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My son is pushing me out of his life

Started by Hope, February 15, 2010, 01:18:28 PM

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Hope

This is my first post after finding this wonderful site.  I read and read and read everyone's words of wisdom and finally felt ready to share my story.  It's not all that dramatic, but I am very hurt.  My husband and I have been blessed with 3 children, all adult now, and living locally.  Our 2 girls are great to us, but our son is getting more and more distant since his marriage of 5 years ago.  We have been very supportive of our son and DIL over the years, morally and financially.  We gave them the same amount of money toward their wedding as we spent on our daughter's wedding (more than the bride's parents) and recently gave them 1/3 of our life savings to help them out with a financial hardship they were facing.  We try to get together with them, but they don't answer the phone when I call or reply to my messages.  They only come around on Christmas, Easter, Thanksgiving, Mother/Father's Day and a few times a year for birthday dinners for which we treat out at restaurants.  My DS will answer an occassional email, in a brief way.  He never initiates contact and when I try to get the family together to do fun things, my DIL pushes back hard - to the point of being rude.  This summer they will be making us grandparents for the first time and I already know that we are the "other" grandparents.  They already see our DIL's parents often.  I share the pain in many of your stories about not understanding how your DS can allow you to be hurt.  I'm there and preparing myself for more hurt when our gc compounds my feelings.  I don't like being treated like a nobody, especially by someone I love so dearly.  I agree with many of you that said that you have to go on with your life and try to be happy with what you do have.  Maybe some day they will see things differently.  Any other thoughts?

2chickiebaby

Dear Hope,
Thank you for joining our little group...it's a hard road to go on but we're hoping that together, we can make it.  We know how you feel because this doesn't happen with daughters.

He's doing to dance of "I'm in control and you must obey my wishes to show me your love and devotion."   I am happy for you that you have daughters....!! Be so thankful for that.  I know you can't replace one child for another but you can put most of your love and caring into your Daughters and the children they have or will have.

You can't win in this situation...if you call, it will be too much.  If you don't call, it will be that you don't care.  If you ask them to something and they don't show up, don't act like it bothers you..you will be called, "manipulative and needy" if you do.

I know your heart is breaking right now but be so glad that he is allowed to visit on special occasions!  Try not to show weakness around her.  That is the worst thing you can do~!  Don't let her know you are sad at all.  She will retaliate with terrible things.  We know; we've been there.  If you can act like nothing is wrong, do it!!  It will save you many heartbreaks ahead.

So glad you're here!!!  Hope is here, everyone..... :)

luise.volta

Welcome!

My only thought to to do what you are doing here and that is to join a support group. It's just too hard to process alone.

Sending good thoughts your way.
Be kind whenever possible. It is always possible. Dalai Lama

Hope

Thank you for your kind words, CB and Luise!  I feel like I just received a couple warm hugs.  I think CB is so right when she describes how whatever you do, you can't win.  It has really helped my resolve to read what you have all been through and to know how strong you are.

Hope

Thanks for your comforting hug, Anna.  I feel like I relate so much to all of you!  You can imagine how many hours I spent analyzing what I could have possibly done to have earned such scorn, only to find myself more confused.  After reading many posts on this site, I feel affirmed that it's not that we aren't good mothers, we didn't do a thing to deserve such cold treatment, rather it is our insecure DIL's influence.  It's nice to find others who can REALLY understand,
Hugs, Hope

RedRose

Welcome Hope...This is wonderful place to be, filled with very understanding and caring ladies...a great place to just vent.

In my case, my dil could not stand it if my son showed any love to anyone but her. She is a very controlling person and when she does not get her way she makes life miserable for everyone. I learned to just get along with her in order to have peace in the family and time with my grandson.

luise.volta

If you haven't read yesterday's thread about control, you might want to. We went pretty deeply into that subject and looked at it from many different angle. When we do a good job and get bad results, it's hard to reconcile.

For some, it's the fact that the DIL wants to be the queen and thinks the MIL might have once been seen as such by DH; better not to take any changed. Stomp her out! Sad. We're moms, we always have room for one more.
Be kind whenever possible. It is always possible. Dalai Lama

Hope

Thanks, RR and Luise.  That's pretty much where I am, too.  I try to keep the peace, but the real test will be when our gc comes along this summer.  I hope we will be permitted to babysit.  Our DS is not a fighter - he never was.  He takes the easy road for sure, but our DIL is pretty fiesty in all areas of her life.  I'll look for the "control" thread.  I have read some posts about control, but I'll check to see if I missed what you are talking about.  Which topic is it under? Thanks for caring.

luise.volta

It is under Daughter in Laws/Son in Laws under the title "Controlling People" and was started on 2 - 13. It had nearly 100 responses that were read almost 500 times.  Enjoy!
Be kind whenever possible. It is always possible. Dalai Lama

Marilyn

Welcome Hope,i'm so glad you found this site.It truly helps so much,with all the ladies here that have such big hearts,and compassion.
I wish i would of found this site a lot sooner,before my GC were born.It could of saved me a lot of heart ache.
What Chickie told you is soooooo true,and try really hard not to react or feel hurt by your DIL"s words or actions.Come here and vent,it will really help you cope with what your going thru.

I'm really glad you get the special holidays,mother and father's day,and birthdays.With the help and support you get here,hopefully that will continue,and you wont feel totally shut out.

I know how heart breaking this is for you,
Sending you a hug

Pen

Hope, welcome. I love your name :)

Your first post said it all. We feel your pain and confusion; you're in a supportive place here, as you stated already. I'm glad you have daughters. They'll be a comfort to you in the coming years.

I wish I had words of wisdom for you, but I'm still trying to get my bearings in this strange new world called MIL Land. My situation is similar to yours except for the daughters - I'm glad you will have their comfort in the months and years to come.
Respect ... is appreciation of the separateness of the other person, of the ways in which he or she is unique.
-- Annie Gottlieb

cremebrulee

February 16, 2010, 05:52:01 AM #11 Last Edit: February 16, 2010, 07:17:53 AM by cremebrulee
Hello Hope and welcome

I'm so sorry you are going thru this with your son, it is a sad thing to have happen....however, knowing what I know now, take the signs for what is being said...for some reason, they want you to back off...they want to live they're own lives...

I don't feel that your DIL is mature and would guess she grew up a prinecess, given everything, or in a dysfunctional home....
which leaves scares of insecurity, fear, and jealousy, which are all a disease, that needs to be cured...however, also, you will learn that I'm a big softy and mean no harm to anyone, however, I am also a very cut and dry person who only wants to help, and sometimes that means, that I'm going to say things you don't want to hear...however, I do hope after being thru this horror show with my DIL for the past 12 years, and being a DIL myself....that you understand, my only concern is you and your relationship with your children...including DIL.

2nd...if you want to give money to your children fine, that is your personal preference, but just because you do, doesn't mean they owe you anything in return....it doesn't give you the right to entitlement into they're lives or the right to expectations of how they should act towards you or receive you.  Your now dealing with two grown adults who want to start they're own traditions and rules of they're own household...it's they're life now, and they deserve to do so.

I noticed you wrote, that you gave them more money for they're wedding then her parents....darlin, that shouldn't even be an issue, or be said....and, if you feel like that, I'm sure, she feels like your trying to buy they're affections and personal life story. 

My mother always taught me, if I loan money to someone, it's nice to get it back, but, that I shouldn't expect it back....she told me it says that in the Bible, however, she also drilled it into us, that we should never borrow money, unless we really need help...and then, we are obligated to pay it back, even if we can only afford, $5.00 per week, to let that person know, we're making an attempt. 

I hope you understand my words as they are meant...and I do hope and pray, you understand, that your children need space...and perhaps your DIL is angry, b/c in giving them all that money, you've made her, not your son, but her feel obligated to the point that she fears saying no...or telling you, what bothers her and upsets her. 

Children need to learn, they can't have everything, and they must work hard for what they have....by giving them way to much, won't make them respect you more, nor will it teach them the responsiblity of working hard for what they want....

may I ask you why, why would you give them a third of your life savings...I could understand if they went belly up, or they both lost they're jobs...and are on the way to loosing they're home...however, 1/3 of your life savings?  Do you expect to get it back...that may be why they are avoiding you...b/c you enabled them to go beyond they're financial limit, and now can't afford to pay you back? 

We as parents do wrong when we feel we need to give, give, give, to make they're lives easier then ours....remember, it was the bad experiences, which made us, realize responsiblity...

Please Hope, read my post, in this thread...

http://www.wisewomenunite.com/index.php/topic,404.0.html

your daughters may conform to your family get togethers, however, your son married a woman who is not connected to your family, except by marriage, and you have to learn to allow them to be where they want to be....you say, your DIL becomes rude to you when you ask her to join your family...I'm asking you, "When she says 'no" do you listen?  Or, do you contine to expect her to be there, without even hearing her words of no, or that she doesn't want to come? 

Does she work?  Does your son work, what kind of hours do they work, plus drive a week?  Are you retired, do you work? 

Lets, discuss what your expectations of your son and DIL are, and lets look at they're life...

do you push yourself on they're more personal & financial capabilities...?

Lets talk about what started this all...your feelings, and then try and look at your son's and DIL's feelings.... maybe, just maybe, if you back off and let them alone...they will come to you...but your going to have to stop putting pressure on them, b/c when you do that, it feels like your being strangled...and all you want to do is live your own life....make your own household rules...so, lets get more in depth about this situation of yours and see if we, together can't work it out...along with the other MIL's and DIL's here...they are very wise women....and you've come to a great sanctuary for help...I love this forum...and the ladies involved, give so much of they're time and thoughts to help others.

I just think that some of these problems are easily worked out if we just learn to give a little more, without taking things personally...and I repeat, Hope, that I do care and only wish to help others not make the same mistakes I may have made....if I can do that, then my life will have purpose....


Hugs and love
Creme


luise.volta

I think the money thing, like C/ just wrote, has a lot to do with how we were brought up, preferences and comfort levels. It's part of our value structure and belief system.

I will write a little about my point of view since I am not a private person and don't care what anyone knows about me. I am a very solitary person but that's different.

I don't have much, as I wrote previously, due to an investment scam of huge proportions. What I do have and don't need (because we live very simply) goes out to those near and dear (and some not so near) in two forms: loans and gifts.

The loans need to be paid back as planned or it is the last loan. (No one has ever defaulted and I've been doing this for 60 years.) Payback is fully discussed and agreed upon in advance. The loans can, under dire circumstances, be renegotiated but they have to be fully retired. I don't charge anyone interest unless I have to borrow the money to loan it, which rarely happens. There is never any paperwork.

For those who are not in a position to pay me back, I never set up a loan and create further problems. The money goes out to them as a gift and that is clearly understood on both ends so we can both be comfortable.

I just got a $2,000. IRS refund. I don't believe in putting excess money someplace on a shelf if someone needs it. And someone did. Last year I donated $2,500. to see that a young friend who has never had a break that I know of could go to Ireland and run in a marathon.

I have separate savings that my son is in charge of. A just-in-case fund for whatever might be needed when my 98 year-old DH leaves and I have to adjust to living on $1,600. a month; new tires, etc.  $70,000. By agreement with my son, none of it can be loaned out or given as gifts...for his peace of mind.  ;D

It seems to me that if we all wrote about our personal finances, as I just have in the attempt to offer an example, we would find as many philosophies as we have members. I'm definitely not suggesting that anyone do that. What I have written is to illustrate how personalized our approach to money is.

I currently have an excess of $1,000. and I feel rich. A close relative has multi-millions and feels poor. He's very anxious...I'm just fine.  Isn't that interesting?  ???

Be kind whenever possible. It is always possible. Dalai Lama

Hope

Thanks, Creme.  After reading your words, I feel like I have a lot of explaining to do. Our DS moved out on his own at 21 years of age. He has worked under my husband's supervision (at a company we do not own) for 14 years.  DH works in an office, but DS works out in the field.  Their paths do cross regularly, but I rarely see or hear from DS.  When he began dating DIL, he was 25 years old and broke it off with her after about 6-9 months because he said that she was "mean".  DS told me that she literally came crying back to him and the rest is history.  And you are right about DIL coming from a dysfunctional family - lots of professed alcoholism - parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles.  That was a concern of mine before they married, but it was not our decision to make.  We were told many times by DIL before they were married that she couldn't stand her only sibling - which I found very sad.  We have not tried to tell DS what to do in their relationship or otherwise - we stay out of their business.  My reference to our financial support was meant as evidence that we are kind to them because they are important to us - and we have told them how much we love them and how much we want them in our lives.  We did not offer any suggestions about their wedding - we did not expect anything in return for our contribution - the guests had no idea we helped out.  Furthermore, we have never made mention to DIL/DS of our contribution since.  We have offered our help with home projects (painting, remodeling), but we do not offer advice.  We do not go over their house uninvited.  As far as 1/3 of our life savings - it was to help them with their infertility, which was a long expensive process.  It is not a loan - rather a gift that we openly gave with the verbal understanding that we do not expect to be given any special GP priviledges - or anything else in return.  Our hearts just broke watching them go through the torture of not being able to be parents.  I have told myself over and over, "don't expect any phone calls from them, don't expect them to pick up the phone when I call them, don't expect a return call from my messages, don't expect any visits from them, etc.".  Believe me, all of us - me, DH, OD, YD - all walk on eggshells around DIL.  DIL refused to speak to our younger daughter for six months once because of something our YD innocently said that offended DIL.  DIL has been hurtful to our OD as well. I have had to use all my self control not to make a pest of myself.  In early January they did accept a dinner invitation from us which was a nice surprise and it went very well.  I left a couple messages for DS since, but did not get a response.  My husband and I are not wealthy, we are not retired, and we work full time.  DS is working full time, but DIL has had the workplace blues.  Over the time we have known her (7 years), she has worked six different places and is currently a hair dresser, renting out space that is costing her more than she is earning.  (Her business is slow so she only works part time, but rents full time.)  I agree that I have put pressure on my DS/DIL about getting together to do things with the family.  Just asking them to get together with us was putting pressure on them - I didn't beg, use guilt trips, or anything like that.  I just wanted them to join us b/c I felt like the family was fractured w/o them, but since I have backed off.  I had to learn the hard way that they didn't share my desire about our family closeness.  They do enjoy close friendships with DS's faternal cousins though since there are many around his age.  My expectations?  I just always assumed that our children would be close to the family b/c that's the way both our extended families are.  I never imagined that DS would be unkind to me, not answer my calls or visit.  Before DS was married, we never had words or tension.  He never turned down an invitation to get together without a good reason.  Now his hugs are at a distance and only pats on the back - boy, do I miss those bear hugs!  Now at times he uses a disgusted tone in his voice when he talks to me.  What are my expectations?  Nothing.  Nothing.  What are my wishes?  An occassional call, visit, bear hug, answer to my call.  His genuine concern for us - ask how we are doing.  I can't speak on their expectations - they have never stated them.
I really want to be a better M/MIL, so I have to be honest here.  I have made other mistakes.  I made a comment once that they never get together with my side of the family - only my husband's extended family.  At Christmas when my DS gave me a distant patting hug, I told him that I wanted a "real" hug, which didn't go over well.  When my DIL had a surprise bday party for DS and we were asked to help out, we put a lot of effort into what she needed.  But before the party, she took real offense when I innocently asked her if she wanted me to clean her back door window where their dogs had smeared mud all over it.  That is the only time she ever sounded angry to my face.  I realize that she was very stressed, but honestly I was just trying to help her to get ready for a house full of guests.  I think I've done wrong by persistantly asking them to participate in family get togethers.  Also, DIL was introduced to our family when OD was in a very bad marriage.  I shared with DIL some of the mean things that OD's husband was doing/saying.  DIL knew how much I wanted to see OD out of that unhealthy marriage and I realize now that that was a big mistake.   One of my biggest problems is that I talk too much.  I need to work on that. 
I just read Luise's reply and I appreciate her input. What a huge heart she has!!!!!!!! I have to admit that that is another area that I am weak.  I am NOT generous.  It may sound like I am, but really I'm not generous like Luise is.  We gave DS money toward their wedding b/c we decided to give to all our children equally in that respect, boy or girl.  I had to think long and hard before agreeing to give such a large portion of our life savings to the fertility cause.  Three different members of my DH's family have borrowed money from us and have NOT paid it back and never will.  I refuse to loan money to them another time.  None of them were out of work or had a real emergency.  One wanted to invest, one was just irresponsibie, one wanted money for a big wedding.  No reason to not repay us - just irresponsibility.
Thanks for trying to be honest with me and help me.
Hugs, Hope

cremebrulee

Hello Hope, thanks for coming back, I was worried that I scared you off, or put you in a position where you felt you had to defend yourself...that wasn't my intent, it's just easier, to know more of the story, and to help each other understand the how's and why's, and now I do...so thanks so very much....

I understand everything you say...and feel...we are a problem solving support group of women who have been through almost the same scenarios...you will find, if you haven't already, by reading our testimony's that the DIL's whom we have trouble with have the same type of character's either b/c they were given everything they wanted, or came from dysfunctional families.  I wish more of them would realize they're shortcomings, rather then set off to blame MIL for everything...

You were not wrong in trying to help your DIL, however, the only reason I know this, is by reading on other DIL sites...and sometimes, you have to have a very strong stomach to do that...so I wouldn't suggest it for everyone...

Hope, when you were trying to help your DIL, by suggesting to clean her window, she took it as a huge disgrace, that you were suggesting that she is a bad housewife/cleaner....I know and you know, you didn't mean it that way, however, when you do that to someone who is insecure, that is how they are going to take it.

I've read where DIL's say, they absolutely hate it when they're MIL's come to visit, b/c they're MIL's rearrange they're kitchen cabinets, or clean for them....it makes them feel insufficent and like we don't approve.  Again, please know, you were not wrong, and your intent was helpful...however, a young, insecure woman, is going to take everything we do as an insult, or like we're purposely trying to demean them. 

The rest of what you said, I do understand....if it helps, things got so bad between my DIL and I, that I actually feared showing my son any attention...and maybe, your DIL, is constantly complaining about how much attention he shows you, that she has conditioned him to feel uncomfortable to love you...my son has done the same thing...once, he met me at the airport and there was no hug, nothing...and I was shocked....but realized, she was probably complaining all week long about me coming...I didn't get it, until it was way to late, that I wasn't welcome in they're home.  I was in denial, and constantly kept telling myself, we're going to work this out, and the harder I tried, the more she hated me...and the more she tried to leave me know, I was not welcome there....I knew, in my heart, she was looking for ammunition to cut me off completely, and she has...what exactly it is, I don't know or don't care...what I do know is, a caring person, doesn't do that...and what we mother's worry about so much, even though we haven't come to terms with it....is...that if our DIL's treat us that way, to the point of cutting us off, making our son's feel embarrassed of us, or afraid to show us affection, well, that is not love, and we know, in our hearts, that our DIL's cannot really love our sons.  My DIL never had love, how can you give, what you've never known.  All she knows, is that she never had anyone love her before, therefore, he is her's and her's alone.

Hope I really am sorry if I was to blunt, or seemed cold hearted, I am only concerned with helping each other here understand...sometimes by understanding better, we can help ourselves which in turn may help the DIL...however, my experiences are not yours...yours are not mine...there are differences....and yet, so much alike in many ways...

I'm sorry you and your family are made to deal with this heartbreak....and all I can offer you is, love and support...even if, it's something that is hard for you to hear....however, in your situation, I fear, there is not much you can do, but back off...and hope your son and she get the idea.

You see, women who estrange they're husband's from family are doing it for several reasons...

they cut off they're husband's network of support....so they are the only influence...
They fear they're husbands love us more then them, what they don't understand is, they're husbands love them more, in a different way....
They think if they cut us out of they're lives, they gain full control
They are insecure and afraid....and by controlling they're husbands in this way, it assures them of attention, which they are in great need of...
They hate us, b/c we are not they're mothers, they don't understand the love between a mother and child because they never had it....so,it's weird to them, and I've seen where some DIL's call they're husband's mamas boys...b/c they talk to they're mothers...and on and on...my point is...Hope, they are from a whole different culture then we are...they don't understand closeness of family...they never had it...and they want they're husband's all to themselves....as well as they're children...

A loving, mature, healthy woman, understands the need for people to have interations with friends, family etc.  She also does not understand, the more role models in they're children's lives, gives they're children more potential...they do not see they're selfishness as a flaw, but more in they're own minds, self preservation....if that makes any sense....

thanks for coming back and sharing....that is what we're here for....and I hope, if you see me saying or doing something wrong, you'll tell me...I don't want to hurt anyone, the way I've been hurt...however, and this is no excuse, but I grew up with all boys in my neighborhood, which is why I guess I come off so cut and dry...but believe me, I am trying to change that....

Hugs
Creme