I guess I have really goofed now

[cocobars]

Hi all,
I hope it's OK for a FIL to post in here. However if anyone knows of a FIL forum, I could do that instead.

Shortly after our first grandson was born, my DIL started refusing to let me hold our grandson. On a few occasions she flatly refused, but mostly, she would stand there watching me like a hawk, then after a couple minutes, grabbing him back. On one occasion, she told me "you won't give him back". This happend at church mostly; the only time we could see him. She had no problem having us keep him for her for a week while she worked.
When I told my son about this, he said I was lying. That really hurt.
He firmly maintained that I was lying until later, he admitted she was doing it, but then defended her actions. Now they hasve moved away and we are lucky to get to see him once a month.
More later........

Heartstrings, I have a question.  Did she just start this when the new baby came, or is her attitude toward you and your wife somehting you have been noticing all along?  The reason I'm asking, is that if it just started with the new baby, then it very well could be hormones (who really knows but that might be a good guess).  However if you've noticed her being distant toward you before that, then it may be something else to consider.

What do you think?

[Heartstrings]

Hi all,
I hope it's OK for a FIL to post in here. However if anyone knows of a FIL forum, I could do that instead.

Shortly after our first grandson was born, my DIL started refusing to let me hold our grandson. On a few occasions she flatly refused, but mostly, she would stand there watching me like a hawk, then after a couple minutes, grabbing him back. On one occasion, she told me "you won't give him back". This happend at church mostly; the only time we could see him. She had no problem having us keep him for her for a week while she worked.
When I told my son about this, he said I was lying. That really hurt.
He firmly maintained that I was lying until later, he admitted she was doing it, but then defended her actions. Now they hasve moved away and we are lucky to get to see him once a month.
More later........

Heartstrings, I have a question.  Did she just start this when the new baby came, or is her attitude toward you and your wife somehting you have been noticing all along?  The reason I'm asking, is that if it just started with the new baby, then it very well could be hormones (who really knows but that might be a good guess).  However if you've noticed her being distant toward you before that, then it may be something else to consider.

What do you think?

The only thing we have ever butted heads over is that I tried to regulate their behavior when they were dating. She didn't like my rules on 'no physical contact'. She didn't like it at all and was condescending and sarcastic toward me . I caught her laying over on him, kissing, I confronted them and she got boiling mad. I made them have a chaperone at all times because I was deternined that my son would walk the aisle pure.

[isitme?]

The only thing we have ever butted heads over is that I tried to regulate their behavior when they were dating. She didn't like my rules on 'no physical contact'. She didn't like it at all and was condescending and sarcastic toward me . I caught her laying over on him, kissing, I confronted them and she got boiling mad. I made them have a chaperone at all times because I was deternined that my son would walk the aisle pure.

Hi Heartstrings,  I'm glad to see a FIL on here too!  All too often it seems like the men are totally absent in the emotional dramas that are consuming our families and relationships...

As one of the representative DILs on this forum, I thought I might add my two cents based on your above comments.  How old were your son and DIL when this happened?  I think we all come from different backgrounds and have different ideas about what kind of pre-marital relationship is appropriate.  But after a certain age, your son is an adult who is responsible for making his own decisions.  Do you think it's possible that your rules about "physical contact" or your insistence that your son remain "pure" until he got married are what initially angered your DIL?  If you confronted them together about kissing, you may have made her feel humiliated and like a child.  I have relatively conservative ideas about public displays of affection but I don't think I am quite as conservative as you seem to be - which is fine.  What's in the past is in that past, but maybe it would have been more appropriate for you to speak to your son in private if it was something that bothered you?  As I said, I don't know what age your son and DIL were when you confronted them.  But I can imagine that their reaction if they were in their 20's would be very different then if they had been in their (early?) teens...

I can see how this kind of thing snowballs though.... the DIL (or in my case MIL) gets offended about something that happens early on and then for whatever reason... insecurity, rejection issues, miscommunication - all further comments are treated like insults/attacks and they start finding fault with EVERYTHING and become hypersensitive to all future interactions.

These were just some thoughts based on what I've read..  I'm not sure you will agree with any of them, but that's a DIL's perspective for what it's worth...

[cremebrulee]

Hi all,
I hope it's OK for a FIL to post in here. However if anyone knows of a FIL forum, I could do that instead.

Shortly after our first grandson was born, my DIL started refusing to let me hold our grandson. On a few occasions she flatly refused, but mostly, she would stand there watching me like a hawk, then after a couple minutes, grabbing him back. On one occasion, she told me "you won't give him back". This happend at church mostly; the only time we could see him. She had no problem having us keep him for her for a week while she worked.
When I told my son about this, he said I was lying. That really hurt.
He firmly maintained that I was lying until later, he admitted she was doing it, but then defended her actions. Now they hasve moved away and we are lucky to get to see him once a month.
More later........

Hi There and a heart felt welcome, it will be wonderful to have you join us, and get a man's perspective, thank you so much for joining in....

I'm so sorry this is happening with your DIL and I'm wondering, if perhaps she was sexually abused as a child...

I've seen my DIL act weird like that....really weird...and I can't help but ponder....

I'm also surprised that your son won't believe you....but if she is acting like this now, much more will surface....

I would definately sit down and talk to her, ask her why she's so afraid, that you love that child, her and your son and there is nothing you would ever do to hurt anyone of them....

[Heartstrings]

Hi all,
I hope it's OK for a FIL to post in here. However if anyone knows of a FIL forum, I could do that instead.

Shortly after our first grandson was born, my DIL started refusing to let me hold our grandson. On a few occasions she flatly refused, but mostly, she would stand there watching me like a hawk, then after a couple minutes, grabbing him back. On one occasion, she told me "you won't give him back". This happend at church mostly; the only time we could see him. She had no problem having us keep him for her for a week while she worked.
When I told my son about this, he said I was lying. That really hurt.
He firmly maintained that I was lying until later, he admitted she was doing it, but then defended her actions. Now they hasve moved away and we are lucky to get to see him once a month.
More later........

Hi There and a heart felt welcome, it will be wonderful to have you join us, and get a man's perspective, thank you so much for joining in....

I'm so sorry this is happening with your DIL and I'm wondering, if perhaps she was sexually abused as a child...

I've seen my DIL act weird like that....really weird...and I can't help but ponder....

I'm also surprised that your son won't believe you....but if she is acting like this now, much more will surface....

I would definately sit down and talk to her, ask her why she's so afraid, that you love that child, her and your son and there is nothing you would ever do to hurt anyone of them....

Thanks
Yes, She said she was sexually abused by her own father. And I've also wondered  if this could be a big part of the problem.

Isitme,
From the very beginning, I talked to them both and set some rules. The very first time I saw them breaking the rules, I confronted my son...not her...and told HIM not to let her do it.. The second time I confronted her. When I set the rules my son was 17 and the young lady was 18.

[isitme?]

thanks for clarifying heartstrings.  I agree that abuse in the past could be part of what shapes your DILs behavior and I'm sorry for her.

what you've said sounds reasonable to me but not everyone might see it the same way.  Your DIL may have been resentful of your comments on their physical relationship or just hurt.  She may also have had feelings of shame that you triggered... esp. if she felt you were making her out to be someone with loose morals.  I'm not saying that's what you were trying to do - but she may have perceived it that way.  Especially if she has suffered sexual abuse in the past - victims can often feel a sense of guilt or shame that they direct at themselves. 

In a lot of cases it seems like people who act this way don't really like themselves very much but they can only take it out on others...  it's very sad and I hope you and your son and DIL are able to overcome your problems and have a better relationship.

[cest moi]

Yes, She said she was sexually abused by her own father. And I've also wondered  if this could be a big part of the problem.

Oh it is definitely a big part of the problem. It sounds as though she hasn't gotten the counseling that she needs to overcome this obstacle. People that have been sexually abused (especially by such a trusted figure as parent) Have A LOT of self destructive behaviors and will lash out at other people that they care about. I think you're probably getting the brunt end because of the roll you fill and she's projecting her father issues onto you.  I might recommend that you even find a counselor who specializes in treating victims of sexual abuse so that you can talk with them and find the best way to deal with whats going with your dil and how to react and what to say that might help her. Good luck and I hope that she can get the counseling that she needs in order to make and maintain healthy relationships.

[SunnyDays09]

Isitme,
From the very beginning, I talked to them both and set some rules. The very first time I saw them breaking the rules, I confronted my son...not her...and told HIM not to let her do it.. The second time I confronted her. When I set the rules my son was 17 and the young lady was 18.

Welcome Heartstrings!

   There's the rub:  set.some.rules.  You, my dear sir, are now the equivalent of the "mother-inlaw" since you set boundaries long ago that didn't set well for her, imo (in my opinion).
   Had this been your wife, your dil would be giving the grief to her!  It is all about control and these women are desperately trying to control everyone in their lives.  If it means showing mom/dad the door to get her way - that's what is going to be done.
  I believe her husband just doesn't want to put up with it.  He caves to her demands for the mere moments of peace. 
  I think if there were any problems with being abused she would also have them with her husband.  She is rebelling against you dear FIL.  For you set her straight on what was allowed and what was not.  There is a theme running here.  These types do not want to be told by anyone what is allowed.  For that means to relinquish control to some degree and they will never do that. 
  Just how I sees it.   
   

[2chickiebaby]

I totally agree, Happy.  Sadly, Heartstrings is paying her price for setting rules.  He is in fact, the MIL in the scenario.  The more I think about it, it madder I get at myself for letting these brats hurt me like they been allowed to do!

Heartstrings, she is going to likely keep this up till you either get sick from worry and trying or die from it.  Her ability to do that knows no bounds.  It is, of course, affecting your wife.  They don't care whose life they ruin.

I can empathize that she was abused as a child.  Believe me, I know.....I was NEVER allowed the pleasure of hurting someone else because of my pain, though.  Neither is she.

There are so many rules that these brats set up for us that we know nothing about that of course we're going to break them.  My Lord!  How much can we take?  I'm sick of it. 

Fair warning.....if you say anything to her, watch out!!  Your son will turn on you in a heartbeat.  "He's mean to me"....(thumb in her mouth)

You're going to need to say nothing and distance yourself from this woman before she wrecks you.  It will hurt but not as much as the damage she has coming for you. 

If your wife cries or anything like that....this is what they call, "manipulation", "neediness", "trying to control their lives", "narcissistic".....on and on.

Don't let yourself cry or your wife cry in front of her.  You will have hell to pay.

[Heartstrings]

thanks for clarifying heartstrings.  I agree that abuse in the past could be part of what shapes your DILs behavior and I'm sorry for her.

what you've said sounds reasonable to me but not everyone might see it the same way.  Your DIL may have been resentful of your comments on their physical relationship or just hurt.  She may also have had feelings of shame that you triggered... esp. if she felt you were making her out to be someone with loose morals.  I'm not saying that's what you were trying to do - but she may have perceived it that way.  Especially if she has suffered sexual abuse in the past - victims can often feel a sense of guilt or shame that they direct at themselves. 

In a lot of cases it seems like people who act this way don't really like themselves very much but they can only take it out on others...  it's very sad and I hope you and your son and DIL are able to overcome your problems and have a better relationship.

Yes, I've thought about that too.
No, that was not my intention at all. I had already given my approval of this young lady; I had forbid my son to court another girl who DID have loose morals.(this one ended up pregnant out of wedlock) Thankfully, he complied without rebelling. My intention was to keep their burning hormones from overtaking their upbringing and better judgement. I explained all of that to both of them in detail. But when you're young...

[2chickiebaby]

Anna,
I don't know when I've been so broken hearted and mad at myself for giving up my life for these people who use me and then just throw me away.

You never know what trap has been set for you.  How could we?  There are too many of them.  You go along just fine, just being yourself and boom! This person walks in and makes you so insecure with their rules and boundaries that you're set to fail.  I think I have gotten  myself two of the worst ones. 

[cocobars]

Heartstrings,

I have to tell you that I am really impressed that you would come into a forum like this seeking resolution.  This one thing shows what kind of a father you are to your children; "loving and concerned!"  Enough so, to seek out whatever avenue it takes to understand. I've been gone for awhile, and haven't read what the previous posts have talked about, but I thought about it and wanted to throw that in here first.  You have chosen a befitting name to use!

Just wanted to throw that in...  I'm back now and wil catch up with the rest!

I'm so happy we write everything in here!  I'd be lost without it!

[luise.volta]

It seems to me that setting teenage rules and boundaries is often a pretty thankless task. I wonder, too, how many times it's useless. What I thought my sons were doing (obeying my rules) and what they were actually up to didn't match well, if what they told me after they were grown up is any measure. Society changes, cultures differ. It's a tough scene for most of us.

When I was young, (in the 40s), were were still in Girl Scouts when we were 16... and for many, prom night was the first time dating. Anyone in makeup in Junior High would be sent home etc.. Now look...I know, I sure sound my age, don't I?

[cocobars]

I agree Luise, it is a pretty thankless job.  But even though your sons didnt always tell you the truth, the did come back and admit it.  Didn't they also tell you what a wonderful mother you were?  I would bet they thought it, if they didn't say the words out loud.

[luise.volta]

Yes, there was a kind of hindsight-appreciation and then along came my son's sons and he said, "I never knew...but I do, now. There are nights when I cry myself to sleep, Mom." And now my son's son's kids are keeping him up nights and he tells me about the lump he has in his throat and the hope in his heart. I have GREAT grand kids in college, you know!

And when I ping them, I have to use my long-range magic wand because they live in Paris!(My pink dress is a wonderful addition, by the way!)