March 28, 2024, 11:38:28 PM

News:

"Welcome to WiseWomenUnite.com -- When adult children marry and leave home, life can sometimes get more complex instead of simpler.  Being a mother-in-law or daughter-in-law can be tough.  How do we extend love and support to our mothers-in-law, adult children, daughters-in-law, sons-in-law, and grandchildren without interfering?  What do we do when there are communication problems?  How can we ask for help when we need it without being a burden?  And how do our family members feel about these issues?  We invite you to join our free forum, read some posts... and when you're ready...share your challenges and wisdom."


Re: The Talk

Started by Shelby, November 03, 2011, 12:28:49 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Doe

Quote from: Shelby on November 03, 2011, 01:32:56 PM
I don't care that they live a thousand miles away.  I just don't care anymore.

I hear ya, sista. 8)

I don't understand why my son chose a part-time shrew to marry and I'm glad that they are a long way away.






Sassy

QuoteIf my DH failed to call or send a card, you'd be darn sure I would, and make sure both names are signed.

Quote
QuoteIf DS had mailed a card (to GF? to you and DH?) and signed both his and DIL's name, would that have covered it?.

That would have absolutely thrilled both DH and me.

I think it would have been great if DS, knowing his wife's behavior as well as he does, would have been willing to step up and follow the kind of spousal behavior that was modeled for him.   

alohomora

What did luise write in that one thread? Something along the lines of - when you learn that others are the way they are, and accept it, you'll find more peace? Am I totally off?

I think that applies here - Shelby expected her DIL to do something, but it seems that is simply not in DIL's character.

I don't know that there is an obligation either. If the relationship is chilly at best, you're expecting her to do something out of her character (I think this is what Luise said? She said it so much better then I am expressing here darn it!)

I'm thinking about when my DH's GM died. I lit candles in our house and put her photos out and we had a little service in our house just the two of us. We couldn't attend because we are so far away. DH talked to his father several times that week.  He did so privately in the bedroom as he was having a moment(s) with his Dad. I didn't interfere.

DH sent a card and signed it from both of us. He also sent flowers on behalf of us. But I never spoke to my FIL or MIL. I supported my DH.

They called to thank us for the card and flowers. Again spoke to DH.

So there it is - they weren't upset with me. And I don't think I did anything wrong. I supported my husband, who in turn supported his family.

When my family member died I really had no expectation from the IL's either.

Sassy

I think the Luise quote (I keep a lot of them handy) you may be thinking of is this:

QuoteI once had a situation where, when I looked closely at it, I could see that the other person would have to be someone else to comply. I just had to let it go and move on because I actually wanted him to be somebody else.
[/size]

alohomora


Shelby

Quote from: pam1 on November 03, 2011, 02:48:12 PM
Quote from: Shelby on November 03, 2011, 01:50:30 PM
Quote from: Sassy on November 03, 2011, 01:43:37 PM
If DS had mailed a card (to GF? to you and DH?) and signed both his and DIL's name, would that have covered it?

That would have absolutely thrilled both DH and me.   :)

So there it is.  DS fell down on the job.  My question is why are you (as it seems, perhaps I'm wrong) more upset with DIL? 

I think it's nice you did things for your DH when he forgot.  But times are changing in this area, women generally do not go into marriages to be the social secretary.  I'm not saying whether it's right or wrong, that's another topic, it is what is now.

However, now that this is how it is the ball was clearly in your DS lap and he dropped it.  Directing your disappointment/upset towards DIL seems counter-productive.  I can't even think of a plausible solution to having a conversation about this with either your DS or DIL (regarding why DIL didn't acknowledge the death.)

When a more productive conversation would be why DS did not.

Pam - DS did NOT fall down on the job.  You missed earlier posts where I made it clear he had been attentive to his grandfather.   Please use correct facts.  And I certainly don't expect the woman to be the social secretary.  If DS had sent a card to which he had signed both of their names, it would certainly have covered for DIL.  However, DS doesn't need to COVER for his wife unless she is lacking in polite behavior.

Quote from: Doe on November 03, 2011, 02:53:20 PM
Quote from: Shelby on November 03, 2011, 01:32:56 PM
I don't care that they live a thousand miles away.  I just don't care anymore.

I hear ya, sista. 8)

I don't understand why my son chose a part-time shrew to marry and I'm glad that they are a long way away.



Shelby

Quote from: Doe on November 03, 2011, 02:53:20 PM
Quote from: Shelby on November 03, 2011, 01:32:56 PM
I don't care that they live a thousand miles away.  I just don't care anymore.

I hear ya, sista. 8)

I don't understand why my son chose a part-time shrew to marry and I'm glad that they are a long way away.


Doe - Thanks.  I needed that.  More than you know.
Hugs, Shelby

luise.volta

How'd you get so lucky? My eldest son married a full time shrew...

(Just trying to lighten this up a little...but...it's true.)
Be kind whenever possible. It is always possible. Dalai Lama

Sassy

QuoteHowever, DS doesn't need to COVER for his wife unless she is lacking in polite behavior. [/size]

DS was raised with polite behavior.  DS is aware DIL can be lacking in that kind of polite behavior. Or at least lacking in the kind of behavior he, as your son, knows would make you (or his DF, or GF) feel good.   He did need to cover for his wife.  DS didn't do what he needed to do to meet the expectations.  Expectations I expect he was far more aware of than DIL was.


Pen

Quote from: amflautist on November 03, 2011, 11:32:41 AM
Quote from: Pen on November 03, 2011, 09:36:36 AM
DS & I have always been fine. He calls, texts, visits & invites us to meet up when DIL is otherwise engaged. DH & I rarely instigate a meet up. DIL's FOO is overbearing, bossy and belittling, but they are inked in solid on DIL's (& therefore DS's) social calendar while mellow DH & I go about our business grateful for dribs and drabs. We defend DS/DIL's marriage and support it, so it would never come down to a choice for DS between his DW & his FOO. (I'm not sure DIL knows that we refused to dump on DIL with DS when he came here angry & frustrated by DIL's treatment of us. We told him she was his priority now & he had to work it out with her. I understood that might have been the last time I saw my DS, but it was the honorable thing to do.)

I guess DH & I should have been more forceful in promoting our FOO from the start, but it's not our style. We thought we'd be appreciated more for backing off. Oops! Our loss, DIL's FOO's gain. I'm wiser now, but alas have no more sons, lol.

Pen, you seem to have changed in this post.  Previously I have always heard that you thought it best to not rock the boat, to not discuss with DS the unequal treatment you receive.  I have taken a lot of cues from you, because my situation with DS is almost the same as yours.  Are you rethinking your hands-off approach?

AM, I'm still not ready to discuss our unequal treatment. I'm a big ol' chicken when it somes to self-advocacy. I have three jobs around DS & DIL: 1) don't cry  2)don't bring up problems & 3) don't talk about my needs or desires.

I'm thinking I should have planned more family activities that included DS & DIL. I should have filled up a more equal amount of time on their calendar & in their memory banks. I could have given DS family photos, nicely framed. We didn't do that because we were backing off and letting the newlyweds make their own way. What we didn't realize was that DIL's FOO would ooze into that vacuum and completely take over.

Now that I see this in writing I realize that may not have worked either. We couldn't have competed w/ the ILs financially, and the comparison between our activities and theirs would have been laughable. But I could have tried harder to put together camping trips, hikes, gallery crawls, beach days, etc. Perhaps DS would have enjoyed doing that stuff again. Maybe it's not too late?
Respect ... is appreciation of the separateness of the other person, of the ways in which he or she is unique.
-- Annie Gottlieb

Doe

Quote from: luise.volta on November 03, 2011, 04:25:29 PM
How'd you get so lucky? My eldest son married a full time shrew...

(Just trying to lighten this up a little...but...it's true.)

  :D Luise -  you make me laugh.

I think this must be a slow news day since we are chewing on this topic so thoroughly.  We're like a cable news channel sometimes!

Shelby, I think if my son starts talking to me again, I'll ask him to act as interpreter between DIL and me.  He seems to understand both our languages.  He doesn't need to take sides, just translate.

Sassy

I understand being hurt that your DH and FIL did not receive condolences.  I have been there.

Without going into details, I have lost several people very close to me.  For what is worth, the only time I was ever actually hurt by someone not sending condolences to me, was by someone I considered quite close.  Someone who at least pretended to care about me, for years and years.  Looking back, I understand that it was simply not in her to go to a dark place with me, even for a moment, even to offer comfort.  It was too painful for her, for her own reasons.  I have come to accept she has her limits just like the rest of us.  I'm not going to be expanding her limits of what she's willing to give to me.

It's rather like trying to wrestle an apology out of someone.  What's the point if they don't want to give one? Apologies, condolences...sharing deep feelings mean nothing if they're not authentic.  It becomes a farce.  A show.  And one that I'm directing no less?  I'll save us all the dog and pony show, and I'll save myself he expectations of thoughtfulness for those I feel really do give half a hoot about me.

I understand condolences weren't expected for yourself, but for DH and FIL.  After six years of chilly, DH and FIL are most likely already very aware they're not close, at all, to DIL.  I can't purport to speak for them, naturally, only myself. Maybe charades of caring from the otherwise uncaring do something for them that they just don't for me.  But I do hope you can find some comfort in that expectations for support and attention do tend to be very limited with people one has shared mainly chilly exchanges with. 

pam1

Quote from: Shelby on November 03, 2011, 04:12:59 PM
Quote from: pam1 on November 03, 2011, 02:48:12 PM
Quote from: Shelby on November 03, 2011, 01:50:30 PM
Quote from: Sassy on November 03, 2011, 01:43:37 PM
If DS had mailed a card (to GF? to you and DH?) and signed both his and DIL's name, would that have covered it?

That would have absolutely thrilled both DH and me.   :)

So there it is.  DS fell down on the job.  My question is why are you (as it seems, perhaps I'm wrong) more upset with DIL? 

I think it's nice you did things for your DH when he forgot.  But times are changing in this area, women generally do not go into marriages to be the social secretary.  I'm not saying whether it's right or wrong, that's another topic, it is what is now.

However, now that this is how it is the ball was clearly in your DS lap and he dropped it.  Directing your disappointment/upset towards DIL seems counter-productive.  I can't even think of a plausible solution to having a conversation about this with either your DS or DIL (regarding why DIL didn't acknowledge the death.)

When a more productive conversation would be why DS did not.

Pam - DS did NOT fall down on the job.  You missed earlier posts where I made it clear he had been attentive to his grandfather.   Please use correct facts.  And I certainly don't expect the woman to be the social secretary.  If DS had sent a card to which he had signed both of their names, it would certainly have covered for DIL.  However, DS doesn't need to COVER for his wife unless she is lacking in polite behavior.

Quote from: Doe on November 03, 2011, 02:53:20 PM
Quote from: Shelby on November 03, 2011, 01:32:56 PM
I don't care that they live a thousand miles away.  I just don't care anymore.

I hear ya, sista. 8)

I don't understand why my son chose a part-time shrew to marry and I'm glad that they are a long way away.



I read all your posts.  I disagree with you.  It was up to your son to send condolences for his family members and sign his families name to it.  IMO, the disappointment is being directed in the wrong direction. 

It's easier to blame those not close to us for our hurt feelings rather than people that are close to us.  It's a lot easier for me to blame MIL when really DH made a boo boo.

People throw rocks at things that shine - Taylor Swift

Doe

This is getting a little weird for me.  If I was a new person to the forum and had gotten this kind of response to my question, I would never have come back. 

Can we take Luise's advice and lighten up?

luise.volta

D - Whenever it starts to feel like that...move over to another subject.
Be kind whenever possible. It is always possible. Dalai Lama