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Things Never Stay the Same

Started by cremebrulee, March 26, 2010, 11:02:16 AM

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cocobars

Well, Creme - I'm sorry.  I did misunderstand what you were talking about.  I thought you wanted to tell all of us what we needed to be doing and this post doesn't say that at all!  I believe your statements above are reasonable and yes, I would like to be part of your discussion if you will forgive my ignorance at the first posts, and allow me to read and comment with all of you.

I believe brainstorming is a healthy thing to be doing and with the amount of differing views here, this brainstorming post should be very constructive. 

If you forgive me...


cremebrulee

March 28, 2010, 05:40:34 AM #31 Last Edit: March 28, 2010, 06:16:59 AM by cremebrulee
no forgiven ness needed cocoa.....thank you for coming back...as I explained before, due to the MS, I know what I'm trying to say, it's all up there, however, it doesn't always come out right in written words for me....and people do take offense to my writings, or, don't understand what I'm trying to say...and I just can't get it out at times...plus, this is a sensitive subject, and as I explained before, one has to be ready to forgive and forget to want to move forward and learn from they're experiences...this thread wouldn't be for everyone...and 2 years ago, I wouldn't have been ready to explore an issue like this...there were those who suggested reasons of why my DIL was acting the way she was...and I wasn't ready to let go of the blame and anger....but then something happened, thru this forum and reading others, and I decided, I wanted to be a better MIL....I didn't want things to remain as they were, I was ready to explore her feelings, and listen, without getting defensive...I wanted to love her, and what hurt the most was the rejection...and not being able to see them....so, in my soul, of souls, I knew, I had to be the one to change...and I also kept saying, "There has to be a lot for me to learn from this, otherwise, it wouldn't be happening..."

And I'm not going to tell anyone what they should be doing...the only thing I can do is share my feelings and experiences....you can't dictate to people and tell them when it's time tostop hurting and move forward...people did that to me....I knew they were right, but I didn't know how to get there...I wasn't ready...then one day, it happened...and my whole attitude changed...I'd say over and over again, I don't like the person I've become because of this, and gradually over time, a little voice inside, kept saying to me, "Then change it!"  And I started to walk out into the light....

So, no, I won't dictate to anyone what they should be doing...you've gotta want it so bad you can taste it...I was tired of hurting...tired of the pain, tired of anger and pointing fingers...

Everyone's situation is different....and not everyone can resolve problems with stubborn people...people who are argumentative by nature...people who always need to be right...people who are self imposed or bullies...people who are mentally challenged with narcissistic behavor, or other mentally dysfunctional people....and there are a lot of them out there...

This thread should really die...b/c I don't feel I can help anyone...really...I remember, when I was going thru it...I didn't want someone to even suggest a solution...I wanted to cry about it, b/c the pain of it was so sever...I wasn't able to consider my son's feelings or  hers...I was hurting and that is all I knew...

I realized, I had a hard life...a lot of hard knocks...some have been thru a lot worse,however, I know these hard knocks left behind bagage, and one thing I knew is, I'm a very sensitive person...or used to be...and I did take peoples reactions wrong....one thing I've learned, is, just because someone doesn't act like I think they should act, doesn't mean they're wrong...I learned that we all have our own cultures...however, when someone disagreed with me, oh my God, I felt like they were stating I was wrong....they were not, they were simply sharing they're feelings with me, and how they beleived...and when I learned to stop thinking that way, I started to learn...from them..as well as, I started to listen...and not takes things as a personal attack against my culture or beliefs...

I don't want to hurt anyone, I am no body, just a woman, not a counselor, and I might do more harm then good, and this thread proves it....some really got upset with me, because they misunderstood my intentions...so, Coco...I really don't think this thread should go any further...actually...it was a very bad idea....

and to all who read, these were my feelings, I'm not suggesting anyone eles feels the same way or is the same as me...I am simply sharing with friends, who I am, and how I was...it's all I know...

I can only share with you my personality, who I was at the time, and am now...and all I can say is, I didn't like who I was, I'm not suggesting anyone here is like me...we all address situations differently, we all react differently, we are all unique in our own being....maybe that is what our paths are and meant to be...? I just simply didn't like where I was...and knew my own choices were at times clouded by that baggage and I knew my DIL had it pretty rough as a child to...and held onto that understanding and compassion...it's the rejection which tore me apart...but in the same, I was rejecting her, so I know she had to be hurting to, and I can't imagine what my poor son was going thru...all he wanted was for us to accept each other...all he wasted was peace...

one thing which really hurts, is the fact that some of you here, feel, I'm trying to tell you what you should be doing, then, in that case, I'm not doing anyone any bit of good...and I need to rethink, and consider everyone else's feelings here...

that is not a good thing, and I'm not doing anyone any good....not one bit....so, my intention to help, was totally misunderstood...and the last thing I want to do is hurt anyone...I can only express what I did, who I was, what I felt, and hope that from my testimoy, someone might be able to gain something from it...however, I see now I was wrong...b/c I know there are others here coca who felt the same way you did...and I apologize...






cocobars

Hi Creme,

I disagree about this thread dying.  I think it's a constructive thread and worth exploring, now that I understand the concept.  I agree, it's not for everyone, but I believe it's good for the women who are ready!  And, even if some are not ready, they can read everyone's thoughts and relate to what's there for them in their own time. 

I do understand your problem with wording and I may not have MS, but I do overstate myself at times and upset people as well.  I try to keep on top of my own wording, because one thing I've learned is that when I say something that may hurt or insult someone else, I can't always take that back.  So I understand completely where you're coming from there, but have nothing to blame my problem on, other than ignorance - not thinking about how I am saying things might be taken before it is said.  One of the things about the women here I've noticed is that we all seem to make efforts to "understand," which I believe is important.  Understanding where someone else is coming from to me is the key to the kind of work we have to do in this life here.  I can make myself understood, but it's not always easy to understand someone else.  So many things can be miscontrued.  So I try to concentrate on "understanding" too.  They are both important in my case, because of my wording, and maybe in your case too.  Just different reasons why that is.

As far as this thread dying because you say you don't believe you can help anyone goes, I also think (and maybe I'm wrong) that by getting so many different views (negative and positive), our thinking becomes more open to possibilities, without even realizing it.  We begin to see things in other women's eyes as well as from where we stand.  The fact that this happens makes room for change.  It's just my opinion and I don't expect everyone to agree with that.

Oh, and by the way, I'm just a nobody too!  I was somebody once.  I'm not really sure I want to go back and revisit that because of the lessons I learned and the fact that it almost took my life.  But being nobody gives me much more room to be myself!  So what you are telling me by stating you are nobody, is that your are real!  What we see is what we get.  I think that means you're really someone special who is truly sharing who you are, not who someone has told you to be.  Yep!

As far as you saying you need to re-think everyone's feelings, I agree.  I have to do that too, and it's not easy - sometimes I fail, but I'm still here and trying.  So are you.  I believe this wonderful place allows us to be human (and to me that's all part of it).  If we don't give up and go back in to give it another shot (as you did here with Hope's post), then so much can be gained!

I think it's good that you didn't take offense and are still back in here plugging away!  You're a much stronger human being for it.  So many people woud just give up, but you're showing determination to understand everyone here.  I realize you want to be understood, and that's all part of it.  The fact that you could understand and clarify is very important Creme,  I think you need to give yourself more credit there!

I see no need for your apology and feel the fact that I misunderstood deserved the apology.  HAHAHA!  Like I said, different views...

Hugging you and happy you accepted...


2chickiebaby

Creme,
I understand better what you're saying and in many ways, I think your DIL is a much nicer person than mine is.  Both of them.  I think you're very blessed in so many ways.

Thank you for your insight and your ability to understand, take ownership and resolve.  I think if you have willing participants, it's not as hard as when you don't.

We've both been struggling for years with DILs who are difficult to say the least.  Mine is, at least one of them, is the most self absorbed person I know.  Even villianous enough to drive out all who she has used over the years.  It's hard to reach someone when their heart is that hard. If she can't use you, you're out.  If you need the slightest thing, she's never there.  If our son was personally asked to show compassion towards us, he'd need to check with her first to see if it was okay.  Boy, what a deal that is.  I can't wrap my head around it.  If it wasn't okay with her, it would not be done.  This hospital thing for me was a wake up call to let me see that it's hopeless for us.  We needed our son and he was not there. 

I guess I'll keep trying but self-preservation has to come into play at some point for me.  I am overjoyed at your re-union and new relationship just around the corner. 

cocobars

I agree with you Chickie.  I see your situation as so different in so many ways.  Where Creme found that she had to reach that place where she was "willing," I believe your DIL's have to reach that place for you.  I believe from what I know of you that you would forgive and work for a healthy relationship if given a chance.  I just believe you are not being given that chance.  I'm not saying that to hurt you and I hope it doesn't.  It's just my own observations from seeing and listening to both of you.

I hope some day you have that opportunity.  There is always a place inside of me that doesn't give up and sometimes I am surprised in a good way.  I hope this will work itself out for you, but I believe the ball is in DIL's court.

Hoping for change...  Hugging your neck!

Pen

I'm in tears here, can barely see the screen. We were shown yesterday, like Chickie, how things are and how they are likely to remain. Previously, DS had been nice to us even when DIL was being rude. Yesterday we saw how the brainwashing had been completed; it was awkward and awful. We were treated like an annoying duty, or an embarrassment, that had to be suffered through, even DDD, which breaks my heart. Unless DIL sees a reason to participate in building a relationship, and DS has to give her one, we're doomed. He's drunk the kool-aid, and I'm devastated.

Creme, I really need some of your "light." I'm afraid to walk towards it, afraid not to...but something has to change because I can't go through this anymore just to see my son. I'm sobbing now, sorry guys.
Respect ... is appreciation of the separateness of the other person, of the ways in which he or she is unique.
-- Annie Gottlieb

cremebrulee

Quote from: penstamen on March 28, 2010, 07:55:38 AM
I'm in tears here, can barely see the screen. We were shown yesterday, like Chickie, how things are and how they are likely to remain. Previously, DS had been nice to us even when DIL was being rude. Yesterday we saw how the brainwashing had been completed; it was awkward and awful. We were treated like an annoying duty, or an embarrassment, that had to be suffered through, even DDD, which breaks my heart. Unless DIL sees a reason to participate in building a relationship, and DS has to give her one, we're doomed. He's drunk the kool-aid, and I'm devastated.

Creme, I really need some of your "light." I'm afraid to walk towards it, afraid not to...but something has to change because I can't go through this anymore just to see my son. I'm sobbing now, sorry guys.


Pen, I'm hugging you...

Can you tell what happened or are you to  upset? 

It's ok,  if you need some time...

2chickiebaby

Pen!!  My heart is broken for you!!!!! :'(

Pen

Thank you...I've got to get a grip. DDD and DH need me. I'm feeling the hugs and they really do help! Love you guys.
Respect ... is appreciation of the separateness of the other person, of the ways in which he or she is unique.
-- Annie Gottlieb

cremebrulee

Quote from: penstamen on March 28, 2010, 09:01:26 AM
Thank you...I've got to get a grip. DDD and DH need me. I'm feeling the hugs and they really do help! Love you guys.

sometimes it's very difficult to get a grip when you hurt so much....please know we're all here for you if you need to vent, talk, yell, cry, whatever...we're all sisters....

Love you
Creme

Hope

Pen,
I can hardly see the screen either.  My heart goes out to you.  It's just so confusing - how, why????  We love you and I think I can speak for all of us - a big group hug is yours.

cocobars

Quote from: penstamen on March 28, 2010, 07:55:38 AM
I'm in tears here, can barely see the screen. We were shown yesterday, like Chickie, how things are and how they are likely to remain. Previously, DS had been nice to us even when DIL was being rude. Yesterday we saw how the brainwashing had been completed; it was awkward and awful. We were treated like an annoying duty, or an embarrassment, that had to be suffered through, even DDD, which breaks my heart. Unless DIL sees a reason to participate in building a relationship, and DS has to give her one, we're doomed. He's drunk the kool-aid, and I'm devastated.

Creme, I really need some of your "light." I'm afraid to walk towards it, afraid not to...but something has to change because I can't go through this anymore just to see my son. I'm sobbing now, sorry guys.
Pen, I'm so sorry!  I had such hopes for you!  This is heartbreaking to hear!  Please come back and make a post so we can all find you and give you some much needed hugs and understanding!  I know this hurts and I hate hearing that you are so devastated.  I don't know what to say over this!  Just that I love you and you are so much better than the treatment you are getting! 

Did I ever tell you that you were one of the reasons I stayed in this forum.  I think everyone knows about Chickie, but Pen, you have such a big heart!  You were right there supporting me and loving me in spite of the fact that I was a total stranger, and I noticed that you replied to my posts, every one of them (from what I remember of you!).  You still reply to all my posts in a postive and caring way.  Please take care Pen and know in your heart that this behavior is beneath you!  Money doesn't buy class.  I'm sorry if that statement upsets anyone, but it is just what I believe.  Class is something that includes compassion and interest for everyone.  I don't believe class is about looks or money, but is something that shines from the inside.   This is what you've done for me and shown me all these months.  Please understand that I'm being honest.  What you see is what you get with me and I won't lie, but I will tell you what I see.

I see a wonderful woman with so much class and compassion being treated as if she's underserving.  Don't listen to it.  I hope you see yourself from others eyes here, because I know that this would get me down if it were me.   Step back and just read the other responses, and know that this is who you are!

Sending you big hugs!  LOTS of love, and keeping you in my thoughts and prayers! :'(

2chickiebaby

Pen, I can tell you, this takes the heart right out of you.  It does.  It makes you crazy....I searched for reasons for years and years nd still, it came down to pure, unadulterated selfishness on the part of my DILs (both of them) but one, the one I thought was
my friend is the worst.

They insist that the son, their husband, stand up to his Mother in front of her so she will feel superior. You can sit there and be a bump on a log, not saying one word and she has to be shown who is boss.  That's what they do.  It's their sole mission
in life.

Yes, I'm still bitter and I need to work on that.  It does nothing but hurt me.  The truth needs to get out there, though.

It will take some time for the transformation to take place...the Invasion of the Body Snatchers but just keep quiet and
don't let her have the satisfaction of knowing this hurts you.  The DILs get total joy out of making you sick. 

One of the reasons that I view other sites about hate for MILs is that the DILs can pick out the most hilarious situations to
hate us for....for instance, I'm paraphrasing:  "My MIL keeps my kids all week.  She had the nerve to ask DH to come over
and show her how to record on her DVR!!!  Why can't she do it?  She uses him for her surrogate husband!! She's a big time "N" It's my time with him!! Not the old hags time"!!!

Huh?  We're interfering just by breathing.  Pardon us for breathing.  Pardon us for living.

Pen

Hi guys, I'm still here. You are all wonderful, and I'm grateful to have a safe place to be myself. It helps to be able to talk about it, even if I can't go into a lot of detail - I'm afraid of being spotted by DIL. If that happens I'm totally gone. I had hopes too, Coco...basically DS is a good guy; he was raised with our values rather than materialistic ones, not that we ever said being successful and having nice things was wrong, just that they're things, and people should always come first. He's married into a family that believes their immediate family comes first, and then their money and material possessions. People, especially those they can't use for anything, don't even make it onto the radar. More and more DS is acting like them, although he stuck up for us at first. Our last visit with DS & DIL had all the usual awkwardness plus more snarky put-downs and rudeness by DIL and none of the good feelings from DS. He's being very distant to us and she's eating it up. Like you said Chickie, in her world we shouldn't even be breathing. Maybe this time it's all the more devastating because we had high hopes for a good outcome.
Respect ... is appreciation of the separateness of the other person, of the ways in which he or she is unique.
-- Annie Gottlieb

2chickiebaby

Quote from: penstamen on March 29, 2010, 08:14:23 AM
Hi guys, I'm still here. You are all wonderful, and I'm grateful to have a safe place to be myself. It helps to be able to talk about it, even if I can't go into a lot of detail - I'm afraid of being spotted by DIL. If that happens I'm totally gone. I had hopes too, Coco...basically DS is a good guy; he was raised with our values rather than materialistic ones, not that we ever said being successful and having nice things was wrong, just that they're things, and people should always come first. He's married into a family that believes their immediate family comes first, and then their money and material possessions. People, especially those they can't use for anything, don't even make it onto the radar. More and more DS is acting like them, although he stuck up for us at first. Our last visit with DS & DIL had all the usual awkwardness plus more snarky put-downs and rudeness by DIL and none of the good feelings from DS. He's being very distant to us and she's eating it up. Like you said Chickie, in her world we shouldn't even be breathing. Maybe this time it's all the more devastating because we had high hopes for a good outcome.

Pen, I soooo know what you're talking about!  Wish I didn't but I do...our stories are so alike.  The DIL is from a very
wealthy family. (the table whisperers who excluded all others from their conversations and no one was important except the 4 of them.)
Just about the most disgusting thing I have ever witnessed.

The DIL said, "money is all that matters"...yes, she said that.  She will use anyone she can.  I read once that when
people have no spiritual connection whatsoever, they often do this.  Money becomes their God.  She is raising her children
just like this.  So sad.  No at all the way we raised our kids.

The other brother and his wife have a rich spiritual life and money is not their God.  However, the DIL there is a bull headed
bear. I can't win with either one of them but I think with the bull headed bear, at least you know what you've got.

The "money is all there is" gal is lethal and can be cruel.  She has a friend who would lay down her life for her. This friend
wants everyone erased from my son's and DILs life but her and her husband and kids.  They have become surrogate
family members.  This friend treats us like space aliens. 

I want to give up but I keep going in like George Foreman and keep trying.  It's hopeless, though.  Any old cat could have a
better family with her kittens than I do.  And, it's all I ever wanted in this world. 

Hang in there, Pen.  The Invasion is setting in and D-Day will finish it.  Your son is only trying to keep the DIL happy right now.

I have a feeling that after the war, the effort will not have been worth it to him.