Am I Being Totally Mean?

[orphanedmominmn]

You know, I honestly don't know if I touched on the financial aspects of my relationship with my DS, Ex-DIL or not. However, I loaned them a lot of money. I also bought a car for my son (I was to make the payments, he was to pay me back). I did that because with his credit history, there was no way he was going to get a loan.

After DS kicked me out, I honestly tried to work out a deal so he could keep the car and keep paying me. Then I realized that was just stupid. He didn't pay me much when we had a relationship, why would I even think he would when there isn't any? I also was afraid if I ever needed to get a car loan for myself, I wouldn't be able to because I would have the loan on his. I asked him to get a loan in his own name for the car. He said there was no way he could do that -- no one would give him a loan (he had just recently filed bankruptcy). So, I took the car.

I left him my car, which is fully paid for, but older and not as nice as "his." My plan was to just give it to him once he paid off the rest of the money he owed me. Now he is fighting with me about the money he owes me, saying it isn't as much as I say (even though we had originally agreed to the amount, he's apparently changed his mind). He also says he will pay me when he has the money, no specific dates as to payback. He says he has $200 right now and will pay me next time he sees me. Which is going to be when? He cut me out of his life.

I want to go take my car back (we haven't transferred the title yet -- it's still mine). I'm tired. I'm angry. And I am sick to death of being treated like this. I don't owe him a car. I didn't get him into this horrible financial situation he is in. If I take back the car, it will mostly be out of anger. He is right, with his financial background, getting a car loan is going to be very difficult. Without a car, how is he going to get to work? How is he going to take my granddaughters around?  But, still, like I said -- I didn't get him in this position. He did that. I should not have to be worried about cleaning it up.

I've think I've passed the depressed stage and am moving into angry. But I don't want to do anything out of anger. Still, he cannot continue to treat me like this.

[Ruth]

You know, OM, if I were you and were able to do so, I believe I'd forgive the debt.  You're beating your head against a stone.  You can argue this till the cows come home and it will never go well.  You won't win this one, and lots of parents die on that hill.  You have learned a costly lesson but at least you could move on with a clean slate.  I'd repo the car which is leined in your name of course, and only only! leave him the older spare car when he shows you proof of insurance and the title is signed off in his name, if he doesn't want the older car, so be it.  Then walk away, tell him love him but the bank is closed from here on out.  I would be sure my g/c (were there grandchildren, I'm sorry I don't remember for sure) had plenty to eat and medical needs met, but I would hand over no cash whatsoever to that family.  If ther He will use you up.  I am sorry. 

[sesamejane]

Oh so glad you took the car Orphaned!!!  wow, great move.  Maybe you did it in anger, but with them feeling so bitter and cutting you off, I don't see that you had any choice.  If your name is on it, you are responsible for it.  Anything could happen, and you might be stuck with more than you bargained for  I also think you are very very generous to *give*  him your car.  I would tell him it is a loaner until he purchases his own. Put a time-limit on it if you like. 

I really think you did the right thing, and he is very very lucky you have a generous heart and did not leave him without transportation!!

[Pooh]

Ruth, I think that's the problem.  The newer car is the one that he has not been paying her for so she took that one and left him her older car that was paid for?  Also, it wasn't a gift but an arrangement they had for him to pay for it because he couldn't get a loan?

If I understand that right, then you now have a car payment again...but it sounded like you were having to pay it anyway.  Let's see, he kicked you out of the house you were living in, at their request, to help them financially and now you have a car payment to boot.  I would say I would chalk it up to lesson learned and have to finish paying for the car.  Maybe tell DS that he has 2 weeks to figure out his transportation situation, then you are coming after your car.  Maybe sell your car to help pay off the new one?

Sorry, I don't feel bad for him as they have created this mess and then were ungrateful when you were helping, at their request.  You have a right to be angry, but yet acting out while you are angry is futile.  Calm yourself down for a few days and decide what arrangement suits you best.  YOU...not him.

[Ruth]

Gee, I'm sorry, I thought she took back (repo-ed) the newer unpaid for car and left him her old clunker was was paid for .  i though she could maybe sell the car with a lien on it and at least get rid of the debt, sorry OM!

[Pooh]

Oh wait!  I'm losing my mind Ruth...that is what you said, I read it wrong!  Sorry!

[Doe]

ok.......

She should take back all the cars that are in her name.    Let him come to her to ASK her please for transportation.  Then IF she feels like it, she goes to a used car lot and buys him a beater, cash, in his name and let him figure out the insurance, etc.

How's that?

[orphanedmominmn]

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to be so confusing!!  Yes, I took back the newer car -- the one that money is owed on. I gave him the one I had been driving -- no money was owed on that car.

I do have a car payment now but yes, he didn't pay more often than he did so I'm hoping I don't really notice it in the budget.

I agree that I need to calm down for a few days before I do anything. I'm trying very hard to not do anything I will regret later -- even if that means overthinking it. But I am angry right now and I don't want to act out of anger. (That's kind of how we got here!!!)

Thanks, ladies. Once again, you've been so helpful!!

[Pooh]

Nah...you weren't confusing...I think I botched it! 

Just remember, you don't owe him anything.  If anyone should be feeling grateful, it is him.  If you want to be nice, because of the GC, then I think giving him a time-period to come up with all the money to pay for the car, or to make his own arrangements is the nice way out.

Maybe what will help you make up your mind is asking yourself this:  If I help him with transportation for a couple of more weeks, will he be appreciative?  Or at the end of those two weeks, will he be just as disrespectful and angry with me?

[Doe]

Oooh - I think you should at least take the car back till the title is transferred.    Also, maybe just let go of his debt to you, walk away from it, but also close your wallet when it comes to him.

[lancaster lady]

I think he's one lucky guy to get anything !

[Pen]

I agree, LL.

Since you're not likely to see a dime, and since he has in his possession the older car, call it a draw. Consider it his inheritance or a gift to your GDs so they don't have to be schlepped around on public transportation (although it's done by millions around the world every single day.) And close the Bank of Mom. If you get the urge to hand over money, put it in a college fund for the GC.

[sesamejane]

Sign the title over and cancel your insurance - he will *have* to buy his own or not drive the car.  Hey great first step on the way to adulthood!

[Pooh]

I agree with that!  If you are going to gift the car, definately sign it over and cancel the insurance, letting him know.  That's all you need is him to get in a wreck and you get sued.

[Scoop]

Well, I can see this another way.  He was making (sporadic) payments on a newer car.  You took that car away and left him with an older car, and still expect him to pay for the newer one?

I don't think that's right either.

Here's what I would do:

Option 1 - Figure out how much he's paid, how much the newer car is worth and how much the older car is worth.  If he's paid you more than the old car is worth, then you would sign it over to him, counting any "extra" as the cost of using the newer car.  I don't think you can charge him the entire devaluation of the newer car, but I think you can set a "usage" price, in that he used the newer car, but was only willing to pay for the older car.  If he's paid less than the older car, then you renegotiate the loan with him and tell him to sign it and pay it, or else you'll take the car back. 

Option 2 - Figure out what you can sell the newer car for.  Consider how much he's paid towards it as his percentage of "ownership" of it.  (Say he's paid $1000 and you've paid $3000, then he would be 1/4 owner.)  So offer to sell it and then he'll be responsible for 1/4 of the debt and after that's covered, he can have 1/4 of the profit.  From that, he can buy his own beater car.  And you're driving your old car again.  If you want to keep the new car, then sell your old car, and give him 1/4 of what you would have gotten for the newer car (less 1/4 of the debt).