What do I do about MIL? MILs, I would love to hear from you.

[phillek]

Wow, so much to respond to!  First, thank you all for your advice and support.  Thanks for the book suggestions, I will certainly check them out.

RedRose and Glenda, I especially appreciate your input.  The main reason I came to this site was to gain a different perspective.  Talking with my friends who sympathize with my situation sometimes makes me feel better, but it doesn't help me see the other side and I always end up back where I started.  I know that MIL comes from a place of hurt, and she is upset with me (whether her reason are valid are not, IDK), which is why she is often mean.  The Christmas visit in itself is not the main problem.  Honestly, I told Mom she would be there and she just said, "that's fine, no reason to exclude anyone.  I can share."  I didn't get into MILs rude comments with Mom- don't want her involved or uncomfortable.

So I am back to: Why?  What can I do differently?  It has helped to hear the suggestions that MIL is unreasonable and unpleasable.  I already knew this, but it helps me to try to follow DHs advice : "It's not your fault, do not feel guilty.  She is miserable and will never be satisfied, so just ignore her and do what you want."  I do feel guilty, though.  I do want her to be happy.  I try to put myself in her shoes, but the only thing I come back to is that if DS grows up to marry, and they are happy together and their children are happy, smart and healthy regardless of how they got that way, or my involvement in the process, what more could I need?

The things that seem to set MIL off are that she isn't needed enough: I don't complain about being a mother enough, I don't ask for more from her.  I do things differently than she would and don't apologize.  I know she is very jealous of my relationship with DS, and I'm pretty sure this is sick thinking on her part, but I'm not sure and would love opinions about this.  I think that the main reason she laid into me last time was less than the fact that DS had me pinned and I couldn't get away, and more that she was overcome with jealousy in seeing me hold my peaceful, sleeping baby.

I tried to give her more, but she wants everything.  She had been calling me several times a week, usually under some pretense that she wanted to know DS's clothing size or if he would like a certain toy (I don't ask her for gifts, but I don't mind her giving DS things if she wants).  The phone calls always ended up with her crying, saying how long it has been and how big he must be now (even after only a few weeks).  How she thinks of him day and night and touches his pictures and pretends that he is with her.  In other words, making me feel guilty, like I am keeping him from her, which I am not.  DS is the only GC and only GGC to nine people if you include my parents spouses and my grandparents, and MIL sees him ten times more than all of them combined.  I feel terrible about this, but I blocked her number from my phone and had DH tell her that my phone was broken.  I didn't know what else to do.  The last time she called, I let DS talk into the phone - "He's learned to count to 10, Grandma, isn't that great?!"  When I got the phone back she did not acknowledge his accomplishment, only wanted to know what he had for lunch and when was his nap?

She won't be satisfied until I say, "MIL, we are miserable and lost without you.  DS is too much of a handful, and we need you to come here and raise him for us.  I'll go back to work or move away so I can be out of your hair." and she seems to be trying every tactic in the book - guilt, manipulation, insults, tantrums to get us to do so.  Everything but love, kindness, and gentle support.

My choices are 1. Cut her off completely and get on with our life (feel guilty forever).  2. Bite my tounge, ignore her, and never be alone with her (feel defensive and on edge). 3. Have DH talk to her or FIL every time she is disrespectful, which is basically every time we have contact (feel like a difficult nusiance). 

All of these seem difficult considering my choice would be: 4. See her often, enjoy each other, share the joy of DS, be kind to one another.  Unfortunately, this one is impossible.

Regarding the questions about her mental illness:  FIL is a psychologist, and has taken full responsiblity for all things regarding her mental health.  We stay out of it.

A note about crying:  I have never seen her cry in front of anyone except me, either when we are alone or on the phone.  DH says she does not cry to him.  His family is very avoidant (hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil), and that could be the reason.  It also could be, as others have stated, a simple manipulation tactic.

[Scoop]

Oh my, you're going to have to learn a bunch of detachment with this woman.  But honestly, I tell my DD (7 y/o) that she is in charge of her emotions, and I think that applies to your MIL too, but also to you.  So you have to STOP yourself from feeling guilty.  Those are YOUR feelings and you're responsible for them.

For me, I just tell myself that I could fold myself in half 5 times and my MIL would say "Why not 6?"  With your MIL, there is NOTHING you can do to make her happy.  I don't think that she would even be happy if you left DS and DH for her to take care of.  Then, she would be unhappy with the way diapers are made now-a-days, or the fact that she would have to use a carseat, or the fact that kids shoes are not what they used to be. 

Do you hear me?

YOU HAVE NO POWER OVER HER HAPPINESS.  Absolutely NONE.

So, what do you do?  You take care of your own happiness and the happiness of your children.  So, invite the IL's if YOU want to.  Send her cards ect, or talk to her on the phone, WHEN IT SUITS YOU, because YOU are a nice person, not because she deserves it or because her happiness depends upon it.  As for the rest, let it go, it's not your responsibility.

Pull yourself back to a level where you're comfortable with your interactions with her.  Christmas is okay with your DM, that's awesome.  Your Mom rocks!

If MIL starts with the melodramatics, end the conversation.  "Oh look, DS is getting into something, I have to go!  Bye!"  Click.  Or take DS and leave the room.  Change the subject if you don't like the way a conversation is going.  Don't be afraid to say "MIL, you're obviously very upset about this, I'm going to let you take some time to get a hold of yourself.  Please call me back when you're calmer."

[Sassy]

I think you would also do well to practice what many of us have learned.  Accept people for who they are, and not try to make them into who we wish they would become.  Accept your MIL for who she is.  Even if who she is,  is an unhappy person.

[Doe]

  I already knew this, but it helps me to try to follow DHs advice : "It's not your fault, do not feel guilty.  She is miserable and will never be satisfied, so just ignore her and do what you want."  I do feel guilty, though.  I do want her to be happy. 

It sounds like you have been let off the hook by DH and by several MILs here but you still want to be on the hook! 
If someone treats you badly and you go back for more, I don't think you can blame the bully.

[phillek]

Doe, Sassy, and Scoop,

Thank you, this helps.  I will definitely think about what you have said. 

[Sassy]

She is miserable and will never be satisfied, so just ignore her and do what you want."  I do feel guilty, though.  I do want her to be happy.

Your MIL has a right to her feelings, just as you have a right to yours. 

Your MIL has a right to be unhappy and dissatisfied, without her owing you to feel differently. Just as you have a right to be happy and satisfied, without you owing her feelings of complaint, insecurity, misery, and overwhelmedness.

I don't complain about being a mother enough, I don't ask for more from her.  I do things differently than she would and don't apologize. "

She won't be satisfied until I say, "MIL, we are miserable and lost without you.  DS is too much of a handful, and we need you to come here and raise him for us.  I'll go back to work or move away so I can be out of your hair."

Your MIL isn't going to change how she feels, so that you can feel better about yourself as a DIL. 

Your MIL isn't going to change herself for your convenience.   

The only person who you can change is you.  Acceptance of what is, and letting go of that which is plainly and simply (and obviously) not in your control, is such a good place to start.

Syndicated advice columnist, and New Englander, Carolyn Hax suggests responding to tantrums from loved ones the following way.  She suggests saying basically, "I love you.  Let's talk later when you're feeling better" and ending the visit.
   

[Sassy]

Phillek, I think you are a very good fit for this group.  I needed to remind myself a lot of what I thought about and wrote on this thread.  So thank you, right back at ya.  My MIL isn't diagnosed that I'm aware of, but something is definitely wrong with her.  The tears, the drama, the hysteria.   This is always a tough time of year, especially because she loves Christmas.  I miss her.

[RedRose]

My choices are 1. Cut her off completely and get on with our life (feel guilty forever).  2. Bite my tounge, ignore her, and never be alone with her (feel defensive and on edge). 3. Have DH talk to her or FIL every time she is disrespectful, which is basically every time we have contact (feel like a difficult nusiance). 

All of these seem difficult considering my choice would be: 4. See her often, enjoy each other, share the joy of DS, be kind to one another.  Unfortunately, this one is impossible.

Regarding the questions about her mental illness:  FIL is a psychologist, and has taken full responsiblity for all things regarding her mental health.  We stay out of it.

Phillik,

I would say reach for #4 as a goal and use #2 and 3 often.

A cuff-off is never an option (my opinion).

I admire you for caring so much about the mother of your husband even though she causes so much grief.

If she upsets you too much I would confide in your husband and let him (or his father) talk to her.

[RedRose]

I am quoting Luise here...she just said this on anther thread yesterday. I believe what she has said applies here also.

"I think we can love without accepting abuse. We can love in our hearts and mean it sincerely and still maintain self-respect. When we hate, it only hurts us. Carrying that around make us toxic on some level."

[justanoldgrandma]

I thought I had posted this, but guess not, so forgive me if it's a repeat.

Ok, fil doesn't seem to be such a good psychologist when it comes to his dw.  I'm sure he's doing all he can and may be diffusing a lot of situations and maybe trying his best to keep mil from interferring, etc. 

But.... I don't think family members or friends are good psychologists when it comes to mental/personality disordered people they love...... too close to them to be effective.

I know you are staying out of her mental health and that's good bc you can't do anything about that.

But you can help yourself deal with her and your feelings.  You can't change her, as many say.  You are so considerate and thoughtful.  Will you be my dil?! 

Yet you have to be able to enjoy your family and keep mil from intruding and also making you feel guilty and used. 

When I was in acute anxiety over another son and his alcoholic wife, there was nothing I could do as he didn't talk about it; I saw destruction (which occurred but is over, thanks be to God, sincerely) but could do nothing to help; had to stay mute and dh didn't want to hear it and couldn't confide in others while it was going on (for several years.)

(I know your situation is different.)  But I found a counselor who totally got it and let me know my feelings were valid and helped me let it go.  With other IL problem, she let me know it wasn't me, and how to deal w the IL.  Setting some boundaries, helping me not feel so hurt.

If you can talk to a counselor or pastor or wise friend (or us!) it would help you vent and also help you set those boundaries; and ways to assert yourself with her; the family has let this go on and it's not good; you'll not change her but you can change how she treats you and how you react to her inappropriate behavior.

You have every right to have mom over for Christmas or go to her house w/o MIL; you need a break.  DH or FIL can insist on this if she won't listen to you!  As others said, maybe a short visit with her a couple of weeks after Christmas; you need a break! (Maybe next year Thanksgiving and Christmas can be alternated; if you want!)

[phillek]

I'm so thankful that I found this group.  I think just the discussion is helping me.  It is certainly helping DH and I since the topic comes up a lot less - We have already said it all, and sometimes I just need to talk about it with someone.  My friends are probably grateful, too

I know I'm not supposed to "shout", but THANKS EVERYONE SO MUCH!!

[Shelby]

  I think just the discussion is helping me.  It is certainly helping DH and I since the topic comes up a lot less - We have already said it all, and sometimes I just need to talk about it with someone.  My friends are probably grateful, too

Phil - I find the same benefit.  I sometimes re-read threads where I've posted about a situation and gotten advice from the ladies here.  It's nothing new that I'm reading - it's just that reading it again and again reinforces to me that --- there's nothing I can say or do -- there's nothing I SHOULD say or do --- and I need to have peace.  It also saves my husband's patience as well, as I don't need to keep hashing and re-hashing the same old ground with him.  Glad you have found some comfort here.

[Pooh]

This too gives me a place to discuss, learn and read so I don't drive my friend and DH bonkers!  Actually, I really only have one friend that knows most of my story, my bestie and she's great, I don't really discuss it with anyone but her and my DH, but I know they have to be grateful it's not a daily topic with them.

[JaneF]

All I can say at this point about the MIL you described in the initial post is WOW.  I feel she has "boundary issues" for sure!  Going through or cleaning your closets or anything else of yours without your permission is a prime example.  I am sorry you are experiencing these things.  I am a MIL, and a DIL, so I've been on both sides of this coin so to speak. lol  My first MIL was one of my best friends, and I respected her a great deal.  Sadly she passed away from lung cancerat age 65 almost 3 years ago. I miss her terribly, and loved her like she was my own mother really, even though her son and I divorced 24 years ago!  My current mother in law drives me wild at times, but in her defense, she has honestly never "been quite right" mentally, so some of her behaviors must be kind of understood and over looked.  Dementia is a sad reality, but one out of her control of course.  I did help take care of her before she got to the stage she was having delusions, and especially thought I was stealing her lotion and Bible book marks...oh dear, then I had to back away and let her son do what he felt was appropriate (which is basically nothing!!!).  She falls, drives, and lives alone with her worsening paranoia and delusions, SAD!  Now I have a DIL who from the very early stages of her relationship with my middle son decided how things were going to be, and she set forth with a plan to slowly remove his entire family from his life and the lives of their daughters (my grandchildren)...and the plan worked beautifully...of course he played a large role by totally changing his personality and began EXPECTING I should just GIVE to them, and is angry because I do not agree (he makes more money than my husband, and more than my salary too...not my fault his wife opts to be stay at home mom even though kids are both in school now.  That is their choice, and I support what ever they choose as it is their life...but don't expect me to work my tail off to give to you, as you are adults!  So it's a terrific mix of people and situations we have here on this web site is it not?  It is helpful to listen to others stories and views I think.  It is also helpful to not judge, but offer advice if asked for of course!  Your situation sounds very challenging indeed!  I do hope things improve for you somehow.  I also hope your MIL gets the help it appears she might need! Best to you and yours, and happy holidays!

[justanoldgrandma]

My choices are 1. Cut her off completely and get on with our life (feel guilty forever).  2. Bite my tounge, ignore her, and never be alone with her (feel defensive and on edge). 3. Have DH talk to her or FIL every time she is disrespectful, which is basically every time we have contact (feel like a difficult nusiance). 

All of these seem difficult considering my choice would be: 4. See her often, enjoy each other, share the joy of DS, be kind to one another.  Unfortunately, this one is impossible.

Regarding the questions about her mental illness:  FIL is a psychologist, and has taken full responsiblity for all things regarding her mental health.  We stay out of it.

Phillik,

I would say reach for #4 as a goal and use #2 and 3 often.

A cuff-off is never an option (my opinion).

I admire you for caring so much about the mother of your husband even though she causes so much grief.

If she upsets you too much I would confide in your husband and let him (or his father) talk to her.

Phillek, eager to hear how Christmas came out; hope mil didn't disturb the holiday.

I'm glad you have taken steps to detach mil and not "obey" her unreasonable demands which are to me part bully and part mental illness. 

I'm glad you and dh are discussing how to handle her; it's too bad the whole family has tolerated her behavior so long.....

About her behavior..... I know I'm repeating myself, but FIL is in my opinion not qualified to be her therapist (family members rarely can.)  Maybe she needs different meds, but she also definitely needs counseling, very strict boundaries that fil isn't able to put on her; how he and the family have endured her behavior is beyond me.

I know you and dh are staying out of her mental health, but I would discuss w fil her status and why he isn't able to correct or at least comment on her behavior.  And I would strongly suggest she go to someone other than her dh for mental help. 

Her mental health IS yours and dh's business bc left unchecked, she is going to continue to intrude.  She also sounds like a troubled woman in need of help.......she may always be mentally unstable, but her behavior can be checked to some degree.

Counseling, psychiatrist, dementia expert, someone, please!