Am I Being Totally Mean?

[orphanedmominmn]

Scoop, no. The money he is supposed to be repaying me has nothing to do with cars. I loaned him money for his bankruptcy, to buy a refrigerator, to take their cat to the vet, etc. They needed money, they came to me. And, yes, the Bank of Mom is now closed. But, I didn't intend to charge him anything for the older car.

As for the title, I've been told of all the ways he could really harm me if I don't get that into his name. He could leave it in a handicapped parking spot, let it get ticketed and towed and I would be responsible since I'm the owner. I honestly don't think he'd do that, but then I honestly never thought he'd kick me out of his house, either. So, yes, I need to get the title transferred ASAP. I told him I would do that when he had paid back the other loans, but I'm beginning to see that I probably should do it sooner.

My dad, who absolutely loves everyone and would give anyone the shirt of his back, told me to take the car back and call the loan a wash. He said I can sell that car for more than my son owes me. He said I do not owe my son a car and I am not responsible for the financial position he is in -- except that I have been enabling him. He told me I needed to let my son grow up now, pay for his actions, and make my own life. He said I should get the money he owes me AND money for my car, but he knows my son won't pay the loan. He said they're treating me like crap and he doesn't think they should be rewarded for that. I agree. But I also do not want to see my granddaughters hurt. I am giving him a car for them. Without a car, he can't get to work. If he can't work, what happens to my granddaughters? I will consider this my final "gift" to him. Adding in the loan that he probably won't pay, that kid is getting one huge final gift.

[Doe]

Your dad sounds like a smart guy.

I think your plan of action is sound with this caveat:  if your son does something to mess up the car (wreck it, damage it, blow out a tire, etc) don't get sucked into his transportation needs.  I've noticed that some chaotic people tend to wreck their belongings sometimes.   He can bike to work or ride the bus or get a ride with a co-worker.    OK?

[orphanedmominmn]

With DS and Ex-DIL's financial background, everyone around me knows that they'll be around begging for money soon. And they're going to use allowing me to see my GDs to get it. No one thinks I will be strong enough to say no. Cuz I miss my GDs and probably would be willing to "pay" to see them.

I know it is so easy to say I will be strong. I am praying that I will be once this happens. My dad is right -- I am enabling him. I'm not helping him at all by giving him money. And it certainly is not helping our relationship. But I so miss my GDs.

[Orly]

Your dad gave you perfect advice.  Your son is a user/abuser, past time for him to face reality.  Get your car back and let him figure out what the heck to do.  Have your dad drive you over to your son's place and remove the car. 

[sesamejane]

Hmmm...I didn't read it that way, Scoop.  I don't think he is paying on any car and banished the gifter! 

[orphanedmominmn]

Tomorrow is the day I decided to take the car back and I am just sick. I wanted to do it on a Friday so he has the whole weekend to figure out transportation for work on Monday.

I am having surgery on Monday. He knows I am having surgery on Monday. Not once has he asked anything about it or shown any concern. Our e-mails are about money and the car. He demands to know when he is going to get the title. He dictates how (or if) he is going to pay me back money he agrees he owes me.

In essence, he treats me like crap. By giving him that car, I feel like I'm rewarding that behavior. But, still, I'm scared. Part of me wants to think somehow we can work this out someday but I feel like taking the car will be the last straw -- he'll be done with me forever. But, then, he says he already is.

And I am so tired of them using my granddaughters as punishment. I haven't seen them in about a month and I miss them terribly but I'm surviving (depressed, yes, but surviving). It has been this way since they were born -- I do what they say, when they say, how they say or I don't see my granddaughters. Like I said, I miss my granddaughters but I do not want to be treated like this anymore. And, that obviously means I don't see my granddaughters anymore.

[Doe]

Hey - don't go beating yourself up - you're modeling your son's behavior if you do.

Your son is a mean person.
You've been propitiating him for a long time.  (Trying to buy his approval)
Something you do drives him nuts.

He sounds like someone who is always angry and I've observed that weak people drive angry people nuts.  So it stands to reason that you might be more able to deal with him if you become a stronger person.

But whether you deal with him in the future or see your grandkids in the future,  I think you should take drastic measures to make yourself a stronger person - by whatever method it takes.  We can give you suggestions and your dad can tell you what to do but you have to reach the point within where you decide that enough is truly enough. 

You probably see your son as a huge powerful force, but he looks pathetic and useless from this vantage point.  I think you're in the stronger position but you just don't realize it.

[Pooh]

Yep, just the fact that he is demanding the title....

Car go bye bye

[lancaster lady]

Take the grandkids out of the equation , and then decide what to do .
He knows that's why you do what you do , because of them .
Surprise him and do the opposite , call his bluff .
Holding them as ransom just shows what he really is ...not printable on this forum !

[Ruth]

Hey - don't go beating yourself up - you're modeling your son's behavior if you do.

Your son is a mean person.
You've been propitiating him for a long time.  (Trying to buy his approval)
Something you do drives him nuts.

He sounds like someone who is always angry and I've observed that weak people drive angry people nuts.  So it stands to reason that you might be more able to deal with him if you become a stronger person.

But whether you deal with him in the future or see your grandkids in the future,  I think you should take drastic measures to make yourself a stronger person - by whatever method it takes.  We can give you suggestions and your dad can tell you what to do but you have to reach the point within where you decide that enough is truly enough. 

You probably see your son as a huge powerful force, but he looks pathetic and useless from this vantage point.  I think you're in the stronger position but you just don't realize it.

OK, I was going to pull out the part about 'weak people making angry people angrier', (Doe I wish I'd said that, its so good) but the whole post was too good to edit out anything.  I love what Doe said about 'by whatever method it takes'.  Now we have to think this over carefully....you are too weak and sick right now to try and fight world war III.  this isn't about him right now (he's brain dead right now until he jerks himself up and starts acting like a man), but its about YOU beloved, and what helps you feel the best and you know, anything you decide to do, or not do can be done from a position of strength.  As long as you know the truth, he doesn't have any power to manipulate or hurt you any more.  So you just do, in my opinion, whatever you want about the car.  Be strong, and convince yourself that you are far more important to your ds than he is to you, you have a role to play in your g/c lives and he can't afford to kill the goose that laid the golden egg.  As I said before, I still think if I could walk away from an inexpensive car and it didn't really impact my life, I'd tell him it was his for the sake of my grandchildren, not for him.  But let him see you inured to his games.