Controlling dil

[Doe]

Well, before you start assigning her a mental illness, maybe just consider you are two different people who don't agree.  Not liking how your MIL dresses your children probably isn't in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (or at least shouldn't be, imo.)

Seriously, if she is good with her children, has a moral compass, why not let it end there? Just accept who she is and stop expecting her to act differently.  I have to repeat,  many of us would swap places with you in a minute - you have a working relationship with your son and his family. 

[jdtm]

Oh, on dil having borderline behavior disorder; she probably does

Hmm - what's the saying "if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck; it probably is a duck".  Even if your DIL is not BPD, there are lots of excellent ways, ideas and methods that you can learn from nons who interact with personality disordered people to better help you to interact and communicate with your daughter-in-law (and other family members too).  Lots and lots of information on the internet re this topic  ....

But as Doe mentioned, you are lucky as you still have a working relationship with your family.  I lost mine for several years (a divorce and time is helping to heal this wound but it takes a long time - the relationship will be patched but never seamless as it once was).  But, if your relationship with your son is in jeopardy, then finding advice on how to deal with difficult or self-centered people can help this situation.  There is no easy solution, is there?

[lancaster lady]

Sometimes its just a case of two women in close contact with totally different ways of doing things.
After living with my DIL for five months , I could have screamed at some of the things she did in the house ,
but I didn't ! Peace must be held at all times ! lol....
My nervous twitch has now gone completely , and hopefully my heart will settle down too .
We are really unaware of what certain situations do to our health , and of how much stress we are under .
We MIL's do try our hardest to '' get along '' , much more than our DIL's are aware of , well in my case anyway .

Anything I did with my GD was with her mom's approval , including food , bath , walks , clothes  you name it
I gained approval first .Which can be strain in itself ,not being able to be spontaneous .

A week has now gone by , and my DIL has been in touch via text , so I'm hopeful of our relationship
growing into a friendship .That's all I ever wanted .

[Pen]

LL, I'm glad to hear DIL is contacting you. I know it must have been hard to run everything past her and to keep quiet about things that bothered you, but it appears to have paid off. Good job!

[justanoldgrandma]

Just accept who she is and stop expecting her to act differently.  I have to repeat,  many of us would swap places with you in a minute - you have a working relationship with your son and his family.

I have to say something here; I have accepted dil as she is since the day ds introduced us, accepting her changeable behavior and advice and criticism and rules (I was told that all holidays and every other weekend would be with her FOO for the rest of her life)....we were surprised at this declaration and couldn't speak but have accepted this bc we don't want to lose the family.  (We have one other child that we see rarely bc of distance; a small family; we try to concentrate on each other and on our activities.)

When I have confided in another grandmother for being yelled at, seriously yelled at, for not writing down when a diaper was changed, she said, well, you weren't assertive enough at the beginning.  No, I was blindsided, never believing that ds would marry a woman would would be bossy and critical (I don't know how many times I leave the room so as not to reveal tears in my eyes or leave to take a walk so as not to retort in anger)......

The reason we still have access to ds, dil, and gc is bc, yes, fortunate in that there hasn't been a divorce and that dil has been a good mother..... but also that dh and I just take the verbal assaults, never knowing when they will come.

Her own mother, father, her and my dhs, and even friends have remarked on her unpredictable behavior; sweet one moment, snapping at them the next.  She does complain to me when her own family and friends displease her.

She has been allowed to be the controller is all I can figure.  However, outsiders, like plumbers, etc., refuse to accept her orders and rudeness to them and she is totally insulted by their noncompliance.

I know you other mils have done nothing to be "cut off" from your dils and I am lucky to have a dil that isn't abusive to her children (can be snappy, but not abusive to them; she does love them); I can only imagine how hard it is to lose access to children/gc.  I'm just saying it isn't as simple as a suggestion that this or that outfit be changed, that the laundry soap be Tide Clear, that I not post a picture deemed unflattering on FB (I have unsubscribed from FB so as not to offend..... )

I'm saying that in order to have access to the family I have to control my feelings, agree, not be myself, not express an opinion that she'd disagree with.  It's simply a matter of control and power and it's totally on her side.  Just when I start to relax in her presence, a sharp remark/criticism will occur.....(BTW, although I have no say over this, it can't be good for her children to grow up not knowing when an outburst will occur..... ds, either, but we keep out of it.) 

This is not just me; dh has said many times he feels unwanted, cold, in her house; has nearly left; yet she can be appreciative, thoughtful at times, and of course we love our son and gc dearly.  We love dil bc she is the wife of our son and of course has good qualities; why she is so controlling/impulsive in her speech/demanding...... environmental, I can see that; I can't diagnose her behavior.  Just the results. 

I have had a demanding career for 39 years and do know how to deal with people and am not a wimp.  Since ds and dil started planning marriage and the rules were set, I have had anxiety attacks, sleepless nights, and went to the counselor to see how to handle this situation who has dealt with many controllers in her practice and it's simply ignore what I can, realize it's not my problem, that the remarks are thrown at others, and to explain briefly when "scolded" and to go on.....

There are times when it's so demoralizing that after a visit (we keep it short) I feel so horrible and depressed.....yet there seems to be no solution if I want to continue seeing my family.  The Serenity Prayer is my constant. 

I wanted to say all this bc of course I know many of you would trade with me in a heartbeat; however, we aren't in a contest to see who has it worse.  We all are suffering in our own ways.  I think the way dh and I and others have been treated has been trivialized and although I know I can't change dil or interfere in ds's home life, it is a conundrum in every way.

[Pen]

I understand your hurt and frustration, JAOGM. Your pain is no easier to bear than anyone else's and shouldn't be trivialized.

Although many of us have similar situations to others here, in truth our situations are uniquely our own.

[lancaster lady]

Old grandma :  I can understand you wanting to keep in the good books to see your gc , but the treatment you are undergoing sounds like borderline abuse ! Can't you see what its doing to your health ? I know I tow the line to some extent but I would never put up with anything so disrespectful .She continues to treat everyone this way because they allow it . I know everyones situation is different , but I refuse to be a doormat . I suppose its hard to change since you have accepted this behaviour from day one , but think of your own self worth and try not to be walked on . Sending hugs .

[justanoldgrandma]

I would call it abuse, myself, LL.  Dil is manipulative; just when I and dh (and her family has had some rows also, calling her Queen Bee ((in convos to me)) and that there would be hell to pay if things don't go her way,) she'll be suddenly sweet as can be.  Sometimes ultra considerate; I know ds is in love with her and is so busy w work and also at home that he just takes the talk until he retorts and she gets quiet.  Her outbursts are sudden and then over; probably a way of dealing with stress.

From the beginning my dh didn't see what was happening and told me not to overstep, to not say this or that..... gradually he has learned her personality and is also unhappy with her "spoiled brat" behavior.  He simply walks off and ignores it, sometimes retorts.  DS was so happy in love that I just chalked it all up to "modern girls" but I know modern girls aren't that way, at all.   My sil in particular has seen her bossiness but she is blunt yet doesn't worry about losing her gc; she is so close to her daughters; our ds wouldn't disown us after a "row" but I'm sure we'd see a lot less of him and gc..... first time I really wish I had daughters!

I did call her on her accusing me of being morbid when I mentioned someone's death; we can't discuss anything "unpleasant" as she maintains a princess type mentality; she didn't back down and neither did I.  Although it wasn't a victory, I felt better at not staying quiet.  I also told ds we were lonely at Christmas and we have had more time since that conversation.

It's worse at this time of the year, knowing dh and I aren't considered important enough to be with at Christmas, ever, ever; that ds goes willingly to dil's FOO for their big traditional celebrations; I am trying to enlarge my circle of friends/church...... btw, the other son has had a hellish marriage that is ending and this of course added to my stress.  I mainly talked w counselor about his situation.  He is much happier now and that's a relief; I was so consumed by that I mainly ignored this dil's behavior.

Yes, I was raised to be quiet, never talk back; was criticized....... throughout my adulthood I've become less quiet and want more enjoyment out of life.  My job required a lot of authority; I was quite assertive..... since retirement I've become too vested in the sons and gc. 

So.... I've googled books on "controlling people," etc....... any more help on how to handle being around dil?  (Like I said, the only people ((after she gets to know them and charm them)) that don't take her bossiness are workmen, some day care workers, people who don't care if she blows up at them.

[jdtm]

and I am lucky to have a dil that isn't abusive to her children (can be snappy, but not abusive to them; she does love them)

Be really careful - I too believed our ex-DIL loved her children and was not abusive but one day when she thought no one was looking ......  And, degrading another person in front of the children is abusive behaviour - what is she teaching her children?  When our DIL finally left her husband, she also abandoned her children.  From what you have written, I don't trust your DIL.

[justanoldgrandma]

I hate what happened to your gc, jdtm; it has to be horrible to see such happenings.  Dil was raised to be a "good girl," never physical in anger, always verbally.....and this group of mothers never, ever believe in spanking; but already I've seen her snap at older child for minor accidents, all the while spoiling her, giving her everything; child is carbon copy of mother..... but with ds's sweetness and consideration, thank goodness.  Dil has some of these good qualities, too, when not harried.?

I opened my mouth for the first time and told ds he needed to get a handle on gd's tantrums; he was angry w me but I've noticed he's gotten stricter..... of course, this is a different issue, the spoiling, which I try not to get into again.   How they raise the kids is their business so long as it doesn't get as you described;  I wish dil would get some help herself bc her temper results, I think, from perfectionism and just having her way.....

In regard to my self-esteem, I need something like role playing with someone who understands this type of controlling person; btw, my anxiety is lessened since OS's ordeal is over; now I think I'm just angry with myself...... wanting to fire back, have a talk with ds or dil (which I've seen isn't going to happen)....... I have told dh I can't be with dil for long periods of time; he thinks I'm exaggerating bc he is usually doing outside work while I'm with dil....... but he does get it some now, finally!

[pam1]

justanoldgrandma, what about seeing a counselor to role play with?  Or a good friend who gets it?

I recommend reading "Stop Walking on Eggshells" not b/c I think your DIL has a personality disorder but rather it is a really good book and addresses situations just like yours.  Lots of advice and tips.  Even though the book is directed towards dealing with those who have bpd I think it can help in any relationship with a difficult person.

[Pooh]

I can adapt to social etiquette in settings, but I'm still myself, just watch some "p's and q's" that I may be more laxed with in different settings.  I don't "walk on eggshells" around anyone.  They accept me for who I am, or they don't.  I can accomodate needs and be very giving to someone's preferences, but if it's only one side always bending over backwards to understand and accomodate, it's a problem.  You either decide to do everything "their" way, or you decide to be helpful, giving and do your best to accomodate their wishes, but with a dose of yourself and see if there are consequenses.  If there is, then you have choices, just like she does.

[Sassy]

I just saw a show on TV where a boss asked one of his employees one of those weird why questions.  "Why are you wearing that?"

I like the employee's reply: He hesitated then said,  "I don't know the right answer to that question."

[Sassy]

Strictly for the purpose of this conversation and in the spirit of education, (and certainly not as a diagnosis), it might be interesting to check out descriptions of obsessive compulsive personality disorder.  OCPD is related to its much more famous cousin, OCD.  They both are ways people who have anxieties try to find relief through ritual and order.  When the ritual behavior (counting, checking, washing, hoarding, doubting) becomes obsessive, it can interfere with relationships and performance.

[Pen]

My DIL jokes about her and her family's OCD tendencies. As a fairly relaxed housekeeper I don't find it so amusing, actually...and I do walk on eggshells/modify my relaxed behavior because if DIL doesn't want to be around us we see less of DS.

Fun Facts FYI, the difference between the idioms "walking on eggshells" and "walking on eggs" is that the former refers to not wanting to upset someone, and the latter refers to being in a precarious position. I just found that out.