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The Talk

Started by momof2, November 02, 2011, 10:20:52 AM

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jdtm

QuoteAs a DIL to a MIL to a DIL who's decided I am bad for her son, bad for her family, unloving, selfish, materialistic...I am acutely aware that my whole marriage, life, dreams, and future rests on my DH's ability to be able to see, on every level, that the single mother who raised him, is fundamentally "wrong."

Let me rephrase this - as a MIL who's decided that I am bad for her son, her family, unloving, selfish, materialistic (and crazy to boot) ... I am acutely aware that my efforts in parenting unselfishly and loving and giving without any expectations or reciprocations rests on my son to believe that I am and never was the "evil" person that is broadcast to a world of listeners and gossipers.  I can't defend myself and having to go from an esteemed member of a family and a church and a career and a neighbourhood to "crazy" is very hard, indeed.  Momof2 - both sides are equally painful. 

jdtm

Quote from: jdtm on November 03, 2011, 07:44:47 AM
QuoteAs a DIL to a MIL to a DIL who's decided I am bad for her son, bad for her family, unloving, selfish, materialistic...I am acutely aware that my whole marriage, life, dreams, and future rests on my DH's ability to be able to see, on every level, that the single mother who raised him, is fundamentally "wrong."

Let me rephrase this - as a MIL who's DIL has decided that I am bad for her son, her family, unloving, selfish, materialistic (and crazy to boot) ... I am acutely aware that my efforts in parenting unselfishly and loving and giving without any expectations or reciprocations rests on my son to believe that I am and never was the "evil" person that is broadcast to a world of listeners and gossipers.  I can't defend myself and having to go from an esteemed member of a family and a church and a career and a neighbourhood to "crazy" is very hard, indeed.  Momof2 - both sides are equally painful.

Doe

Quote from: jdtm on November 03, 2011, 07:44:47 AM
I can't defend myself and having to go from an esteemed member of a family and a church and a career and a neighbourhood to "crazy" is very hard, indeed.  Momof2 - both sides are equally painful.

Hear, hear, jdtm.   

jdtm

Sorry - meant to correct an error - not post twice (and still did not correct the error).

first sentence should read ..as a MIL whose DIL etc. etc. etc.

Sassy

Quote The difference is that I cannot face DIL head on because I'll lose DS. It may be awkward & painful for DILs to confront their MILs, but the risk isn't the same as it is for MILs who must confront a rude, overbearing DIL.

Pooh, I agree.  Pain is pain. Suffering hurts.  I was expouding specifically on something about risk of confrontation, written above.   Pen is right, the risk is not the same.  I really need to remember to include quotes on exactly what I'm referring to.  I think sometimes it might appear that all a DIL is risking, is her relationship with her MIL: someone she may not have known well or for very long, and may never have been close to.  For a MIL the possibile ancillary casualty of acknlowledged conflict with her DIL, is her bond with her beloved son.  It may be less obvious that for a DIL, the possible ancillary casualty of conflict with MIL, is her bond with her husband (and father of her young children).

lancaster lady

Also if the DS is weak he believes everything his DW tells him and cannot think for himself or make
his own judgements or opinions .
A stronger man would fight for his relationship with his Mom while trying to pacify his wife .
Most of them sit on the fence and let the women get on with it !
Of course there are mitigating circumstances , unless he is there to witness it , a lot of it is hearsay .
He could really sort a lot of friction out on both sides , but as usual he is trying to keep them both happy .
He could put his Mom in her place , he can also set his DW straight too , and we would still love him !
C'mon guys step up and control your women !!

Pen

I was speaking from my own experience & I understand everyone has their own perception. I should have made it more personal and less of a general statement.

Just for the record, I have experienced a broken marriage due to an overbearing MIL. It was very painful and left me in a shambles. But now I know the marriage wasn't strong to begin with - if my XDH could be so easily swayed by his DM, there wasn't a great foundation to build on anyway although I was madly in love. Speaking of financial security, I took a major hit when I divorced...XDH & his FOO were extremely wealthy & I took nothing, not even the engagement "boulder." Left all my stuff, got out & spent the next few years struggling to rebuild a life. Even when I'd get the big Christmas letter from XSIL detailing the FOO's ski trips in Europe or summers at the lake house, I was glad to be out of it. I'm grateful now that it turned out the way it did, because I married a great, supportive guy & have two wonderful AC.

The pain of my bad marriage and subsequent divorce in no way equals how I feel about being in last place now with DS/DIL or in threat of a cutoff if I make one misstep or stand up for better treatment. Losing access to a child, even an adult child, is immense for me. My now-DH would stand up for me against all comers, so no worries there. In my life, there's no risk in standing up to now-MIL (not that I would) but extraordinary risk in standing up to DIL. But that's just how it is for me.
Respect ... is appreciation of the separateness of the other person, of the ways in which he or she is unique.
-- Annie Gottlieb

Scoop

Lancaster Lady - CONTROL?  Really?  Ugh - I was with you until that last line.

Personally, I don't think a DIL can break a *strong* relationship between her DH and MIL.  She can stretch it, but not break it.  I think that the relationship can't have been too strong to begin with, if it's that fragile.

My MIL would tell you that she had a wonderful relationship with her DS before I came along.  However, it was only wonderful 'in her head'.  She didn't respect him as an adult.  Nor did she try to get to know the adult version of him.  She didn't see him as anything other than her little baby boy, in a grown up body.  Guess how well that's worked for her?

lancaster lady

I smiled when I saw your name up in reply ......that was meant to be the jokey bit .....love you Scoop  :)

Pooh

Quote from: Scoop on November 03, 2011, 08:40:49 AM
I think that the relationship can't have been too strong to begin with, if it's that fragile.

Ouch
We must let go of the life we have planned, so as to accept the one that is waiting for us. -
Joseph Campbell

Sassy

QuoteI think it's the boundaries thing again.  You protect your home and family from toxic people and situations. 

I agree!   When your DH loves the person engaging in toxic behavior, and you yourself feel genuine love for the person, hope springs eternal.  We love the person, not the behavior.  My DH is an only child raised by a single mother.  Mom was his FOO.   I know the pain cuts her not to have her son in her life.  I have seen the tears, heard the words and read the letters.

I confess that we both pray that our boundaries against her toxic behavior won't have to be a brick wall forever.   We're adults who have had other long term relationships.  We support ourselves.  We're in true love.  We've done premarital and post marital counseling about this.  We've invited her to counseling. He's invited her to three different counselors.  We both read this website regularly.  We've made our one contigency clear to each other and to her: When she doesn't call me horrible names, he / we will spend time with her.   We, and every counselor we've seen, thinks it's a reasonable, even necessary, contigency.  Still doesn't take away the pain of her absence for my DH, or for her.  He misses her! I miss her!

Not enough that DH thinks we should do what it would take for her to stop calling me names.  Such as, pay on her department store bills, take her on vacation with us, text or talk on the phone with her several times a day, have her drop by at her whim, ask for her opinion on our private matters and follow through on her suggestions.   He did pay on a lot of her bills, and repainted her condo almost every year, before we married.  I did talk and text with her daily, opened the door every time she knocked, and included her in some personal decisions, before we married.   When I turned down a weekend girls trip to Las Vegas with just her, she was horribly rejected.  When DH stopped paying on her bills to save for the wedding and plan for a home, she called me a golddigger. (She would be surprised if she knew about our finances).   She told DH's Grandmother, Aunt and cousins that I was, too.  It all went downhill from there.

My whole life I was encouraged to take responsibility for my actions, and consider how they affect others.  My whole life I was taught it takes two to tango and it takes two to argue.  Having to stay away from his mother, to protect our marriage from the slow erosion of hateful and blaming talk, feels selfish.  It might be the "good" kind of selfish, self-protection.  But it still feels selfish to me.  It's not lost on me that my failed relationship with my MIL, is the reason DH doesn't talk to his mother.  I'm not naive enough to think it can't feel that way to DH sometimes, too.  Or that it really won't feel that way when she's gone forever.  I have confidence in us as a couple, but I can't take for granted that our love will fix it all.  I am all too aware family rifts are serious and the pain runs deep, to hidden places where rational thought doesn't always shine.

Pooh

Beautiful post Sassy
We must let go of the life we have planned, so as to accept the one that is waiting for us. -
Joseph Campbell

Doe

Quote from: Scoop on November 03, 2011, 08:40:49 AM
Personally, I don't think a DIL can break a *strong* relationship between her DH and MIL.  She can stretch it, but not break it.  I think that the relationship can't have been too strong to begin with, if it's that fragile.

Do you have an hour for me to tell you the story of how this can happen?

Sassy

Thank you Pooh.  Thank you Luise for giving me this opportunity for catharsis.

QuoteI was speaking from my own experience & I understand everyone has their own perception. I should have made it more personal and less of a general statement.
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Pen I liked your statement.  I agree and I was expounding on it with my own corresponding perception, hoping it could be of value.  We all feel that looming threat of being unloved and rejected, if we take the risk of letting someone know what we want and what we find too painful to tolerate.  Reading about the pain of the very loving moms on this site has helped me maintain compassion for my MIL.  If I let myself harden too much and turn to bitterness, make his mother the other, I think most hope of reconcilliation would be off the table. 

Sassy

QuotePersonally, I don't think a DIL can break a *strong* relationship between her DH and MIL.  She can stretch it, but not break it.  I think that the relationship can't have been too strong to begin with, if it's that fragile.

Well, shoot.  Then, if a DH and his wife have a strong relationship to begin with, no mere MIL is any threat to break it either.

*fingers crossed mine is strong enough*