How Can We All Understand Eachother Peacefully?

[cocobars]

I really would like that too.

[cremebrulee]

I'm not suggesting that anyone leave.  I'm suggesting that we have some respect and compassion for eachother.  This isn't about me, but about this site.  I don't believe it has anything to do with me leaving or how many times you have counted.  Yes, I left and took some well deserved breathers.  It may not be the last time...

Anyway, getting back to the purpose of this post, I feel it's important to hear everyone's feelings (everyone).  I also feel that if we are all trying, then we will get there.  I'm not expecting everything to be rosey all the time, but I do see that as a "new site called Wise Women Unite" we have to grow a little more as a group.  There will always be women who will be stuck in places that they need to be in, but what I would like to see is that the other women are allowed to grow and expand too!  That means everyone.  It isn't about me.

I guess what I'm asking is, what would it take for everyone here to accept all of the perceptions we have now as a group?  Even the ones we are not comfortable delving into?

No coco, I didn't say you suggested that anyone leave, and yes, it is about you, it must be or you wouldn't have posted this thread....and yes it does have to do with you leaving...when you leave, you always post something about that your leaving, your not welcome here, or something to that effect...then when you come back, you bring up what the reason was for your leaving...you had a disagreement with another member, that's all, nothing more...so why leave?  Why not stick it out...we need you here, we need everyone here...to make a team...and it is so important to work together as team members who are going to disagree once in a while. 

Suppose, I have a problem again, and I don't understand something your wrote, and if I write you and ask you agin, is it me, or are you upset with me?  Are you going to get all upset again and leave, b/c you think I'm saying your not welcome here?  I want to be your friend coco...not someone who is going to worry about upseting you, and you leave...or others leave, b/c I might type out something that you take as an insult, but isn't meant that way....this is about you coco, and I don't know what you mean by the rest of your post, as I don't understand it...I am asking if we can just learn from this thread and go forward, and drop all of this...I don't believe this forum is any more negative then when it first opened...I think it is wonderful, as are all the women here, including you.  Coco, you are an asset to this forum...you are part of the whole...without you, it is not...without Chickie, it is not...we are all a team...however, we all view things differently and we're all going to have to understand, you don't quit and walk out b/c someone challenges you or asks you why your posts to me, seem so negative....

I just think to bring this all up stirs people up, makes them feel uneasy and adds more fuel to the fire....?  Maybe I'm wrong...sheesh, I have surely misread a lot of things, however, do you really think it's important to stir up the pot again....?  Or, would it be better to just let some of this stuff go, and move on?  And I'm asking you cocoa, b/c I really am having a problem understanding the reasons for all of this, and would like to discuss it...



Just my thoughts
Respectfully
Creme

[cremebrulee]

This site is too precious to lose. I think we all need to see the readers here as human beings just like us with legitimate feelings & issues. We need to use a polite and kind tone when addressing each other.

Thank you so much Pen.  That's the thing that I agree with so much.  I hate to see this site being so negative.  Can't we "strive" to be understanding toward all our members here?  We are all mothers.  That is a commonality we all share and a very loving and respectful one too. 

This site has changed and evolved into what it is now and I felt we were laying an understanding foundation.  We were a MIL site.  Luise changed the name of this site because she saw the evolution taking place and believed it was a very wise direction.  I agree with that and I was proud to see the "very wise" change.  I left because I felt I was being unfairly attacked and blamed for things that "were not me."  I do believe this is still a site for MIL's, but we have added DIL's, FIL's and even Martians (stole that from you clover!) to our group.  I see that as an expansion of who we were, and something to be proud of.  Progress... This is where I felt we were better, different from the other site, and most of the time (at least for me) I find when I stop looking for trouble, it escapes me.  When I change my view (I call it changing my mind) and begin striving to see everyone in a positive and accepting way, I become more accepting in their eyes.  And when I really try to understand someone, it usually works.  Amazing...

We have something offered that no other site has - MIL's and DIL's who can all come together and discuss their views respectfully and caringly.  I believe that can be a solid foundation.  "The other site" does have some women there who are confrontational with MIL's.  But we have the reverse side of the coin.  If all the women at WWU found a common ground and addressed eachother with nothing more than the "effort" of respect and understanding, we would be much more ahead of the e-world, and I believe we would have the safe and understanding place we once did, only with more perspectives and views to understand.  To me that means someone, somewhere is going to have the perspective that is helpful to me!  And what a miracle that is. The other site does portray bad pictures and words in association with MIL's.  I would ask everyone on  WWU why on earth we would want to become those horrible things they portray?  Aren't we claiming we are better because of our understanding and compassion?  I'm somewhere in the middle here and not sure anymore that I lean on any side except the side of being human.  Yes that's it - I am on the side of human beings. 

Everyone is entitled to their opinions, but cant' we strive to be positive and caring with our responses?  Telling me I don't have problems because I have a daughter is disrespectful to me, and I took that as a slap.  Especially in light of the problems I've had with her.  More women are coming through with daughter's.  Why are so many writing PM's to me instead of posting?

I don't want this to be a site for "Just mother's of sons," or Just mother's who don't want DIL's around so they can vent.  I thought we outgrew that?  Did we?  Can we invite DIL's or mother's of daughter's sincerely and with honesty? 

I'm sorry this is so long winded.  What I'm trying to say is that we need everyone here and disrepecting eachother, backbiting or steering through PM's isn't helping us as the support group we claim to be.  It is hindering our growth as a whole.  Can we make an agreement to say "ONLY" positive things in our replies?  If we don't agree with someone, skip that topic and move to the next.  It's not as if we don't have enough things here to discuss, but we have everyone here that we love and don't want to hurt, right?

Coco, what may be a negative reply to you, might be a positive respond to someone else....what you have viewed in the past as negative, to me, was little stuff, real little stuff...and I'm using this as an example...not saying this to hurt you...we can only be productive if we're allowed to speak our true hearts...and sometimes our true hears ar not always going to be what you want to hear...sorry, but you cannot dictate to others how to think and feel....what you view as backbiting, and disrespect is merely someone expressing they're thoughts...no one is always going to agree with you 100% and if this is the case, then how will we ever learn...this is not just a group of MIL's but also DIL's who are just as important to our learning process...they have feelings and hearts to, and just b/c we are older then them, doesn't mean we know it all...we don't and never will...we will learn until the day we die....and If I can learn something from a DIL's perspective that might be a little bity when she says it, but is going to help me in the future, understand my DIL better, well, I may not like it, however, if I think about it seriously consider her thoughts, I might find out, she was right...just because I'm older, doesn't make me wiser....

[Laila9]

Sorry to intrude but my impression was that Coco is asking for ideas of how we can all get along peacefully after the events of yesterday - not about why she left.

I have to agree with Doormat right now I'm afraid!  Coco isn't stirring any pot - the only person with a big wooden spoon was Chickie! And I think she needs to own what she did and apologise for it properly without trying to excuse it and make herself the victim (as she did in her "i am sorry" post).  Then it should all be forgiven and forgotten with noone leaving! As long as everyone realises what happened was wrong and it won't happen again and spoil LV's hard work in creating this beautiful forum.

We all need to speak politely to and about each other - even about the DILs on the other site.  I too have lurked over there and while some posts seem over the top - some of them seem like very nice women who are struggling to cope with impossible MILs (and there are bad MILs as much as DILs).  There's no need to go over there and poke the wounded DILs so nastily with a stick and expect them not to react badly to it...it's cruel and wrong.

Now I'm not a MIL - I'm a DIL.  But in my family I have a very over dramatic mother and an equally over dramatic SIL - their relationship is dreadful! I try my best to get them both to speak and get along but they won't.  Both are determined to cause friction and put my brother in the middle.  They are both equally at fault in their actions....so I can see the MIL side as I see how impossible and controlling my SIL is and how it hurts my mom! 

And I do truly agree with the idea of "if you don't like what's been posted then don't reply!".  Although if you don't like what's posted but would like to ask respectfully why the other person feels that way then I see no problem....you can't beat a healthy debate but there's no need for snide digs at each other.

Without politeness and healthy debate/discussion then this board cannot grow into the family that LV hopes we can become - of MILs, DILs, FILs (and possibly even my poor brother - I would like to recommend this site to him as it may be refreshing to hear a "son in the middles" views)

Respectfully

Lola

**Editted to add* If we know something offends others e.g.: the "all DILs hate MILs" thing mentioned earlier then I think each of us should make an extra effort to stop saying those phrases that offend in the hopes of creating harmony.  Surely it's worth spending a little more time thinking of others and trying not to offend!

[Pen]

Already I've read some statements  in this thread that sound angry...I don't think there's any need to take that tone here, since a lot of our drama comes from emotional reactions to statements that sound belittling or like finger-pointing. I hesitate to quote them, but if you read back from Coco's initial post maybe you'll see what I mean. Words and tone do matter here, since we don't have the benefit of facial expressions or body language to help with communication.

When I was preparing to visit a relative overseas, I was told to leave my American sarcasm and bluntness at home since the country I would be visiting didn't "get it" and people would think I was angry all the time. I was amused at first, because I'd never thought about it - I love sarcasm (Seinfeld, for example, which they didn't appreciate) and didn't think it was a big deal. What I learned from my experience overseas was a nicer way to communicate, but it wasn't as easy as it sounds - I had to really watch the tone of everything I said at first. Maybe we need to try this here?

Blaming one person's actions for this whole mess is counter-productive. I think we all agree that if we follow Luise's guidelines this site will be the special, non-bashing, supportive place we want it to be. We're all in pain here; can we not have some compassion? Also, as Luise has said many times, this is not the place to diagnose and treat those we deem in need. If someone is spinning his or wheels, so be it...offer support, kind nudges perhaps, and let it go. They will progress at their own pace, perhaps two-steps forward and one back, but that's OK and none of our business. I often sense judgement from some posters regarding another's needs/lack of progress or insight; is there a kinder way to lend support?

Luise and Kirk would have to agree to this before implementing it, of course: If we sense it going off the rails, perhaps we can gently nudge it back on with a silly safe word like 'pickles' or 'jitterbug' as a reminder to keep it civil and non-judgemental. Just a thought

[cremebrulee]

Sorry to intrude but my impression was that Coco is asking for ideas of how we can all get along peacefully after the events of yesterday - not about why she left.

I have to agree with Doormat right now I'm afraid!  Coco isn't stirring any pot - the only person with a big wooden spoon was Chickie! And I think she needs to own what she did and apologise for it properly without trying to excuse it and make herself the victim (as she did in her "i am sorry" post).  Then it should all be forgiven and forgotten with noone leaving! As long as everyone realises what happened was wrong and it won't happen again and spoil LV's hard work in creating this beautiful forum.

We all need to speak politely to and about each other - even about the DILs on the other site.  I too have lurked over there and while some posts seem over the top - some of them seem like very nice women who are struggling to cope with impossible MILs (and there are bad MILs as much as DILs).  There's no need to go over there and poke the wounded DILs so nastily with a stick and expect them not to react badly to it...it's cruel and wrong.

Now I'm not a MIL - I'm a DIL.  But in my family I have a very over dramatic mother and an equally over dramatic SIL - their relationship is dreadful! I try my best to get them both to speak and get along but they won't.  Both are determined to cause friction and put my brother in the middle.  They are both equally at fault in their actions....so I can see the MIL side as I see how impossible and controlling my SIL is and how it hurts my mom! 

And I do truly agree with the idea of "if you don't like what's been posted then don't reply!".  Although if you don't like what's posted but would like to ask respectfully why the other person feels that way then I see no problem....you can't beat a healthy debate but there's no need for snide digs at each other.

Without politeness and healthy debate/discussion then this board cannot grow into the family that LV hopes we can become - of MILs, DILs, FILs (and possibly even my poor brother - I would like to recommend this site to him as it may be refreshing to hear a "son in the middles" views)

Respectfully

Lola

**Editted to add* If we know something offends others e.g.: the "all DILs hate MILs" thing mentioned earlier then I think each of us should make an extra effort to stop saying those phrases that offend in the hopes of creating harmony.  Surely it's worth spending a little more time thinking of others and trying not to offend!

Thank you Lola....while I understand, that coco is asking for ideas how we can all get along peacefully, that was the point of my posts, then I do understand...

We are not all going to agree 100% of the time, does that mean we are not getting along?  Because we disagree, because we're now having this discussion, is someone going to leave?  that is my point...Lola, sometime, somewhere, in the future of this forum, someone is going to post something that might hurt you, me or coco...so what do we do?  Do we make a thread like this which is going to divide people, or do we ignore it and move forward together?  Life is not perfect, and neither are people...and I'm going to be honest here...coco is one of the biggest assets to this forum, however, if someone writes what she doesn't like, she cannot let it get her upset, to the point of leaving...you cannot and never will dictate to people how to think and feel, sometimes people get upset and say things they don't mean...and like myself, get caught up in the moment and start pounding out words that are very direct and honest, are people going to get angry with me, for doing so?  Because I'm passionate about my feelings...like everyone else?  I just hope and pray, you all understand, I'm not trying to start trouble or fight coco, what I'm trying to do, is explain, that there are going to be times, when we do disagree, and someone will get hurt, however, we don't storm off after posting something about the situation in anger and not come back for a few days, and then come back and start it all over again...like this thread...b/c there is always someone who will disagree and today I disagree with coco...sorry, coco, but I do...
I don not think or never thought this forum was negative...I think it has always been very productive and helpful to me....and I loved this place...and all the woman here....

[cremebrulee]

Coco
I believe the PM you are referencing was lecturing me for expressing a difference in my view - because it didn't align with what you had said.  I won't go into the jest of what was said in those posts here, but this is exactly what I'm talking about. 

coco, I was not lecturing you, in that DM, and I am very sorry you took it that way...I said that I noticed of late in the last few posts I made, you seemed to be leaving negative posts, or taking my post negatively and I was wondering if I had done or said someting to upset you, ..I asked you if in fact, If I might be wrong...and asked if you would let me know...that maybe I was taking it wrong???

Then you posted a thread stating that you were being told that you were negative and not not welcome here?

I'm sorry but I was not lecturing you, I was asking you to correspond with me, and that perhaps I was reading you wrong, I even said, am I? 

My personal opinion is this...

if we all want to get along, I believe we should stop with these posts about any member...I consider us all sisters, and yes, sometimes we're going to make mistakes and sometimes we're going to disagree and have some problems, that what relationships are....

my personal opinion, and I could be wrong, if there is a problem that occurs, like this, I don't believe it should be made public, but kept between that poster and the owner or the site and/or the monitor of the website...or all three people involved...but to call attention, to others like this is wrong, or to start threads like this is to me, only adding fuel to the fire.

I'm sorry, I don't mean to offend anyone, or hurt anyone...
Yes, Chickie made a mistake...and I will agree with most of your posts on the points that you made...several of us have asked her to stop...but to do this, seems to me, like ganging up on her...while I understand your opinions, and sympathize...to start a thread like this is to me, so wrong and well...very hurtful...I would really really be destroyed if someone did this to me...I just don't think it's right...we're all at one time or another going to make mistakes, some of us learn, some don't...however, whose is to say, which one of our mistakes was worse then the other? 

I just think this is like a pac chasing down prey...sorry ladies, but I do...it makes me very sad...

 

[cocobars]

A concern has been expressed.  I think the best way forward is to acknowledge it and undertake to try and ensure it doesn't continue. 

Those who ignore history are bound to repeat it, so they say and to the best of my experience, the saying is true.  We now have an opportunity to reset and to carry on to participate in Luise's vision of what this forum should be.  I would like to do that and if having a little discussion about how we best set about it is the way to achieve that vision, I'm happy to participate.

I would like to do that - "reset."  I've gotten concens from MIL's and DIL's alike and it seems to me that we are all still here for the same reasons.  We seem to all have this common link - desire and compassion.  I don't think it was just the DIL's who were disrespected here, but I also understand some MIL's were too.  The comment was made to me that a MIL wanted to take yesterday back.  She said "we can't take it back."  Maybe not, but we can "reset" and move on as Postscript said in this post.  I believe that was a wise thought that was worded in different ways by both a MIL and a DIL.  I would like to think it's wise AND possible.

I would like to do that.  I think it's possible to "reset."  Can we discuss what would be necessary in our opinions to recreate some respect for us here?  All of us?  How can we move on without losing members on any level and become that wonderful and positive place for wise women to come and be welcomed again?

Is there a way that you can think of that everyone can accept our differences in a more positive way?

Sending out warm thoughts and hopes...  I hope you feel them.

[cocobars]

Creme, I believe we are both human and I didn't mean to upset you.  I can see that in my own humaness, I misunderstood your PM's.  I believe after reading all these, that we need to work on how we speak to eachother.  I'm not blaming you.  I'm not trying to throw blame anywhere except that we are all human and make these mistakes.  We handle them in different ways.  I go take a break.  Some of the women here stick it out and argue it out.  We're all different and I just think we need to find a way to accept that and respect eachother as much as we can.

Do I think it won't happen again?  No.  It most likely will, but can we all regroup and try to reset as Postscript and another MIL said?  We can't take things back, but we can work on not repeating them.  I will promise you that if I get another message that I feel is hurtful, then I will "ASK" first.  I hope you will take this as an apology from me for misunderstanding, and help us here.  I believe we are all wanting to erase yesterday.  Can we try?

Sending you hugs and I hope you do feel them very much!

[cocobars]

Creme, this isn't a thread directed at anything except to find a new place to accept and respect eachother.  That's all.  I didn't start this to tear up anyone else.  The title is "how can we all understand eachother peacefully."  It was written out of respect for the fact that everyone here wants this site to work and may have input to help us all.

I didn't mean this thread any other way.  I understand your statement completely when you stated, "to start a thread like this is to me, so wrong and well...very hurtful...I would really really be destroyed if someone did this to me..."  I was hurt very deeply by disregard, and two wrongs don't make a right so for that I'm sorry.  Rather than rehash the same things I just want to find a common place for all of us to start over.  Is that possible? 

[cocobars]

I wanted to include another comment by Creme:

"I just don't think it's right...we're all at one time or another going to make mistakes, some of us learn, some don't...however, whose is to say, which one of our mistakes was worse then the other? 

I just think this is like a pac chasing down prey...sorry ladies, but I do...it makes me very sad..."

And yes it makes me sad too.  This is no more right than chasing down the DIL's that I've seen.  She did make a mistake and I hope we can leave it at that.  I would hate to think about what would happen if people remembered me for some of my great blunders.  Chickie is in counselling.  I believe she is doing everything she can and just can't see holding each mistake above her head...

[dirtyglassgrl]

Chickie did a stupid thing, should be grounded,fired, arrested and put in jail?  No.  I have done stupider things in my time and will probably keep right on going.  I do not have a right to hang anything over anyones heads.  As far as the board goes, I will still come back I have enjoyed reading/posting for the past few days here and I will continue.  If other people are upset perhaps they have a right to be.  Live and let live.  If someone has done something that is their issue and if others do not like thier own issue.  No one has cussed her out or asked her to leave, they are stating how they feel just like everyone else does on this board.  This is a place for everyone as far as I know.  Not everyone has to agree all the time. 

[Pen]

So we agree that we won't always agree but that we will treat each other with kindness and compassion?

[Postscript]

Penstamen I think that's a great foundation.  There are going to be times where we are not going to agree, I think on some occasions we will have to agree to disagree.

Our lives are all different, we are from different places and different cultures in some cases.  I also think we need to embrace our differences too.

[cocobars]

And yes, I do believe we can treat eachother with kindness and compassion, and agree to disagree.  Understanding someone else's view doesn't always mean I agree with it, but I do like to know where they are coming from and try to understand.  I hope others will do that for me too.