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Started by ames849, December 09, 2011, 08:26:57 am

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December 09, 2011, 08:26:57 am Last Edit: December 09, 2011, 09:02:07 am by pam1
well , miserable again ...there's a surprise! .... I must just be a gluten for punishment and there really must be something wrong with me . I know that giving them what they want to make them happy people is not really what my job is about but , I can't help it !. The only way i am happy or feel good or allow myself to feel any other pleasure ...is when my kids are happy with me ! When i gave my daughter a few bucks and she spoke to me in return i was feeling so great and then in one rant of her texting about 15 nasty texts to me cursing and all I'm back to distraught. I see all of this clearly , i just can't stop the cycle. Yesterday , DD called my ex husband and asked him if she could paint my white bedroom furniture black . That she was moving into my bedroom since I'm not there anymore. He called me and i told him absolutely not. That is my room until i say otherwise. My living with BF is too knew for me to relinquish my bedroom (safety net ). I know I shouldn't have to explain why I still want my bedroom but SS just seems to rule the roost. My ex husband told her she couldn't have my room until my BF gave me a ring ! I have never ever said that or indicated that in any way . Not to mention that my DD would feel more enraged at the thought of that. And so , that's exactly what happened . He said what he said to her and then I received 15 horrible text message from DD. cursing and saying how much she hates me and how horrible I am and how she is not waiting for me to get a ring , that's she is taking my room and painting my furniture! I didn't even reply to her but I did call the ex and had him call her back. I also prepared a text that said
" You what , If this was anyone else speaking the way you do to me or anyone else ...a boyfriend ,a girlfriend ,a husband , a wife ,or even a friend , It would be called abuse .Just because you are my daughter doesn't give you the right to abuse me .And that is what you are doing whether you realize it want to admit it. I did nothing to you and thought you were missing me as much as I was missing you but you were not.You got your Christmas list out and asked for other things you needed and it was given to you with pleasure ...then you sneak attacked me. You verbally abuse me at your will. Your purposely hurtfuland emotionally destructive towards me . I NEVER ABUSED YOU IN ANY WAY ! How could you ??/...Don't answer me , I can't take anymore really . "
I didn't send the text . I just think it will give her the empowerment to return to me another slew of nastiness. She won't ever hear what i say . no matter what it is ... I thought we could manage this speaking terms through the holidays but now i don't think so . Her Christmas shopping of a number of very expensive items has been done and i could never give my son and not her. I have no idea whats going to happen at my home when i do Christmas eve . How is she going to react to seeing my BF? ( one of her texts wished him a horrible slow death) Is he even planning on coming with me ? Should I give him the out ? I can't not do it . My son is there and he hasn't done anything wrong . Then I have issues with the dogs that are with me right now . I bring them with me for a visit with the kids on Monday's . That's when i go there to make some food for them and a little something extra for the frig. I go again Sat. mornings but my son is sleeping the whole time and DD leaves for work by Noon. by one p.m I leave. Here is the push pull !! My BF loves and wants the dogs and my kids love and want the dogs !! Of coarse so do i but I just want everyone to be happy and not upset with me.. When ever I want to leave the dogs with the kids for the weekend ,or for a week ,my BF is upset with me ... If I don't then the kids start in with me . Both of them on that issue.


December 09, 2011, 08:32:47 am #1 Last Edit: December 09, 2011, 09:02:53 am by pam1
Hi Ames, this ok?  I just copied the last message over onto this thread and we'll start over here.
People throw rocks at things that shine - Taylor Swift


Quote The only way i am happy or feel good or allow myself to feel any other pleasure ...is when my kids are happy with me !

This is tough.  If your adult daughter isn't happy with herself, then she won't be happy with anyone else.  I don't think your daughter is happy with herself.  It's not your fault. That's just who she is.   It's not yours to fix.  It's not something you can fix.  She's 21.  Like each of us as adults, her happiness is her responsibility.  So according to the above quote, then simply her being her, would have to prevent you from ever being happy.   So if I were you, I would allow myself to feel happy and good, about all the other blessings in your life, without making it contigent on someone else's happiness.  Even your kids.  Happiness doesn't feel like a choice, I know.  But I really think that upon examination, ultimately, it is. 

Something about this reminds me of the heartache not being able to get over a rejecting or using ex.  There was an old book by Robin Norwood called "Women who love too much." It was about women who decided to make their happiness contigent on rejecting men, while they were in impossible relationships (loving a married man, for example, or continuing to love someone who didn't want to be together anymore).  It's a simple light read with lots of interesting case histories and examples.  I wonder if there's some wisdom in there, that could be applied to this.


I keep coming back to having people be the way they are because that's how they're going to be. It has everything to do with them and little or nothing to do with us. We can document it but we can't change it. And we can endlessly try to make sense of the senseless. It's our choice to stay focused there or move on. Sending love...
Be kind whenever possible. It is always possible. Dalai Lama


yes , I know that book ! It was my favorite book when I was her age and I have forwarded it to many of my friends through the years ..... It seems different though with my DD. Maybe I do love them "too much" but can that even be possible ? I know that technically she is an adult but DD and myself is having trouble really believing that she is an adult. She still acts so child like when it comes to me but then again she acts spoiled and abusive also. So, which comes first . Is she just emotionally still a child and is acting this way to make me give her wants she is still asking for from me ? ......or is this just who she is and it's really not my fault that she is so unhappy. It's so tricky right ? I understand that we make our own happiness in life , I 'm just not sure how to do that yet when her harsh words make me feel like I am an inadequate mother. ( just a bad person in general)
Yes , luise , I have to keep remembering that


Yes! It's who she is and it's not your fault that she's so unhappy. Another saying that helps me a lot is: "What you think of me is none of my business." It can help me from letting others define me and then believing it. Sending more love...
Be kind whenever possible. It is always possible. Dalai Lama


I got the book the same way too!  A girlfriend gave it to me.  In turn I gave it to a few girlfriends.  "Women who love too much," isn't about "love" at all. 

I think one of the things that reminded me of it, was the ups and downs.  One example I kind of recall was a woman who was seeing a married policeman.  He'd ignore her for weeks and she'd be depressed, not leaving the house sitting by the phone.  She decided not to enjoy her life, (her twenties) in case he called or came by and wanted a sliver of her.  She didn't go out, she didn't spend time with available men, she didn't go to her family.  The phone or doorbell might ring, and depiver what she's been waiting for. She can't miss that.   Holidays would come and go and he'd spend them with his wife and children.  Then one day, out of the blue he'd pop by when he wanted a snuggle.  Hurrah!  She was so happy! He was hungry for her, he obviously missed her just as much as she missed him, he even said so! It would be different now.  He said so.  He'd have more time for her.  One day, she'd fantasize, he'd leave his wife and be with her every day.... then time passed and again, silence.  The pits. The self-deprivation. The self imposed starvation while waiting for crumbs from him. No hearty meals of life for her.  He could call!  She'd buy things to wear for him, always ready. Always putting her life and happiness on hold, to stick to the hope and fantasy of her being "enough" for him. 

You read the stories in that book and you can clearly see how many of the men are usersThey take what they can get from these women for one reason... because they can.   But each woman thinks her suffering for him is penance, or some kind of emotional investment, or will serve as proof of her worthyness and devotion.  Surely such martyrdom would eventually pay off for her.  She thinks it will pay off in long-awaited happiness.  When there's all kinds of happiness right there right then in their youthful, tender lives for them to have - but they tragically CHOOSE to pass on all of it.  This goes on for years and years.  Life passes by and they suffer for someone who does not suffer for them.   The reader can see it all, but the women can't see anything but confused suffering.  Such suffering!

You've got cute dogs - your cute dogs.  You've got a man who loves you and wants to be with you.  You've got two homes.  You're smart.  You've got lots of personality.  You've got a son who is a fine young man.  You've got many blessings, but you won't allow yourself to recognize, appreciate, savor them, until...... the person who (I am being direct here, and I apologize if it's too direct) uses and abuses you 'sees the light' about how wonderful and loving you are.   You are wonderful and loving now, and you should see it. 

Your worth as a mother, a woman, a person, is simply not measured by an abusive person's willingness to stop using and abusing you.  That's their hang up. They use and abuse because that's what they do and who they are.  Not because you didn't do your best as a mother.  You did your best.  That's all you got to give.  You gave and gave and gave.  When is Enough?  For an taker, it will never be enough.  They will take as long as they can take...because they can. 

You can say Enough.  You don't have to reject your daughter, to reject her use and abuse.  That mistreatment, that taking advantage of you, I do feel, you must reject.

(Now I'm interested in reading this book again myself!)   Have a good weekend... Love, Sassy


Another thought about the book.  The cycle.  The men would knock on the door of the "women who love too much" to use them again.  They were quite clear to their intent, as they'd come in and head right upstairs.  The women would take the men using them, as The Sign of something more and better to come.  "He's Back! (sure he's back to get something from me, but...) He's Back!"  The women would fantasize about all the things that He's Back! must mean.  It must mean he's ready for more of a relationship!  It must mean he's finally done staying away.  When all He's Back meant was what it was: he wanted something.  Once he got it, more of the same, until he wanted it again.  She rode emotions that he never gave a thought to. The cycle....


It's been a few months since I have been on . mostly because I thought I had everything under control.................not. I was so worried about Christmas ( Holidays are the worst for me ) when last I wrote . My dd was saying things to me like .. I will spit in your boyfriends face when I see him and just nasty hurtful things that she knows upset me. Well , I went to my house to make Christmas eve dinner early that Sat. morning and to get things in order for the dinner I would make that night . (remember I am living with my boyfriend now 15 minutes away and paying for absolutely everything there could be to pay for ,for both of my kids , dd 21 and ds 19 ...including my house and all of the bills that come with it ,both of there car insurances , both of there cell phones ,train fair to commute to the city monthly for school for dd, and money for food everyweek.Not to mention two college bills, they are both in school). When I got there in the morning I noticed presents under the tree so I went and looked.... My son doesn't work so I knew that my dd had gotten them. I saw one for her dad , her aunt , her Grandmother ,her brother and then ... I started see one for me , then two for me , and finally a third for me ! The last one that I looked was a gift for my boyfriend signed the same way she had signed everyone Else's ...she had made a heart and then signed her name ....I was so amazed and so touched by the fact that she came through and did the right thing that I started to cry. When she had come downstairs she said to me that she got him a present and i told her that I saw it and that I cried ...she said why and I told her that I was proud of her. I am telling you all of this because I thought it was some huge break through!.....not. The dinner went fine , my boyfriend was there . She said kissed him hello and said Merry Christmas. That was it for conversation between them and i thought it was perfect !I could not have asked for more than that!! I slept at my house that night at my ds request. My boyfriend went to his house because neither of us are comfortable sleeping in my house where my kids sleep. In the morning I gave the kids there gifts and opened mine ...still great. I went to my Boyfriends after that and they went to there dads and his family (they always do for Christmas day )..nothing wrong there either .

Jan3rd. my son had to have surgery on his knee (ACL repair ) . It was a football accident. I had told my bf that I would be going home to take care of my son until he was cleared to drive again . ( it was his driving leg ). Bf understood completely. So I went home wit ha suit case on Jan. 2nd . In the morning my dd woke up and said she was coming with my son and i to the hospital....Life is great... Everything went according to plan with the surgery and we all went home the same day. So , there I stayed .Taking care of my son and my daughter could not have been any happier or any nicer to me . My bf came over a few times before my ds was all better. It was a little uncomfortable when he would come over for him and for me but everything was OK. He always went home after the visit. My daughter was the nicest person you could imagine!

By the end of Jan. my son was doing great. He had been in physical therapy for a month (it started three days after surgery).Being 19 and in great shape ,he was healing very fast. He got cleared to drive and that's when it all went bad with dd.....

I packed up my suitcase a few days later and let them know that I would be going back to my bf house. My son who has always been fine was still fine but not dd.
The attitude started right up ! The mean hurtful cursing at me also started up again ...
I was going to my house Monday 's and Wed's nights and cooking a bunch of different things for them and then on Sat. morning I would go and clean the whole house for them...dishes and all.The whole while dd was not talking to me again . I tried to just ignore it . That worked for a little bit but then she got worse and worse. To the point that she texted me and said that I am only good for my money (which is why she texted me ). Today she is not talking to me still except for the nasty text messages that I get from her (like the one tonight ) I started only going to the house one day a week now ( because I feel like no one wants me there anyway) My ds doesn't mean anything by it but he is in his room usually playing his video came or talking to his friends or watching a sports game. Exactly what he would be doing if I still lived there .
I sent her a text yesterday morning asking her to take a package of chicken out of the freezer so i could grill it for her tonight . Today i sent her a text to make sure she was defrosting it. When I got home the package of chicken was on the counter ...frozen solid !!
So , I put it in the frig and figured I would grill it on Sat.. I had brought with me a big container of sauce and meatballs and fried up a bunch of chicken cutlets tonight while I was there.After I left there tonight the texts started to come in......
"thanks for the grilled chicken .., Tell bf I said hello and I hope he drops dead.., thanks for leaving my dogs ( I bring them back and forth with me and I do let them stay with the kids hear and there ) she said have a good night .., oh yea and I hate you .., and the she said goodnight. I didn't reply but .....Why can't this stop ?!!
Why can't I stop giving her everything she needs ?? I keep saying that I won't give her anymore money but then as soon as she needs it ( for the train for school or food ) I give it to her... I really don't know how to handle my guilt for not being there with them and I don't know how to handle her anger toward me .The more mad she gets , the more I give her !!
It's sick and I can't stop myself . I want to really change this but don't know what to do ?? The only problem I have with ds is that he won't work ...at all. He sleeps all day because we missed school for this semester because of the surgery.I can't get him to work and have to give him money for gas in his car to get to physical therapy. If I don't he won't go and that will hurt him in the end.....I hope you guys can map this out for me . I know what to do , I just don't know how to do it ?????


I don't think we can map this out for you. There's only one way to do it when you're ready. Sending love...
Be kind whenever possible. It is always possible. Dalai Lama


I agree w/Luise. When you're ready you'll know what to do. You can choose how to set your limits, how you will enforce them, what is not tolerable to you, what you will and will not accept. Best wishes to you.

Here's another perspective - what are you teaching your AC if you do everything for them and provide all their needs? I'm picturing big, fat birds bursting the sides of the nest while the skinny, haggard mommy bird flies back and forth bringing them worms all day.
Respect ... is appreciation of the separateness of the other person, of the ways in which he or she is unique.
-- Annie Gottlieb


I think maybe you should see a therapist over this.  I don't think we have the skills to really help you out with this one, it just looks like it runs too deep.

Because, it seems to me that you're acting like an abused woman, who keeps going back to her abuser, or who continues to 'love' her abusive parents.


Thank you for the replies ... I have been in therapy for this but all he tells me is that it is my guilt and I should leet go of it but he can't tell me how to let go of it.

I know all of the right things to do but yet I can't apply them...I feel like if I do i will ruin there lives !
Here is how my brain takes over...

If I don't give them money for food - they will tell everyone that I am a horrible mother that just got a bf and left her children without any food(who does that ?)

If I don't keep the bills paid - They won't have a safe place to live ..(who knows where they would end up )

If I don't clean the house - They will live like pigs (It's still my house house )

If I don't Pay for school - They will not get an education (what will become of them later ?)
Now the trickle down effect....

If I don't pay for the train to get to school - she can't get there (she would drop out )

If I don't pay for her car insurence , -DD can't get to the train to get to school to have an education to give her a good start in life(DD is an A & B student and takes it very serisouly) . DS would not be able to get to school when he starts again or physical therapy that he needs now ?  It will only get worse for them. I am lucky that I don't have AC with drug problems or permiscuity....(difficult divorse and all )
Is this really not a normal line of thinking ????
Am I really suppose to throw all caution to the wind and throw my hands up and just say...You can't be nice to me so I don't care what happens to you in life ??
If I don't think ahead for them , then who will ?? Not them . I know that I am suppose to let them but if they don't or can't think ahead because they are still to imature ,then isn't my job as there Mother to make sure they are steered in the right direction ???

That is my whole problem .....If I don't ,they they might crash and burn but ...because I have been this way there whole lives they would not know where to begin ....
Maybe you might have some advise as to a starting point for them to do things on there own ??...

I have decided now to only go to the house once a week instead of three times a week. Not sure what that will do but I hope something.........

I think it's clear that I just want the best for my AC and am only having this problem with DD because I don't physically live in the home with her anymore.(Therapist says ,she is just not mature enough yet to understand this fully )

Please set me straight once and for all so that ..my brain , will get it !!


You have a therapist...which is way more than we can offer. We can listen, share and care and you still have to do the work. As long as you rationalize and defend, you will stay stuck. When you are done...you will know it. Many of us has been there and there's no magic formula. When we need to be enmeshed and have our lives be about others, that's where we are, until we aren't.
Be kind whenever possible. It is always possible. Dalai Lama