Do our sons ever have regrets

[Marilyn]

Thanks Anna for the reply.I think my son doe's what ever she says,because yes,he has to live with her.The counsler i went to a couple of years ago said,when you have to give your family up the stakes are to high.

[Marilyn]

 thanks for your reply too,Postscript.Now i understand what you were saying.

[Postscript]

Mominwaiting, I know my son feels horrible that dil & I don't get along.  He feels like he is stuck in the middle & nothing HE does is right.  He loves his wife, he loves his mother, but he just wants peace.  It's easier to give in to dil, he has to live with her, I don't see how it's easier to give into dil if he knows she is hurting his parents.  I would never let my hubby come between me & my parents, & I have never tried to come between hubby & his parents.  I'm sure ours sons are hurt, a lot.  They are confused, cause they don't remember Mom being the way dil says she is, & if dil says it often enough I think our sons start to believe it.

Anna that is an interesting statement.

This is a difficult relationship, torn loyalties.  Maybe the problem here is that the sons are sitting on the fence and taking the path of least resistance when what they need to do, is commit to solving the problem to everyone's satisfaction.  In the early stages of our marriage, my husband got caught up in what started as a minor family disagreement. He was unhappy with the way my father spoke to him.  I thought it would pass but it festered and grew, to the point where my father threatened to punch my husband on the nose! At that point I had to step up.  I talked to them both, telling my father that my husband was not his child and had different ways and my father had to be tolerant.  I told my husband that my father was my father and his ways were different, but he too had to learn tolerance.  They withdrew to their corners, glared a bit, then started talking, things were uncomfortable for a while but they worked through it because I made them, I love/d them both.  They laugh about it now.

It's a minor example but it could have grown into a huge rift if I'd not stepped up.  I don't think it's a matter of choosing sides and I don't think that is what you want, I think you need the problem solved.  Am I on the right track?

[2chickiebaby]

You said you made them work thru it because you love/d them both,  Postscript.  We don't get that kind of treatment as his Mother.  We have to be dismissed.

[Postscript]

With that particular line of thinking Chickie, what then is the logical conclusion?

As I see it, the conclusion can be one of these:

1.  The son doesn't know he can't sit on the fence, he doesn't know he is the source of the solution.
2.  The son has tried and failed because one or other (wife or mother) won't come to the party
3.  The son picks a side because it's easier

There may be more, I can't think of everything perhaps someone else can add?  It appears to me from that wee brainstorm, that the son is the key here.

[cocobars]

My opinion is #3.  I believe he (DS) is afraid to rock the boat with his wife.  Am I wrong?

[cocobars]

Chickie, what do you think here?  That's just my opinion from where I stand.  I have seen real "fear" in my sons eyes when talking about my own DIL.  Maybe my situation is different.

My son ended up leaving his wife.  This may be "just him."  I'm secretly happy this happened.  She was manipulative and controlling.  Her side was the "only" side.  I'm the opposite.  I can back off and lick my wounds if I need to.  I go into my thinking corner and leave him with his own choices.  Just because they are not my choices, doesn't mean I have to take the consequences.  I was happy he left her.  I wound never tell her that, but I was.  It was my secret...

[Postscript]

Coco that begs the question, what in the world has he gotten himself into and what exactly is he afraid of? 

It's painfully clear that my husband is not afraid of me.  When I tell him don't make me beat you, he laughs in my face 

Seriously though, what IS he afraid of? Conflict? Abuse?

[cocobars]

He is afraid of not having another moments peace in his life.  He is afraid of waking up to his wife's absence.  He is afraid of the bank account being drained.  I could make an entire post of what he might be afraid of.  These kinds of DIL's look for weakness in others and they prey on it.  They know their husband's weakness as much as they've studied and mastered their MIL's weakness.  He KNOWS that Postscriopt.  This woman KNOWS what his weaknesses are, and she will use them.  After all, look what she has effectively done to his biological mother.  How much more personal can you prove to be?

[2chickiebaby]

I think it's some of all 3 points for me, Coco.  Thanks for asking...they are thought provoking questions, Postscript.

[Postscript]

He is afraid of not having another moments peace in his life.  He is afraid of waking up to his wife's absence.  He is afraid of the bank account being drained.  I could make an entire post of what he might be afraid of.  These kinds of DIL's look for weakness in others and they prey on it.  They know their husband's weakness as much as they've studied and mastered their MIL's weakness.  He KNOWS that Postscriopt.  This woman KNOWS what his weaknesses are, and she will use them.  After all, look what she has effectively done to his biological mother.  How much more personal can you prove to be?

Then Coco I think you are right to be pleased he has left because it doesn't sound to me that he had a marriage, it sounds more like he was in a prison camp.  Some people are just bad people, some people are just not meant to be together.

But what if the marriage is happy and the son shows no desire to leave it?

As I said yesterday, I know my mother in law would tell the tale of our difficulties with an altogether different slant.  In our case we've been happily (though we've had our ups and downs) married for 20 odd years.  So it's not that he's afraid of me.  We've had our ups and downs, I know he isn't afraid of conflict because he's conflicted a doozy more times than I can count and not just with me. 

So now my question becomes, what responsibility do our sons have in our relationships with their wives/girlfriends/significant others?

Surely, it's more than just sitting there shrugging their shoulders and saying "I'm caught in the middle"  Shouldn't it be better than just settling for the easiest option?

And

If they don't know they have some share in the responsibility for that relationship, is it up to us to enlighten them?

[cocobars]

Thank you Anna.  I never realized to what extent women like this would go to until my son came back home.  You just don't know. Or I didn't, but then I am naive with most people.  I give anyone the benefit of the doubt when I first meet them.  They have to show me I'm wrong.

[cocobars]

Then Coco I think you are right to be pleased he has left because it doesn't sound to me that he had a marriage, it sounds more like he was in a prison camp.  Some people are just bad people, some people are just not meant to be together.

But what if the marriage is happy and the son shows no desire to leave it?

As I said yesterday, I know my mother in law would tell the tale of our difficulties with an altogether different slant.  In our case we've been happily (though we've had our ups and downs) married for 20 odd years.  So it's not that he's afraid of me.  We've had our ups and downs, I know he isn't afraid of conflict because he's conflicted a doozy more times than I can count and not just with me. 

So now my question becomes, what responsibility do our sons have in our relationships with their wives/girlfriends/significant others?

Surely, it's more than just sitting there shrugging their shoulders and saying "I'm caught in the middle"  Shouldn't it be better than just settling for the easiest option?

And

If they don't know they have some share in the responsibility for that relationship, is it up to us to enlighten them?

I believe it is up to me to enlighten my son only if he asks.  But my son is 35.  If he were your sons age I might feel differently.  I may pull him aside and go out for a starbucks, etc., and just talk about where he may be headed.  Even at 17 though, I know that there may have to be other talks attached to that one.  I never covered all things.  Just some.

[Postscript]

Coco, you know what your son is afraid of.  Your daughter in law doesn't sound very nice at all.  But Anna, your daughter in law is a good mother and seemingly good wife?  Rather than jump to conclusions about the children, perhaps it would be better to find out?  It could just as easily be concluded that his rabbit about to be devoured look is fear of potential conflict could it not? 

Perhaps when he gets that look you could ask him gently, I can see that you see potential for a problem by the look on your face, can you explain what the problem you foresee is?  It would open dialogue, that way you could learn more from him about his situation and if nothing else, he knows how his wife thinks, what her reactions are likely to be and you might learn from that?

Coco, sorry your last post confused me a little, does that mean he and you have talked about his current problems?  Age doesn't negate the need for a sounding board (or is that just a woman thing?) .

[2chickiebaby]

OMG!! Postscript....you do not know the H*** that would ensue if we said one word to either son about anything regarding their wives.

One wife would call me up and bawl me out.  The other one would be so cold and mean I'd die of fear.  So asking them is out.  Tried it.