morning will be diminished a bit if the kids look through those and then are thinking, I wonder what's at gramma's house and aunt's house and memaw's house for me, too.  It prevents a bit of "being in the moment".

Second, it's so hard to keep kids believing in Santa once they get older, and having different handwriting on the gifts from Santa, the gifts at different houses, and other differences (why does Santa use different paper,  why did Santa give me the same toy at both houses, etc) will make that moment end sooner.  Without giving away too much, I figured out the truth over a few mundane details that didn't add up. 

And third, I don't like how Christmas is becoming more and more a gimme holiday.  I'd rather give gifts to my child and say we exchange them on this day to celebrate Christ's birthday and because of the great gift God gave us in Christ.  So Santa, in our house will always bring bigger gifts (the bike, etc) but not the piles of gifts.  And I think that adding more and more gifts to the Santa tally takes away a bit from the real reason behind the giving.

So looking at the question, do I have the right to expect to be the only Santa for my kids?  I think as the parent, that is something that falls under my control.  I think the reasons stated above are valid ones for wanting to (ie it's not just that I want the glory), but I also feel that unless I make my feelings known, I can't expect someone else to know what I'm thinking. So DH and I told our families before our DD's first Christmas.  And they were fine with it. 

So all I'm asking is for people to try to determine what their expectations are and if they have been effectively communicated to the other party.  And if expectations are in conflict, to determine when you're willing to lower yours and when you're willing to leave the relationship if they're not met.   

cremebrulee

Quote from: Anna on April 16, 2010, 08:46:53 AM
Thank-you Franklyspeaking, & Creme.  I have tried to talk to dil, several times in the past, & I still try.  She seems very cold & unaproachable.  I am not the only one who feels this way about her.  It is better for me to go thro hubby, &, or son.  Dil takes offense to just about everything I say or do, & this is a hard way to live.  Our dil doesn't understand why we would want to take ou gc out, let alone why we would want one to one time with them.  After all they are her children, not ours.  I know she will one day understand, but that doesn't help us in the here & now.  We have been allowed overnight visits, & outings recently,  & we are so happy about it.  Things have eased & I believe dil is really trying to, at least, meet us partway.   I think she may be finally relaxing with her children, realizing that we do not want to steal them from her, ( I think she honestly viewed us wanting time with them as trying to steal them from her), so I can understand why she may have been terrified to give us that time.  She had a pretty rough childhood, but at some point, you have to let it go, & live in the present.  I know I had some pretty horrific things happen to me, I haven't forgotten, & never will, but I have learned not to let it interfere with my relationships now.   Hard lessons to learn, but it can be done.

hmmm, this is very difficult Anna, I don't know how to advise you except this...I would not go thru hubby to son...and here's why...regardless of what you say to son, it's going to get carried back to DIL...and she will feel like, "Why did they go to you?, Why don't they talk to me? or she will feeel that she has already said no, and your trying to over ride her decission and stir up the pot between her and her husband, your son."  So, this will make things worse, she's going to get angry, upset, then start thinking the way we women think and say to herself..."oh, those people hate me, they treat me as if I'm not a wife....and they are doing everything they can to make my life miserable, I already said no????"

so, what do you do?  Patience...and that is a very big word, b/c you feel like your loosing time...well, if I may, maybe by telling you this, it will help you....you are getting over night stays now, you are getting time with your grand kids now...I know you want more, and deserve more, however, your caught between a rock and a hard place, this is a no win situation....repeat that over and over again...this is a no win situation....because even if your son does by chance say yes, then, she is going to retaliate in some negative way and it will make things harder on you guys, so I guess what you have to do is ask yourself, is it worth it...b/c down the road, we may find ourselves with less priviledges? 

I'm hoping by being appreciative of what you have now, stepping back and allowing her...she will come to her senses and understand....she may not...but in each and every decission you make regarding this issue, you're going to have to ask yourself if your able to deal with any more negative consequences due to your actions and reactions to her...you don't ever want to make the situation worse...

my suggestion is, be patient, and not go to son...

I was going to tell you, it's going on four years that I haven't seen my GD...but that is my situation, not yours...I used to have her every weekend...every weekend...we developed quit a close bond...matter of fact, when they moved away, back to where they were before, (they were only here a year) my GD got sick and vomited....she knew...she's fine now, of course...in school and has made friends and has a good life...however, I don't know her....she doesn't remember me....am I sad, yes indeed, but that's life, I can't always have my way...if I fight it, I make myself sick...and make things worse on myself...I know parents that put they're kids on planes to go spend vacation with they're Grand parents...Grand parents are a very important part of a child's life, or should be...however, it's up to the mother...and no matter what, she usually gets her way...and we all know that, being mother's ourselves....so, Anna, I am at a loss to suggest anything other then please, don't be impatient, be happy for what you have....and perhaps more will come if you do, instead of fighting her for more now?


MLW07

Quote from: cremebrulee on April 16, 2010, 08:44:05 AM

Quote
I wished a long time ago my MIL would compromise, but she never would.  In her word,"I am a hardheaded Czech woman and I  get what I want."  I think that explains it all.  I don't take kindly to being told what to do...you can ask my parents I have always been that way.  To me their is a huge difference in asking please or just straight out demanding.  In my MILs eyes it is all about her and her extended family.  The poor nuclear family is left out in the cold.

Whew, I think anyone would have a problem with your MIL, I would never take well to being talked to like that....very unfair....I'm wondering, since she announced that, sheesh, this is a long shot, but I'm wondering, if, in fact she's looking for you to challenge her...yanno, and I may be way off base, but sometimes people like this, admire those who are not afraid to stand up to her...is this merely a fear tactic she uses?

I think she dared me/mom/DH to stand up to her (BTW she told my mom this while we were all out wedding planning.)  She is the type that if you cross her she throws a fit, hangs up on you, gets all the younger nieces and nephews on her side and get them to defend her (one of them told me I am too stupid to know when I am in the presence of a wonderful angel like my Aunt and that I ruined my wedding with my presence, and she get real indignant.  She is a piece of work.  My DH and I truly believe she is evil and narcissistic. 

Pen

Clover, for some reason my thoughts aren't getting through. I'm sorry if I haven't made myself clear. I hope you don't mind slogging through this again with me so I can be sure you understand. The "thank you" issue is not the important thing to me. Somewhere along the line you missed that DH and I had spent all day, on the hottest day of the year, helping DS & DIL move and clean. Her parents and siblings were not there, it was up to us to drive for two hours, work hard all day without being offered food or drink. We were not appreciated for our efforts, and in fact have been treated even more rudely by her since then. So why did we do it? Because we love them, they asked, we thought it would help show DIL that we accept her and want to be considered part of the family.

No, there's no law that says DIL needs to thank us. There's no law that says she has to like us. But it's polite to show appreciation (don't want a fruit basket, just a kind word - and lunch...a water bottle might be nice, LOL) when people who don't have to help you come and give up a day (well, two days actually because we were really sore the next day - we're old) to help you move. I don't expect anything from DIL, but I mention these things to point out how she feels about us. They are examples of her behavior.

Holidays - we've been parents, too, and totally understand about the Christmas morning - pj thing. DS & DIL don't have kids yet, so that's not the holiday issue we're dealing with. What happened with us is that DIL's family set the rules without any discussion or compromise with us. It's their way and that's that. Finally the SILs (our DS & his BIL) stepped up and complained that they should at least get every other Christmas with their FsOO. So now DILs family gets EOC plus a week every Christmas. We get EOC and no week. BTW, it's DS's only week off from work (he works for FIL.) They've pretty much sewn up his life. Yes, I understand they have the right to make their own choices, but it still hurts.

Other celebrations? They laid down the law regarding meal times and we always have to work around it. By the time DS & DIL get to us they're full and sleepy. If we don't agree with this we miss seeing DS, so we go along with whatever they want. We let them all run the show and try to fit ourselves in.

Does even a little part of you see that this behavior is rude, inconsiderate and unfair? Even if they all "have the right" to do it? I can understand DIL frustrations when I read their stories of unfair, abusive treatment from ILs and have expressed support. Can I get the same courtesy?
Respect ... is appreciation of the separateness of the other person, of the ways in which he or she is unique.
-- Annie Gottlieb

cremebrulee

Quote from: Anna on April 16, 2010, 09:13:26 AM
I feel very lucky that we are getting more time with our gc, & I am happy with the time we are now getting,  I hope I didn't sound otherwise.  The way this came about was to have my hubby talk to our son.  My husband felt the same way as me but never conveyed this to son or dil untill recently.  So, son & dil,  saw it differently when coming from my hubby, who they seem to have great respect for.  For me, the only choice seems to be getting son & hubby involved.
I am so sorry you haven't seen your gd for 4 years.   :'(  I think that would kill me.  You only deserve that kind of treatment if you are a criminal.  I don't understand total cutoffs unless you have done something truly horrible, & I know you haven't.

No, Anna, I feel that your needs are merited as far as you GC....I was just trying to explain that it could always be worse, and that is what helps bring me back to tow....it is what it is...it doesn't kill me, I won't allow it to...it's my GD's life with her mother and father...that's it...i can't control this situation...they live far away and due to the problems we've had, that's what happened...it's life, and sometimes life isn't always fair, but I've learned the more I fight it, the harder life became for me...I created my own problems...Anna, no one else....dont' be sorry, I learned a very hard lesson...believe me...

so, Anna, I wish you all the luck and happiness in what ever you decided to do....I hope you know that.

hugs
creme

cremebrulee

Quote from: Birdy on April 16, 2010, 08:24:40 AM
Cremebrulee:

I am sorry that you had to go through all that.  It seems that you may have hit the nail on the head about your DIL insecurities and being immature.

Thank you, well, Birdy, I was very young, immature and insecure at one time myself...



QuoteI love my MIL, I really do and she is a great women.  I have told her that several times.   She isn't perfect and either am I.   Do we have problems - ya betcha.  But you know what I have problems with my DH, my parents , my sister etc....   Everyone does.    There have been times when she has been down right mean or rude, but then again - I am sure so have I.  But I also will get over it and move on.  In addition I just don't let a lot of things get to me.  That is just the way I am. 

I dont' care who the family is, there are always family politics...however, we seem to be able to tollerate our family members much more then someone who isn't....if we'd walk around getting angry and everyone and staying angry, we'd not have any friends, would we?

QuoteI have none of that possessiveness of my children and welcome any help.  I am not insecure in my position where I stand with them.  I am their mother and that can never be taken away from me - period.
I'm glad, b/c it will help them be better at socializing...the more children are exposed to people and good role models, the better adults they make...they can choose who and what traits they want to adopt...it's very very healthy for children.

QuoteHas she tried to give me advice on stuff, yes - and it is just that advice.  I take it with a grain of salt and move on.  Like when she tried to give me breastfeeding advice and yet had never done it herself:)  My father tried to give me advice also - but well I didn't follow that either.

a lot of times, mothers are mothers, that's all they know...they were used to giving advice to they're kids, so are they going to change now, NO.  And I havwe to laugh at the breastfeeding advice....LOL

QuoteI am going to speak for myself on this one, but sometimes I am really not sure if I have a MIL problem every single time, I think I have more of a DH problem.  I have no issue telling my parents this is how it is or we are going to do this or that.  I take what they throw at me.  DH on the other hand is afraid to by a problem child, to rock the boat and to upset his parents.   

I wonder if it's that, or could it be also, that he just has been taught that parents are just that, and you don't question or challenge them...some parents are very strict that way, yanno...

I can't tell you how much my son taught me, however, I'd never admit it to him...LOL

QuoteI also know that a couple of time DH & I have come up with a plan as a united front and have excuted our choice/decision as soon as he hears some back lash from his parents, he will cave and  he will start to say well Birdy thought this would work or Birdy though that.  Ummm - no we came up with together and not apart.

well, keep working on it...and reminding him, there is always hope.... ;)


QuoteI have to wonder and think that I can't be the only DIL in this type of situation.

No your not...when I was a DIL, I remember feeling the same way...like he was taking her side, b/c he wouldn't see my point of view, but defend his mother, and she felt the same way about me...that he was defending her and calling her a liar....it isn't so, they just do not know what to do or how to handle it...like my son always says, women are very emotional...and you put one man inbetween two women, they coware...why, b/c they fear so much hurting both of us...or seeming disloyal...actually what we're doing is making them choose...can you even begin to imagine how difficult that must be? 

QuoteCould our DH actually be causing some of our issues with our MIL???

I beleive they are, b/c when they start dating, the only thing they can talk about is they're mothers, they're friends, and they're past experiences...therefore, if our son's are dating insecure women....they fear perhaps not being able to live up to they're mothers and "that maybe he won't love me as much as her?" 

QuoteHopefully I didn't take the original post completely off track, just some additional food for thought!

No, not at all, enjoyed reading your post and perspectives...and by the way, while it may not have bothered you, My mil insisted on buying the nursery furniture...it was not what I wanted...why is it, grand parents interfer to the point of they have this insatiable need to purchase all these huge gifts for the baby?  It really hurt my feelings...I wanted something completely different, but she insisted...and I had to keep my mouth shut...

My MIL wasn't a mean person, she was very controlling, in that she raised herself and 3 brothers, she was used to doing what she did....and I am also a person that controls my own life...and somewhat controlling...we all are to some degree....

thanks so much for sharing, I enjoyed hearing your story...and we live and learn, don't we?

willingtohelp

Pent, I'm sorry that what I've said isn't being read the way I meant it.  I'm not the best at expressing myself through the written word, and I'll try to do better.  I think you have *every* right to expect to be thanked and appreciated when you do something for someone else.  You moved them on the hottest day of the year.  They *should* say thank you.

I also feel that people should send a thank you note for a gift.  And if I don't get one, I'm left wondering one of two things....did they not send me one because they didn't like my gift (or me) or did they not send anyone one (because they don't send thank you notes).  If it's because they didn't like the gift or me, then I would stop having a relationship with that person.  They treated me unkindly and my expectation to at least receive polite treatment wasn't met.  If it's that they just don't send them out, but they're otherwise lovely people, then I'd have to decide if it is worth dropping the friendship because I didn't receive one.  If I'm going to feel resentful each time I do something because they don't send one, then I think I'm obligated to bow out or speak up so we can try to find a way to work together.  If I'm able to just accept that's the way they are, then there's no reason not to remain friends and since I no longer have that expectation, I'm not disappointed when it doesn't happen.  Am I explaining this correctly?  I'm not saying you aren't right in what you expect and that I don't think what your DIL did was rude.  I do think it's rude not to be thankful, but what I think doesn't matter.  You have the situation you have...and all that matters is what you do about it.  You can lower your expectations, you can ask your DIL to meet your expectations, or you can walk away.  But in so many instances, I think we all go along wanting things to be a certain way and being sad when they're not, and then doing it all over again instead of trying to stop the cycle. 

I get that there's not a law that says she has to thank you and that you just think it would be nice if she did, or if she considered you at the holidays, etc.  but that you expect her to.  But all this also boils down to what those expectations are.  You expect her to consider you.  She may feel that by showing up (even though they are full and tired) she has made an effort to see you.  And therefore she may feel she's meeting the "visit DH's family" expectation even though it's not meeting yours. 

I do think you're getting the short end of the stick.  But I also think that until you make your feelings known and start putting yourself first, you're going to keep getting the short end of the stick.  If you don't want to change the time for Thanksgiving dinner, then don't.  Eat it, eat it with the friends your DIL doesn't like, and let them come for dessert.  Your DIL is looking out for her happiness and she's getting it.  It's time for you to look out for your own.  And if your happiness is tied to her doing something you know you can't get her to do, then you need to find a way to break that tie. 

And I totally get that if you start doing this, you'll lose things with your son.  He won't eat Thanksgiving with you because it started at noon and he was at his IL's house.  But right now, you're not really getting to do that anyway.  And it doesn't have to be a big "You won't come when we want you to so we're just going to eat without you, you meanies" type of thing.  Just call them and say that Thanksgiving will be at noon.  And when they say they can't be there till 2, you tell them that's fine, you're going to start at noon and they can join you for dessert and coffee.  And then do it.  Or do something else if that would make you happier.  But it's time to focus on what will make Pent happy.  And the first step is removing the expectations you place on others.  Because if they're not met, you're sad.  The only person you can expect to make you happy is yourself.  Now start letting her :).

cremebrulee

April 16, 2010, 10:38:42 AM #28 Last Edit: April 16, 2010, 10:42:02 AM by cremebrulee
QuoteBirdy

Funny expectations is one of the biggest problems I have with my MIL.

DH was married before.  He is catholic, his ex-wife was Jewish.  The only holidays they spent with her parents was Thanksgiving.  Christmas eve, Christmas day & Easter were always spent with his parents.

When I came into the picture although not catholic yet (I converted) I also celebrated those holidays.

I have been with my DH for over 10 years and have only had 2 christmas celebrations in my house.  One being that when I was pregnant with DD I felll on Christmas eve and the doctor said no traveling - rest and the other being a couple years later when I delivered my twin boys in the middle of december.

My MIL expectations are that Christmas is her holiday.  She expects us to travel to see them christmas morning.  It is much much harder now that I have 3 children under 3.  They live over 3 hours away from us.

She also had expectations that Easter was her holiday - but because both my DH & were heavy involved in our church and helped out with the RCIA process at the Easter Vigil that wasn't going to happen.   We are no longer invovled because of the children and now her expectations are again we should be there for Easter.

Her expectations are that this is how it was with ex-wife so this is how it was going to be with us.  She also seems to forget that I also have a family.   

This is one of our biggest issues of conflict.

We have tried to offer different solutions and game plans and we are always meet with resitance. 

It is not the fact that we don't want to see them or celebrate with them, but Christmas is about the kids and I don't feel like it is fair to wake them up at 5 am to rush them through their presents from Santa and then throw them in a car for a 3 hour trip to Grandma's. 

Some of my issues I know are with my DH as I feel like he should just step up to his mom and tell her that he wants to stay home and celebrate with his family and that we can see them later in the week or such.  But he doesn't even though he wants to.  He doesn't want to tell them how he feels because he is afraid of upsetting her.

I have already figured out how I am going to handle it when my kids get married and have families.  My expectations will be to have NONE and to simply to ask my children how they want to plan it and work around their schedules.

Geeze, I am so so sorry, his mother has no idea the damage she did to herself....how utterly selfish?  Talk about pride?  I bet to this day she is sorry she said that, she may not say it openly, but inside, it must be killing her.

As far as the nasty messages...I'm sorry to say this, however, it doesn't sound like she is going to change...."That person you live with"????? Give me a break....?  Who does she think she is? 

It sounds to me like you've been very forgiving about all of this...I know it hurts....but you must understand, it isn't you..it's anyone who would have married your husband...and by the way...your husband sounds like he has made a stand...I'm wondering is she was a real bear while he was growing up. 

and by the way, through all of this, you don't sound bitter at all and have every right to be.


cremebrulee

our mother always raised us to never ever not say thank you...we either sent a thank you note, or we called and said thank you, no matter how small the gift was....it was polite and what you do...she used to say, if that person took the time to remember you, it doesn't matter how bad the gift might be in your eyes...that person went to the trouble to purchase it and give it to you...

there fore, you say thank you....

However, my DIL wasn't big on that at all....
and I to wondered if they got the gift, or she probably wasn't saying thank you, b/c she hated me....LOL, wasn't true...it just isn't something she was taught to do, now us, it was drilled into....

now, I don't expect anything....and if she calls even all the better, if not, so be it...it's not because she hates me, and I can't make her do what isn't in her to do....she has got to want to do it, or it isn't real or her....