Undecided feelings need advice!

[Shelby]

AL - Call me old fashioned - but the son and DIL lived together for 5 years before getting married?  Then had a big wedding and asked you to pay $3,500 towards it?   After living together 5 years, surely a simple, quiet ceremony with immediate family and a handful of friends would be most appropriate. 

Did they pay rent or expenses when they lived with you?  I'm betting not. 

I would apologize. A sincere apology for anything you did over the course of their wedding that caused them stress or hurt feelings.

I disagree with alohomora that you should apologize.  If you have no idea what you did, how can you apologize?  You said you had walked on eggshells for 5 years while they lived with you.  That's enough.  Just leave them be - they have some growing up to do.  How old are they?  I'm guessing fairly young, if they lived with you and couldn't afford their own place. 

Take care of yourself.  Focus on your younger son.  This DIL sounds like a pill.  She may not last.

[Doe]

I agree with Shelby.  No apology, just move forward.

My diagnosis of the problem:  they should have been living on their own the minute they started living together.  There's just something odd to me being dependent on mommy when you're having sex in the next room on sheets that she washed that morning.  I think  your DS and DIL are a little confused about the adult world and they just have to figure it out.  But you don't have catch the fallout.   Give them lots of space (read:  give yourself lots of space from them)!

[Shelby]

I agree with Shelby.  No apology, just move forward.

My diagnosis of the problem:  they should have been living on their own the minute they started living together.  There's just something odd to me being dependent on mommy when you're having sex in the next room on sheets that she washed that morning.  I think  your DS and DIL are a little confused about the adult world and they just have to figure it out.  But you don't have catch the fallout.   Give them lots of space (read:  give yourself lots of space from them)!

Doe is 100% TOTALLY correct in everything she says.  You deserve to be around people who will treat you well -- not around some ingrates who take advantage of you then are abusive.  Take care of yourself.  It's much more fun to be around people who are nice to you.   

[Truth]

I agree with Shelby.  No apology, just move forward.

My diagnosis of the problem:  they should have been living on their own the minute they started living together.  There's just something odd to me being dependent on mommy when you're having sex in the next room on sheets that she washed that morning.  I think  your DS and DIL are a little confused about the adult world and they just have to figure it out.  But you don't have catch the fallout.   Give them lots of space (read:  give yourself lots of space from them)!

Doe is 100% TOTALLY correct in everything she says.  You deserve to be around people who will treat you well -- not around some ingrates who take advantage of you then are abusive.  Take care of yourself.  It's much more fun to be around people who are nice to you.   

[autumnlady]

Thank you all so much!  Pen, Doe, JDTM, Shelby and all others I am so happy right now.  I have thought there was something wrong with me.  I can't tell you what this means to me.  This site has been my salvation....my ONLY mistake was letting her live here and NO THEY PAID NOTHING AND DID NOTHING TO HELP ME.  But if her Mom and Dad needed something MY SON tripped over himself to help.  It was disgusting to watch...

I have learned my lesson and already told my YS that they WILL NOT be a repeat of what I did with his brother.  He understands. 

They have a way of making you feel small, wrong and that you are crazy when in fact it's the other way around.  I truly know now that DIL wanted him all to herself otherwise why make-up things.  I am going to take your advice and move on.  IT'S THEIR LOSS!  Hopefully one day I will get to meet my grandson if not I will send him love.

Thank you all so much words cannot express how I am feeling right now!  Love to you all!

[autumnlady]

BTW - They started dating at ages OS 23 DIL 20 - They married at OS 28 and DIL 25, now they are both a year older.....They are old enough to know better...!

[Nana]

Dear AL

I agree that you should not apologize.  See AL  when we apologize....we do it from our heart.  Because we really know we did wrong and the person receiving the apology was the victim.   But as you said, you still feel angry and/or offended.  It means that they were not fair to you.  Why apologize?  for things you did not do or said?   They might think you need to apologize because you asked  them to leave but again, you were frustrated with accusations and they did not hear your truth.  They did not give you the benefit of a doubt. 

If I were to write a note or letter to my son, I would only accept the responsibility of asking them to leave, not apologizing for anything else.  Why should I accept what is far beyond the truth.  I do feel that if you talk with your son...you cannot just swipe everything that happened under the rug.  The most important thing here for me is that you are not ready to begin a relationship with son and dil.  Give yourself time.  You will know in your heart when the time is right. 

Wondering if just sending good wishes for the baby would be okey. 

As much as we love our AC, we should love ourselves too.  We deserve to be treated with respect and dignity.  You will be fine, and I am sure your son will understand when he becomes a father, what is a parent's love.
Good Luck
Love

[Pooh]

Autumn, you and I have almost identical situations.  Here's something I have learned through all of my issues.  My DILs Mother is also an instigator and is not interested in finding out the truth, but telling her perception of everything.  DIL is going to believe her Mother.  DIL is going to report their truth to DS without coming to me and asking anything.  DS is going to believe his Wife, because she's his Wife and although there may be a little voice in the back of his head that reminds him that none of it sounds like something I would do, he has to live with her, her Mother is very much in DILs life, so he spends tons of time with both of them, and wants to keep the peace.  So it's easier for him to go "My Mom shouldn't have done all that" and agree with them so his life is more peaceful.  Yes, "Happy Wife, Happy Life".  Plus, his MIL is overbearing so you can add, "Happy MIL, Happy Wife, Happy Life."

Here's some of what happened at my OS/DIL wedding along with DILs and her Mother's stories of what happened.

DIL/M = We refused to socialize with any of their family and friends at the rehearsal dinner and wouldn't even come in and eat with anyone.

Truth =  DIL requested a cookout and me and DH spend hours grilling, keeping everything replenished and never sat down to eat ourselves until everyone was leaving.

DIL/M =  I came into the room where she was getting dressed with an attitude and set a plate of food down and left without saying a word.

Truth =  That part is true..Lol.  But what happened prior to that is her MOH came out, got in my Mother's face and demanded my Mother get up and fix DIL something to eat now!  My Mother had opened her home for this wedding, got booted out of her own rooms and had no where to get dressed because her family came in and took over the entire house.  That was Ok, and my Mother was understanding, but no one gets in my Mother's face and yells at her with me around.  I was furious, but didn't say anything, just kind of stood up and got between them, glaring at the MOH and telling her that I would take care of it.  I'm positive my face showed how furious I still was when I brought the food in.   The right thing to do?  Ask me what's wrong and then jump your MOH for being disrespectful to your FGM.

DIL/M = Told everyone that we showed once again that we wanted nothing to do with her or her family, because we went in the house and ate during the reception instead of in the tent with everyone else.

Truth =  It was 40 degrees, they had a tent in which my SF went and got heaters because it wasn't supposed to be that cold.  When my Mother, DH, SD, best friend, YS and I got into the reception, there was no where for us to sit.  The tables were full and standing in the cold doorway trying to eat was out of the question.  So we got our plates, went into my Mom's house and sat and ate.  After we finished, we went straight back out into the tent to see the cake cutting, etc. and stayed there the rest of the time, standing for about an hour until people started leaving, then we sat down.

I could go on and on about that day and perceptions.  Did everything we did lead DIL/M to those conclusions?  Yes.  We were trying to stay out of the way, not cause any issues and let DIL/OS have their day, so we were not saying anything.  Could they have asked us about it later to see what was happening?  Yes.  But they have to have a desire to do that and a willingness to communicate and want a relationship.  DIL and her Mother have never liked me.  So it is easier for them to take their truth and run with it?  Absolutely.  It holds up to the fact that they were right about us the entire time.

I'm saying all that Autumn to say that things you did could have looked totally different to DIL.  And like me, she has a Mother that added fuel to the fire.  You could apologize until you were blue in the face, but they have their truths and then it turns into "See, she will not even admit what she did and is making excuses.  See what I have been telling you about her?"  It's not about you, it's about them.  Look at the source.  My DIL and her MIL are gossipers.  They talk about everyone.  They both believe everyone should do what they say, no questions asked.  They both want their way, no compromising.  Look at them as individuals, not as your DIL and her Mother.  Are they like this with everyone?  If you can answer "Yes, they are", then you have your answer.

[Doe]

Oh, Pooh - your story brought memories of DS's wedding.  Totally different, but still uncomfortable.

I'm here to tell you moms who aren't invited to your DS's/DD's weddings - be careful what you ask for!  Sometimes these wedding experiences aren't that great.  If it's bad before the wedding, it's unlikely that the wedding is going to be a wonderful experience.

[Pooh]

I know what you mean Doe, but I am still glad that I got to see OS get married.  No matter what I thought about it, it was a special day to him.  I will not even pretend to know what it must feel like to not be invited at all.  That has to be devastating.

I should have added too that I was not a happy camper that day.  I was being gracious and not saying anything (and there was about 10 more things that happened).  I was remaining silent, but inside I was fuming over the mistreatment of my Mother and our family.  I have no poker face.  I am sure that although I was trying to be gracious, my face and body posture told how I really felt during certain times.  I did laugh and have fun with my friends and family, but I am honest enough to admit that I'm sure there were times I looked sour. 

[Shelby]

Dear, dear Pooh -- the bride's maid of honor demanded that your mother - the groom's grandmother - get the bride something to eat?  If I do the math, the bride may have been in her 20's, your mother in her sixties or perhaps older - nearly a half-century age difference?  And the 20-something snippet (I know snippet is name-calling, but I can't resist) demands that the 60 to 70ish grandmother serve the bride?  Why didn't you tell that snippy little MOH to get a plate for the bride?  Good thing I didn't deliver the plate to the bride.  I have a tendency to drop things and it would have been a shame to spill barbeque sauce all over her lovely white gown. 

[autumnlady]

Nana - I completely agree with you.  Yes I did ask them to leave and I can apologize for that act.  That was the first time I stood up to them both.  I always say I'm sorry even when I don't know what I'm sorry about. 

Pooh - We do have very similar stories.  DIL has always gossiped about her family to me but I never said anything because I really don't know them.  DIL and MOB gossip to anyone that will listen.  DIL had 2 bridesmaids that I never met but DIL told me that they were worried about what I was going to do at the wedding shower.  Now why would they be worried, I never met them.  Oh yes, DIL has filled them in on all the GOSSIP!  But OS is blind to this and it is surprising to me because OS is far from dumb, but he is now choosing to ignore the obvious to keep the peace.

On the day of their wedding It was pouring rain. 12/18/10.  I was the last of the wedding party to arrive at the venue because I was uninvited to the hair/make-up session via email my DIL said there was not enough time for me.  I was not upset but again kept outside of any fun that I might enjoy.  As I got out of the vehicle assisted by my YS and boyfriend, I had a long dress so as not to get it soaked I needed help.  I walked into the room and no one was around except MOB, so I asked "Where is everybody?"  DIL Mom told DIL that as soon as I got to the venue I screamed at her "Where is everybody?"  Now why would I scream, she was standing right in front of me???  Again, it was told to DIL and OS so I am a terrible person. I found myself always defending what I had said.  Some of the time it was part truth and alot of the time I couldn't remember ever saying what they accused me of saying. 

I think the funniest part was at the last dress fitting, the woman that owned the shop told me that "I am not the crazy one, they are".  I asked what she meant, she told me, DIL and her mother said I was a bossy, mean and I wanted everything my way and I wanted to control the wedding.  The woman begged me not to tell them because she said the MOB was "crazy", her words not mine..  Anyways, my BF was with me and I just looked at him.  BF had told me years ago when he first met DIL's mother to be careful and not trust her, well I did not listen.  He read her right, she is a trouble maker.  DIL Mother has nothing to do with her husbands family since they were married because they were mean to her.  I think it's the other way around...LOL

Doe - You are very wise and I kept my mouth shut so I could attend the wedding but I don't know if it was worth it.  I have never seen or was given 1 engagement picture or 1 wedding picture. I was not included in anything, I wanted to give her a wedding shower and was told no.  I don't even care anymore (sadly that statement is true).  I also know that I will miss seeing my grandson, I really have no feelings at this time.  I know that she will use the baby as leverage and I don't want that for the child or for me. She already told my YS "doesn't she know what she will be missing?"  I would rather not see the baby then to get to know the little one and have it taken away.  DIL thrives on control and hopefully she will grow up one day, but I know my OS is scared to upset her, because she will leave him.  Again his words to his brother in confidence 2 weeks before the wedding. 

I am a very family oriented Italian mother who loves her boys and is loud, silly, passionate, opinonated and enjoys cooking and entertaining for her family and friends.   This was interpreted by my DIL and her mother as I want it all about me and I want to control everything. DIL complained to my OS about this behavior and instead of him saying this is OUR family traditions, he agreed that I had a problem to keep the peace.  I feel sorry for him now, because he had sold his soul and my YS said OS is not happy he feels abandoned but he is the one that pushed us away. 

I do have my faults but never have I intentially gone out of my way to be hurtful or cruel, unfortunately, I CANNOT say the same about DIL, OS AND HER FAMILY! 

Thanks again for listening.   Sending hugs to all!

[Pooh]

Oh yes, that sounds familiar too.  I didn't go to any dress fittings, and honestly...I didn't want to.  I guess I'm weird, but I'm not under the opinion that an MIL should attend those.  If there is a good relationship, and they are wanted, then fine.  I just didn't expect it.  But what myself and my Mom were wearing?  I asked DIL for 3 months what type of dress she wanted me and GM to wear, and what colors.  She always answered, "I don't know".  I asked what her Mother was wearing so we could kind of match, but not be in the same color, because I thought her Mother should have first choice on color and style, and I would follow suit.  The answer was always, "She hasn't got a dress yet."  So 2 weeks before the wedding I asked again and got "She doesn't know" so I told her we needed to find something as we were running out of time.  Her answer was, "Get whatever you want."  So we did.  5 days before the wedding, she shoots me a text and says she has decided that me and my Mother should wear light blue.  I sent back that it was too late.  We had both purchased dresses.  Mine was navy and Mom's was green and we had got them on sale and they were non-returnable.  She never answered but told everyone that me and my Mom wouldn't even get dresses in the color she wanted.  *Sigh*

By the way, her Mother wore zebra stripes so it's probably good that I didn't end up having to match!

[Shelby]

Pooh - you are right about perceptions.  Your DS and DIL should have been everlastingly grateful to you for the wonderful spread you put on - and acting as chief cook and bottle-washer.  How insensitive to complain that you snubbed them when you were up to your ears in catering chores!!   

At our son's wedding, no one told us to come an hour and a half before the wedding for pictures.  I thought pictures were taken after the wedding, not before (I have since found out differently).  Anyway, no one told us to be there 90 minutes ahead for pictures.  DH and I were on our way 45 minutes ahead, to arrive 35 minutes ahead (plenty of time) when another son called "Mom, where are you?"  I told him what intersection we were passing, and he said pictures were nearly over, and we should have been there 45 minutes earlier.  I said, gosh, nobody told us. 

we arrived, pictures were completely over.  No biggie.  The brides parents (lovely people -- DIL is cold and aloof, but her parents are delightful ) arranged for our side of family to get a few shots after the ceremony.  It all worked out fine.  Actually better.  My parents - frail and in their 80's - got in a few pictures.  Had ALL pics been before the wedding, it would have been too exhausting for my parents.  By squeezing in a few pics of just our family, I got what I wanted without my parents having to be completely exhausted.   I knew nobody excluded us on purpose.  Mother of bride knew we were not snubbing them  Mother of Bride had plenty of other things to worry about.  Perhaps she and bride had counted on groom informing us about picture time   Perhaps they realized he was not as reliable as they might have hoped.  (That will teach them   )

Anyway, by giving each other the benefit of any doubt, it all worked out fine.  I think that's what regular people do.  Sorry AutumnLady and Pooh that you do not have in-laws like that.  I have an aloof DIL - but her parents are great. 

[Pooh]

Dear, dear Pooh -- the bride's maid of honor demanded that your mother - the groom's grandmother - get the bride something to eat?  If I do the math, the bride may have been in her 20's, your mother in her sixties or perhaps older - nearly a half-century age difference?  And the 20-something snippet (I know snippet is name-calling, but I can't resist) demands that the 60 to 70ish grandmother serve the bride?  Why didn't you tell that snippy little MOH to get a plate for the bride?  Good thing I didn't deliver the plate to the bride.  I have a tendency to drop things and it would have been a shame to spill barbeque sauce all over her lovely white gown. 

Don't think the thought didn't cross my mind, but I was trying to give the benefit of the doubt that DIL didn't know what was going on.  This was the first time that we had met the MOH, it was a co-worker of DIL's that she had known for a few months.  My DIL was 21 and my Mom was 70.  I'm guessing MOH was around 20ish.