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Anyone heard of this?

Started by tryingmybest, November 14, 2011, 04:06:38 PM

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luise.volta

I don't suppose if it is over a book there's much harm. A perspective is a perspective is a perspective is a perspective. First we make it up. Then we believe it. Then we are at the effect of it.  ;D ;D ;D
Be kind whenever possible. It is always possible. Dalai Lama

Pen

I'm sorry the MIL author has written in such a style that her point has become a joke. It's a real issue, but she's not handled the presentation well. She's done those of us with legitimate issues with our DILs a real disservice, apparently. I'm sad about this; I was hoping for a book that would be enlightening for all, especially regarding the MIL point of view.

Respect ... is appreciation of the separateness of the other person, of the ways in which he or she is unique.
-- Annie Gottlieb

Begonia

The woman is at least clever~~who was it that said, when it comes to sales, "any publicity is good publicity?"  So now I have to get it from the library just to check it out...(maybe send a copy it anonymously to my DIL)...hehehe evil laugh....I really would never do that, I no longer give her any kind of presents.  But I do love her dearly because she is the mom of the grandchildren I never see.  Oh, I better get some coffee I am quite a hornet this morning. :o :o :o
Yesterday is history, Tomorrow is a mystery, Today is a gift (Eleanor Roosevelt)

herbalescapes

I know there are mean, nasty, controlling, manipulative, lying DILs.  It does happen.  It happens among the MIL population, the SIL/FIL/BIL/SIL population, too.  It happens in any grouping of people, whether the grouping is by relationship, nationality, profession, religion, ethnicity, politics, eye color, etc.  I think we all agree that there are horrible people walking on this earth and some of us are unfortunate enough to have to interact with them in some way. 

There are also people we may want to label horrible in some way, but the reality is, they are just different from us.  They have different values, priorities, perspectives or whatever.  I've often pointed out that different communication styles can result in us making moral judgments on one another. 

For all we know the author's DIL is one of those really horrible people, but the examples the author gives of how DIL is controlling, etc. are weak at best.  I've previously pointed out that just because DIL has an office nook in DS art studio doesn't necessarily she is trying to intrude and control every aspect of DS life.  I think my own ILs would go into anaphylactic shock if you told them not to grocery shop together (slight exaggeration).  Do they shop together because one is controlling and dominating or because they kinda like each other and want to spend time together?  Either interpretation could be correct (I'm going with #2, but you don't have to take my word for it).  I'd bet dollars to donuts that I could examine everyone's life and pick and choose some incidents and come up with a rather convincing – on paper – argument that you are all controlling, dominating, rude, etc.  It's all about the spin.

When DIL and DS met she was living in a condo and he was living in a house.  At first they were going to sell her condo and live in his house.  They ended up selling his house and living in her condo.  There could be a whole bevy of financial reasons why it made more sense to sell his house rather than her condo.  Or DIL wouldn't be the first second wife not comfortable living in the same house her DH shared with his first wife. 

"Monica (the pseudonym for the DIL) belonged to a broken family of lapsed Catholics.  Perhaps she taught our son to think of his father, a highly respected Protestant minister, as representing some kind of sinister faith that takes advantages of its adherents."  Nothing to back up this supposition.  No examples of anti-protestant activity on DIL's part.  Just a slap in the face to the 1 billion Catholics on Earth.  I thought Catholic-Protestant relations had evolved past the Spanish Inquisition. 

DIL enrolled their oldest daughter  (9 months)in a Gymboree class and (viciously?) invited the author and DH to come watch.  "It was clear that Monica was already programming her daughter's life in a big way.  She had also enrolled her in a swimming class."  If the author thinks a Gymboree class and baby swim class constitutes an over-involved mother over-scheduling her progeny, she (author) needs to interact with modern young mothers more.  It may seem like a lot compared to when the author was raising her kids, but that's nothing by today's standards.  I think Gymboree and swim class are head and shoulders above plopping your kids in front of a TV!

"In the months before Richard and Monica's marriage, he told us he didn't have time to see us until after the wedding.  When we did see them, she always said when it was time to go.  He was always as closely governed as a prisoner in a cell, and his time was never his to spend as he might have wished." Again, nothing to back this up.  Just because she's the one to say "time to leave" doesn't mean she set the departure time.  Maybe they agreed beforehand on a time and she's a better clock-watcher.  Or maybe he asked her to get them out of there by a certain hour, because he doesn't know how to disentangle from his folks.  If they rarely see the couple, the author can't factually claim DS's time was never his own.  Maybe he was doing exactly what he wanted – not being with his parents.  He wouldn't be the first DS whose interest in time with his FOO is dramatically BELOW what his FOO imagines and the DIL gets the blame. 

Scoop

Hey, I just posted this on my FB the other day, and I think it applies here too:

Once you hate someone, everything they do is offensive.  "Look at her over there, eating her crackers like she owns the place!"

I can't comment on the book because I haven't read it, but I really don't like when people place 100% of the blame for the deterioration of a relationship on one person.  (Except for you Pen, your DIL has shown her colours.)  I acknowledge that I am responsible for 50% of the relationship I have with my MIL.  I'm working on that 50%, and it's hard, because she doesn't seem to be working on her 50%, but I'm reminded that I'm doing it not because she is nice, but because *I* am.

Pooh

Quote from: herbalescapes on November 17, 2011, 12:53:15 PM
I don't find anything rude about DS asking to change the time.  If DIL already had plans with her family and DS wanted to squeeze in his family, wouldn't we have thought DIL was being a snotty snot if she wouldn't even TRY to include both families?  I really can't blame DIL down the line spending all holidays with her family if this was the reaction to a mere request to alter times.  (Again, if DS had said they weren't coming unless the time changed or after receiving a No to his request cancelled, I'd side with the author.)  It's a once-bitten-twice-shy situation.

I agree with Pen, that MIL might have some legitimate gripes, but her presentation does stink.  I haven't read it, but reading your takes on it, I will throw my two cents in.  I am seeing problems on both sides. 

In this example, I think MIL handled it badly, but I do see it as rude on DS's part.  If DS/DIL had agreed to prior plans and a time, and waited just a few days before to try to change it, I can see where MIL was hurt because of the reason and felt like she was being placed after DIL's family.  Why didn't they ask DIL's brother to change the time?  Why is it that DS's family was the one to have to adapt?  Maybe MIL had other plans already later in the day is why she said what she did, out of frustration and anger?  I'm just throwing it out there because we have no idea.  They may have asked DIL's DB first and he couldn't change.  I don't know.  I will tell you this.  I am flexible as a willow tree when it comes to my family.  My family is also very flexible, so it was us that ALWAYS had to change times or premade plans to work around DIL's family.  We did it and I'm sure that OS knew how flexible and compromising we all are, so didn't think anything about asking us all the time.  The inside track on me is that although I would do it because I thought it was the right thing to do, and to be able to see them, at the same time, it does make you feel like you are second-rate after awhile, because it would be nice, if just once, DIL asked her family to compromise.  And then when we would change times to help them, it usually made it where they only had an hour for our event, and still left 4-5 hours for DIL's event.

Was I grateful that they fit us in for an hour?  Sure.  I'd rather see them for an hour than not at all.  Is it still hard on our feelings to know we had to constantly change our plans in order to see them for that hour, but no change was required on DIL's side of the family?  Yes.  It does hurt.

So I will say that I can see, in the example you gave on this one, where MIL was finding it rude and hurtful, because I am taking it from the other side.  We have no idea all the things that went into that.  Was it DS wanting it, was it DS relaying what DIL wanted, was it both their ideas?  We have not idea because this MIL is just giving her side.  She definately sounds like she doesn't handle things well at all, but I can see some underlying hurt going on in on both sides and I would see this as rude.  I just wouldn't have made a big deal out of it, because we are used to it.

And yes, I'm seriously thinking about ordering this now....Lol.  Now I am really curious.  Not because I have DIL problems, but because I read "Toxic Inlaws" about how bad MIL's can be, and it was interesting to read that side of the coin, and I felt the same way about it that this seems to be.  There was some good info and insight in there, but you had to read between the author's perspectives to see some of it.  The rest of it, I didn't agree with, with my situation now, but boy was it right about my Ex MIL.  I would bet a gazillion dollars though, that my DIL would read it and say it was spot on about me.  Why?  Because this sentence can be taken two different ways, dependant on how an individual wants to see it.

This is the sentence:

Last night I shot an elephant in my pajamas.

Some will see the elephant was wearing my pajamas, some will see I was.  Perspectives.
We must let go of the life we have planned, so as to accept the one that is waiting for us. -
Joseph Campbell

justanoldgrandma

Yes, Pooh, perspectives.  I won't read this book bc if I start reading one-sided stories, let alone books, about mean ole dils or mean ole mils,  I start obsessing over my own dil and things she has said, how ds doesn't see this and that, how dh doesn't want to obsess with me!  lol!, etc.  Better to let a lot of it go if possible.

It sounds like one of these books where a dil who isn't thrilled with her own mil would be totally defending the dil in this book.  And where a mil who isn't thrilled with everything her dil does and says would say, "Right on, sister!"

Makes me think of unsubstantiated biographies can say whatever about someone w/o any verification...... like Herbal has said, in defense of the dil, we don't know the whole story.  The mil could be totally misconstruing everything; or she could be partially or totally right; who knows?

It sounds bitter and overly critical of the dil, according to the reviews given here.  Yet many mils can read even the reviews and say, yep, been there, had this and that happen to me, etc.  So much hurt has occurred, so many misunderstandings, such different personalities, it's understandable how some people would agree with the author's words and others be totally incensed.  There are mils and dils who are unreasonable and downright mean, some w/o even knowing it; and then there's the rest!

So not gonna go read this book; would be too aggravating and blood pressure rising, one way or another.

Luise said it.  Pooh said it.  It's all a matter of perspective.  Love the elephant analogy!

Pooh

I'm just weird like that justanoldgrandma.   ;D  When the Harry Potter books came out, I had no desire to read them, because it's not my kind of books I usually enjoy.  After all the controversary came out surrounding them, from some religious communities (including my own), yeah...it made me want to read them!  Lol.  I wanted to see what all the hoopla was about and I ended up loving them, own all of them and have seen all the movies now probably 2-3 times each!

I didn't see anything wrong with them...because ummm....yep, they are fiction!  They were entertaining to me.  Could I see where there was another perspective involving the religious communities?  Yes, but I made up my own mind.  My perspective.

I love 101 dalmations too, but I really don't think that dalmations can talk!  Hmm...maybe they can and I'm just not listening...
We must let go of the life we have planned, so as to accept the one that is waiting for us. -
Joseph Campbell

Pooh

And herbal, I'm loving what you are writing and hearing your thoughts on this book.  You always have very interesting thought processes that I truly enjoy.
We must let go of the life we have planned, so as to accept the one that is waiting for us. -
Joseph Campbell

Pen

I'm in agreement with those who feel that accepting another invitation and asking the first host to change their plans is rude. I'm tired of being at the mercy of DIL's FOO's holiday schedule. It's very inconvenient for us what with transporting DDD, etc. and after all the cleaning and cooking we get to see DS/DIL for an hour; DIL's FOO gets them all day.
Respect ... is appreciation of the separateness of the other person, of the ways in which he or she is unique.
-- Annie Gottlieb

herbalescapes

I want to confess that I am not reading the comments in between my posts.  So if someone is telling me "Enough already!"  I am circumventing your input to me. 

Just how well do we know our own kids?  We all like to think we do, but I'm sure most of us have run into the parent who thinks little Susie or Johnnie is the cat's whiskers when in reality little Susie or Johnnie is the brattiest, most obnoxious, rude, bullying little twerp.  Sometimes our kids don't share our views on how we get along.  Have you ever known a parent who thinks they have a close, confiding relationship with their kids, but the kids are out doing drugs, crimes, getting pregnant, etc. while the parent remains blissfully unaware?

The author tries to portray her son as a victim of the controlling, toxic DIL, but the input the author provides about her DS, makes me wonder how well she actually knows him.  She seems to sugar coat his (to me) obnoxious personality.  My apologies to the real son; I've never met him and even if his mother's characterizations of his childhood/adolescence aren't totally off the mark, none of us wants to be judged as adults by the way we were as teens. 

"For a year or two, we kept theorizing that either Richard was having a nervous breakdown or had a tumor on his brain that was compelling him to behave in complete opposition to his original character.  He had been such a wise, good-natured person before he met Monica.  He had loved us with all the appropriate fealty of a son who had been well treated and much loved all of his life."
Yet, the author provides these contrasting images of her son:

"He was sometimes a challenge as a youngster, to his teachers and to us as well, but both his teachers and we knew he was worth it."  Did the teachers actually say that?  What do they really think? What were the "challenges" he gave?

"he was a terror on the playing field and didn't like to be beaten at anything.  Whenever we engaged in a family game of Monopoly, he invariable ended up overheating, so that his face turned red, and he would eventually get so mad...that he cried and went away angry."

"He broke more than one tennis racket when he played with his dad...(dad) usually managed to eke out a victory by being calm and resourceful.  Richard often complained afterward about his dad's dinky little drop shots."

As a preschooler, Richard lived in Paris with his folks.  Though he picked up French he refused to speak it.  The author describes this as being independent.  Richard's explanation was, "I'm not French and I not speak French."  To me, that's an ugly American in diapers.  It's rude not to use the local language if you are able.  This was a moment the parents could have taught some manners, respect, humility.  Instead, they are proud of his "independence."  If they didn't expect him to make an effort as a preschooler, why do they expect him to do anything he doesn't want as an adult?

Richard comes off as a spoiled, selfish, obnoxious, self-centered twerp.  He certainly doesn't seem a likely victim of mind control which the author's husband thinks is the explanation.  "Monica has stolen our son's mind and is driving it over the cliff as surely as if she were behind the wheel of an 18 wheeler.  He may be right. We know she majored in psychology in college, but doubt if she is even conscious of the techniques she is using.  It probably comes naturally to the descendent of a big business tycoon like her grandfather.  She instinctively knows which buttons to push in our son's psyche to get him to be her robot for life. "

I'm not sure if psychology majors, business tycoons or descendants of business tycoons should be the most insulted by that last quote.

MoonChild

Herbal, I love hearing your perspectives on this book.
Out of curiosity, since you have read the book, do we know that the author's invitation was actually given first?
By this, what I am trying to ask is: do we know that DS didn't just at first accept the author's invitation and upon relaying the message to his wife discover that she already had plans of going to her FOO, who may or may not have already cemented that schedule to accommodate others in their family? There seem to be so many possibilities and too little fact-based information provided.
I believe I have stated before, on another thread, sometimes (many times) DS will, in the hopes of possibly sparing his mother's feelings, essentially pass blame of a decision made onto his DW.
Perspectives are an interesting and sometimes deadly thing (we all have a right to our own perspectives), and in my opinion, ought to be taken into account along with one's comfort levels.
Perhaps if MILs and DILs who may be having issues truly understood each others' comfort levels there may be less conflict.
For example (not related to the book): if DILs FOO is conservative and they have created and recognize strict parental boundaries and this is how their family unit runs and everyone enjoys it as such; while DS' FOO is very liberal and now that he is an adult they would rather cut the parental boundaries and be  more of friends to their son and this is how their family unit runs and everyone enjoys it as so - but what if by chance DS' FOO says or does something that for them would be normal, but for DIL the statement or action may be crossing that parental boundary that she finds to be the norm; she may then become uncomfortable and perhaps quiet and reserved which she then may be labeled as standoffish or cold. And in turn DIL may now view  her ILs in a different light, and thus issues may arise.
IMHO, knowing others' comfort level, recognizing them, and taking action to compromise to meet at a position where everyone is at ease just shows that you care and you want the other party to be involved. But, this is my opinion and relates to my own situation.

luise.volta

The analogy that I love (I got it from my dad) is: "I'm so low I could crawl under a snake with a silk hat on!" What do you see?
Be kind whenever possible. It is always possible. Dalai Lama

justanoldgrandma

Hey, Pen, I gotta say I still don't like not seeing the kids for Christmas bc of FOO's plans but it will never change.  But I would hate doing all the work you are doing for just a short while.....

Ok, I could try looking up abbreviations again but can't find 'em....... only one I can't imagine or even google is:  DDD

Dear darling daughter?  Darn darn daughter?  (I know you don't mean my last guess!)

Pen

I made this one up, lol. DDD = dear disabled daughter. There are times when it explains things like why transportation is an issue, or why my DD is devastated when she can't spend time with her DB.

Sorry for the confusion!
Respect ... is appreciation of the separateness of the other person, of the ways in which he or she is unique.
-- Annie Gottlieb