Controlling People

[Hope]

Creme, I love what you said below.  It's great advice that I need to act on more myself.  I've heard the same from close friends/family regarding my situation.  The absence of DS/DIL at family functions causes a breakdown in the "wholeness" of our family.  We have gone ahead and planned fun things to do anyway and have had loads of fun with our older daughter and her husband who are very good about seeing us.  My sister has a DIL that has been horrid to them and their DS/DIL turned down their invitation to an all expense paid, once-in-a-lifetime family vacation to Europe, but the rest of the family accepted.  I think it made their DS/DIL think twice after they heard how wonderful things went on the vacation and their situation did change for the better since.  How more difficult it is for those of you who don't have other children to enjoy.  My heart aches for you.  Hugs, Hope


Hey Pen
If I may offer a suggestion, why don't you start planning around you and yours, and if they come fine, if not fine, however, don't be available everytime they decide....plan things to do, and go have fun doing them?         Creme

[cremebrulee]

Hope
Creme, My sister has a DIL that has been horrid to them and their DS/DIL turned down their invitation to an all expense paid, once-in-a-lifetime family vacation to Europe, but the rest of the family accepted.  I think it made their DS/DIL think twice after they heard how wonderful things went on the vacation and their situation did change for the better since.  How more difficult it is for those of you who don't have other children to enjoy.  My heart aches for you.  Hugs, Hope

Hope, Hi again....

I would have to hear more of the story, but my son, invited me on a vacation with him, his wife, his step mother, his father....

Hope, once your children get married, life as you know it changes, forever...and we must adapt...we can't expect them to adopt our family traditions, and if our children, don't want to go along on a family vacation, it is they're choice....our children sometimes need to move on without us, which is so difficult for some mothers to adapt to...but, we can't expect it to be the same...

I would never go on a family vacation with my son and his wife...nor would I expect them to go with me...however, my girlfriends children and DIL's and SIL's all get along very well, and they do go on vacations together, however, they're son's took the time to find woman to marry that grew up like they did, so they are mentally compatible.  My DIL is not, and probably neither is yours or your girlfriends...my son, had to conform to her way of thinking in order for the marriage to survive...which is a lot of times, what our son's do. 
However, we must remember, it's they're lives, and I don't care what how you might deem a vacation a chance of a lifetime, it is still my time involved with people that I might not want to be with day in and day out for 5, 7 or 10 days....and that is they're choice, which a lot of us, actually refuse to acknowledge....

again, please understand, I'm not trying to hurt anyone's feelings.  The fact that I was a dil, helps me understand, two things...first, when our son's marry, we can't expect them to continue to adhear to the family traditions which we started while they were at home living with us...and 2.  if they don't come or want to go on a family vacation together, or family activities...we can't take it as a personal attack against us....
let me explain if I may...
my hubby had a huge family, there were always family holiday activities, then graduations, even children's confirmations, etc...the list went on and on, and I hated life then....every weekend, there was something we had to go to...and I worked a full time overtime job, and my weekends, were very valuable to me...but I never got down quiet time, to read, to relax, to watch tv...due to all these family outings...for me, it was a very hard life, demanding, and wasn't much fun....and I think we need to take a look at that as MIL's...and try to understand from there perspectives, that we cannot expect them to live out our dreams..of what we think is a perfect family....they need they're own down time, space, etc. 

In the same, if the Dil, is gravitating her husband away from his family and towards hers, all the time, then that is not fair either...somehow, a happy plane must be reached by fairness, understanding and maturity....we can't always have it the way we want it....yanno?

[Pen]

Creme, we plan our own activities...but it's just DH & me. Sometimes DDD (dear disabled daughter) can come along. We have no other family within visiting distance. DIL doesn't like our friends, so if we plan anything with them it's a guarantee that DS & DIL won't show up. DH wants the door to remain open, so we don't plan much with friends (breaks my heart.) We enjoy our time, but there are occasions when a family/friends get-together is called for and we are left out. DS's family gets it all. I know I'm envious, and I know envy is an immature emotion, but I have a hard time with it - it pops up and gets the better of me just when I think I've overcome it!

Luise, I know I sound like I'm whining and that I have it better than a lot of MILs here. I try to be grateful for the little we get, actually. I really do. I think it's the imbalance between DILs family and ours that trips me up.

[cocobars]

Creme,
You have to understand that even as a DIL, I believe you were very understanding.  You gave everything to your IL's, to the point of having no personal time.  This speaks volumes about what kind of an understanding and caring person you are proving to be on this site alone.  I'm not sure I would have been able to give that much to my IL's, and even with your assumption that you be available to "what came up" with your husbands family, if that were me - I would have had to opt out - even if occasionally.  LOL! 

Pen,
You are NOT whining.  Anyone would feel that way in your shoes.  You are riding in the "trunk," without the consideration of even being given the "back seat" (see Sassy's post on back seats)!

There may be no right or wrong when it comes to IL's.  Just understanding.  When that understanding becomes one-sided, it's just "all wrong." 

Feel that?  It's me hugging you both!!

[cremebrulee]

Creme, we plan our own activities...but it's just DH & me. Sometimes DDD (dear disabled daughter) can come along. We have no other family within visiting distance. DIL doesn't like our friends, so if we plan anything with them it's a guarantee that DS & DIL won't show up. DH wants the door to remain open, so we don't plan much with friends (breaks my heart.) We enjoy our time, but there are occasions when a family/friends get-together is called for and we are left out. DS's family gets it all. I know I'm envious, and I know envy is an immature emotion, but I have a hard time with it - it pops up and gets the better of me just when I think I've overcome it!

Luise, I know I sound like I'm whining and that I have it better than a lot of MILs here. I try to be grateful for the little we get, actually. I really do. I think it's the imbalance between DILs family and ours that trips me up.

Hi Pen....I sure do know the envy...believe me, it's a perfectly normal human emotion....which we can sometimes not help...the fact that you are able to identify it as being wrong and work on it, or even try to, but fail...is a good indication that someday, you will be successful in doing so...

one thing, I wouldn't do, is "not do things with my friends", to leave the door open for son and DIL...honey, your missing out on so much...so much...and I feel bad that hubby is doing that...

if DIL and son want to spend time with you, then make yourself a date with them that suits both partys and by all means, don't break a date/plans with friends, cuz son calls and wants to do things with you...tell them, Ohhhh darn, we have plans already with so and so, but how bout on this date, and keep going until you find a mutually agreeable date, but let them call you...in the meantime, don't sit around waiting for them to call...this is the only life you get, and it's your time to enjoy...one never knows how much time we have left....
and you must get your husband to understand, he must stop depending on your son and dil for happiness...it is the hardest thing to do, but it is a must...we must adapt to and move on....

and yanno, once you start doing that, everything else stranegly starts falling into place...

it's the old human desire, of wanting what we want, when we want it...and when we let go, that is acceptance and allowance, which brings us peace...tranquility, and then everything else starts falling into place....

and Pen, your lucky you have a hubby to do things with...I have no one, no son, no grandchild, no dil, no husband...but having no husband is by my choice....I fear another relationship...and do enjoy my independence....but when you get to feeling down, b/c it's just you and hubby, thank God you have him....to do things with....to share life with...

and just another note....next time you don't understand your DIL's idea of family...know this....she didn't have what you had in family...she developed a whole different set of rules and culture from her parents, or whoever her role models were, it's all she knows...it's no excuse to treat people so unjustly, but it's all she knows...anything else doesn't feel right to her...she is unable to see your point of view, only her own...

does that make any sense?

[cremebrulee]

Creme,
You have to understand that even as a DIL, I believe you were very understanding.  You gave everything to your IL's, to the point of having no personal time.  This speaks volumes about what kind of an understanding and caring person you are proving to be on this site alone.  I'm not sure I would have been able to give that much to my IL's, and even with your assumption that you be available to "what came up" with your husbands family, if that were me - I would have had to opt out - even if occasionally.  LOL! 

Pen,
You are NOT whining.  Anyone would feel that way in your shoes.  You are riding in the "trunk," without the consideration of even being given the "back seat" (see Sassy's post on back seats)!

There may be no right or wrong when it comes to IL's.  Just understanding.  When that understanding becomes one-sided, it's just "all wrong." 

Feel that?  It's me hugging you both!!

thanks for the hugs hun, greatly appreciate...however, please don't give me credit where credit is not due...I will honestly say, I was a very unhappy DIL which helped to cause problems with our marriage...however, it wasn't because his mother was a pain in the butt...it was b/c I didn't know how to say no....and set limits and boundaries...b/c I feared hurting her feelings...however, if I had sat down and talked to her...she may have taken offense at first, but I believe  when she thought about it later, she would understand....

and believe me, if a MIL/DIL is sensible and wanting a relationship with us, they will try and understand, and view an issue from her DIL's/MIL's perspective...

People who are good natured, and possess a desire to get along with others, do not cut themselves or they're loved ones off from family....
a loving caring understanding and mature person would not do that...

lets face it, in all walks of life, , there are just times when it's better to suck it up and do something for others, instead of for ourselves all the time...which is a concept my DIL, and many other family members here do not know anything about...but cha know, you can't win all the time, sometimes you need to step aside and allow others they're day in the sun....and when I do that, it makes me so happy...my heart sings....I dunno, maybe I'm an ol' sentimental slob, but I love nothing more, then sitting and watching people, especially when they're happy, having fun, laughing or whatever...love to be a people watcher....

[renny97]

Would it be a dealbreaker?

A friend asked to "take/drive" me to an appt. in another city, confirmed it the day before and then arrives 1/2 late with no explanation. I was talking to her answering machine stating that I was leaving. She then, shows up, and "pretends" to act like I got her invitation confused. She backs up her vehicle and says that is so I can back mine up (to drive). The only reason I accepted, was because it was an appt. that had me very nervous and the driving distance. She was hanging her head, and could barely look at me, but said, sorry for the confusion.? So, I gathered my wits and off we go. I was rushed now trying to make up time. I was seething, but could not let that get to me now. I should have just told her to bale and go home. I just wanted a little support, and regret ever agreeing.

This isn't the first disappointment. There is barely a friendship. It seems of convenience. But I find myself filled with anxiety around her. I caught her nosing threw my papers on my table once. We both are alone. But, I don't think I need this anymore. I think it is my time in my life to speak up. I am getting this title of doormat, or something and I don't like it.

I am going through rough times, and it didn't bother me we didn't hang out much. But, again, the little contact is just as upsetting and, is making dealing with the other matters more anxious.

I thought at times, the things she did, I overlooked, But, people mistake kindness as some kind of naviety?

It just keeps raining life here??? (metaphor)  Why do people go to such extremes? Lieing? Manipulation?

[cocobars]

Renny, this is so disappointing and understandable.  Sometimes I think we outgrow our friends, because we may have overlooked things in the begining of those friendships that were not so attractive.  Like any relationship, when we notice that our friendships are one-sided it hurts and sometimes it's just time to move on, but sometimes it just means you need a break from eachother. 

My best friend used to have me over every night for happy hour at her house.  We would talk about our work day, children, husband, family - just every thing.  She ran low on money at one point and I brought dinner.  The next night I cooked some fried chicken, mashed potatoes, southern gravy, peas and had some carrots and dip on the side while they waited (her, her hubby and son).  When she got her paycheck she started to buy groceries and tell me she bought something she thought I might cook for them.  I didn't mind.  For awhile.  She stopped doing her dishes and cleaning her kitchen, so I had to do that first.  I finally had to put a stop to it, because I ended up coming over each night to clean and cook, while they sat at the dining table and talked to me and had happy hour!  LOL!  I never said anything to her because I didn't want to hurt her feelings.  I just stopped coming (sort of busied myself up for awhile).  The only reason I'm telling you this is that you don't have to break it off with your friend.  Sometimes taking a break is all that's necessary.  It's really up to you and how you feel about your friend. 

I can get treated like a doormat also.  Sometimes I think people mistake kindness as naivete - you may be right.  Relationships are two sided though.  I've had my best friend for 26 years now.  We've working through alot of things and sometimes the friendship benefits her- then me other times.  I almost gave up, but found out that backing off for a bit worked better.  There is no right or wrong here.  If things are one-sided though, you may have reason to think about this friendship.  It may be break-time, that's all. 

Our friends are important sources of support and understanding.  Keep this in mind.  You may just have to talk to her and let her know what you are going through and that you need her support right now.  Being stressed or exhausted puts a different perspective on your view of things. 

I hope things work out for you!  Feel this hug?

[luise.volta]

R - I feel it is important to create quality friendships. I am wiling to give a lot and bend a lot if it's a two-way street but I am not interested in spending much time with someone I don't have much in common with. I know it's a strong word...but the kind of treatment you describe is something I consider abusive. It smacks of invalidation, rejection, lack of consideration, etc. etc. Why would I ever seek that out or invest in it? If I don't respect myself, who will?

[renny97]

Thank you, Coco.

I do feel very vulnerable in my life. But, I didn't address a lot of issues with her because it was okay that she barely came around and without invitation or a call. But, she was always dropping in more and more. And, there is this nosy-factor. I feel like she just gathered her "news" from me. It always feels like an interview. I answer questions. But, she has no emotion. She doesn't have many other friends, nor do I. But, I was not lonely. She always says she is. I don't want someone's "pretend" concern or whatever her mission is.

She never sits down? It is this wierd stop-by "thing"? So, one time, she told me about a piece of furniture for sale by her house. So, I went later, and stopped by her house (first time in years) and asked if she would help me lift it onto vehicle--there seemed to be a problem? As if I wasn't supposed to be at her house? She showed up at any time, but this was a big deal on my part? She claims to be super religious and her actions are otherwise.

That is the other issue. She constantly pressures me to go to church. I don't go to that particular one, because of her! I feel she is hypocritical. There have been many questions I asked, and she will avoid an answer only referencing the Lord. I believe, but this seems cultish? Again, unhealthy.

She seems almost bored by some very painful things I've had to deal with lately. It is time. Some "friendships" are only for a season. She just cannot be a friend. As she always repeated, "I have to go." That is true. Yes, it seemed to be one-sided and selfish.

I thought I could put up with a few visits, but if you can't call someone and tell them "I will be late" or "I have changed my mind, I don't want to take my vehicle" and then, lies about even asking you? Wow. That is RUDE.

[renny97]

Thank you, Luise. And, Hug to Coco. 

That is what I needed to hear. I don't get much good advice or people that can give any support around me lately--until I come to WWU. I don't have any siblings. And son's family, well you know that story....So, it is me, and a few kitties and an old dog. Ah, I asked the old girl, and she just gave me the look of "kibbles, please." 

Thanks, for reminding me, I cannot settle in my life.

[Pen]

Hey, Creme, thanks for your kind and thoughtful words. You make a lot of sense! And believe me, I am grateful to have a husband who wants to do things with me and who adores our DDD. That's not easy to find. And you're right about getting together with friends and not holding out for DS/DIL. They've disappointed us too many times. In fact, DH finally said that today! I think he may be coming around. He's also way ahead of me regarding envy...he just lets it go. I know there's hope for me.

Renny, I've had a "friend" who ended up taking advantage of me, too. I wasn't interested in at the beginning but she pushed and pushed until I gave in. She couldn't listen to anyone else, either. Narcissist? She suddenly quit our relationship when she made a new friend who wasn't as "depressed and needy" as I. Huh?? DH was thrilled to see her go! Now that I see this in writing I see a similarity with my relationship w/DIL.

You deserve the best! And aren't 4-legged friends the best? They put it all in perspective - it's all about the kibbles.

[renny97]

You deserve the best! And aren't 4-legged friends the best? They put it all in perspective - it's all about the kibbles.

Thank you, Pent. You are so right. I am not alone. That would make a good slogan; "It's all about the kibbles."  I believe the furbabies are smarter than those 2-legged ones, too.

Sooooo interesting your "friend" pushed being pals. This one, did that too. There was just nothing in common. I knew her from an old job. At first, I just thought she wanted to talk shop. But, now that I look back, I see many times she was a "promise breaker." I was looking into some info about bad relationships and they say the best way to end one is similar to the way in which it went wrong---I have to really think that over, but I never thought I'd see the day when I could really see how mean, spiteful, and downright evil people can be. I guess my question is, where does that come from? Really?

Now, I am kinda mad at myself once again, for allowing it. They say with every ending there is a new beginning and a "gift" that you are to learn from. A pattern of situations/people will keep repeating until we learn our gift/lesson. I guess I have to speak up early on...that seems to be an ongoing theme? And, people can show up but that doesn't mean they care. But, I knew that one.

[cocobars]

Renny, it looks like you have so many negatives on your plate with this friend.  As Luise said, she may not really be a friend at all and it doesn't sound like you have any give and take.  I think I would feel uncomfortabel in my own house if someone came in, but didn't sit down, much less started rifling through things. I might be able to forgive that one, but if I showed at her house and was met with an unwelcoming attitude, that would do it for me also!  No friendship should be like that.  Sometimes they may go through periods of one-sidedness, but then come back around.  I may be wrong about this, and Luise's response makes me think twice about my friend.  Maybe I'm too forgiving.  I'm not lonely either and have to say I'm enjoying living by myself (if you call what I'm doing living alone even).  I have one daughter left, the one who says she is going to "buy me a house."  I live in an apartment in the basement of the house, but my parents are right upstairs and we go back and forth.  My father has altzheimers and is the only one who can make the stairs to come down, but is there constantly asking me things - sometimes things he already knows.  The man who was always so intelligent is suddenly not sure of himself.  It's sad.  Anyway, I don't worry too much about being "alone" either.  It's solitude and I've grown to like it!  LOL!

I'm happy to have you here Renny.  And I'm also happy you come talk to us.  It's nice to know we all have this "wise council of women" to advise and guide us, and hold us up at times.  It's nice again to be able to hold everyone else up as they need it. We get a gift from either end of this spectrum.  This is friendship in it's truest form.  The kind of friendship we all want!

[cremebrulee]

Would it be a dealbreaker?

A friend asked to "take/drive" me to an appt. in another city, confirmed it the day before and then arrives 1/2 late with no explanation. I was talking to her answering machine stating that I was leaving. She then, shows up, and "pretends" to act like I got her invitation confused. She backs up her vehicle and says that is so I can back mine up (to drive). The only reason I accepted, was because it was an appt. that had me very nervous and the driving distance. She was hanging her head, and could barely look at me, but said, sorry for the confusion.? So, I gathered my wits and off we go. I was rushed now trying to make up time. I was seething, but could not let that get to me now. I should have just told her to bale and go home. I just wanted a little support, and regret ever agreeing.

This isn't the first disappointment. There is barely a friendship. It seems of convenience. But I find myself filled with anxiety around her. I caught her nosing threw my papers on my table once. We both are alone. But, I don't think I need this anymore. I think it is my time in my life to speak up. I am getting this title of doormat, or something and I don't like it.

I am going through rough times, and it didn't bother me we didn't hang out much. But, again, the little contact is just as upsetting and, is making dealing with the other matters more anxious.

I thought at times, the things she did, I overlooked, But, people mistake kindness as some kind of naviety?

It just keeps raining life here??? (metaphor)  Why do people go to such extremes? Lieing? Manipulation?

Hi Pen,

there were times in my own life, I gravited towards people like this, b/c I thought "I" needed them, the fact is, they needed me and I realized this....

Stand by your personal institutions, with head held up and proudly waving....your a very significant part of this world...believe it!

YOU dear lady choose your friends don't let them choose you...and I'm going to tell you, what a woman told me along time ago...follow that little voice inside, called instinct, as it's a God Given protective mechanism, that we've all been blessed with...if you feel it's wrong, then it most likely is....