March 28, 2024, 06:56:27 AM

News:

"Welcome to WiseWomenUnite.com -- When adult children marry and leave home, life can sometimes get more complex instead of simpler.  Being a mother-in-law or daughter-in-law can be tough.  How do we extend love and support to our mothers-in-law, adult children, daughters-in-law, sons-in-law, and grandchildren without interfering?  What do we do when there are communication problems?  How can we ask for help when we need it without being a burden?  And how do our family members feel about these issues?  We invite you to join our free forum, read some posts... and when you're ready...share your challenges and wisdom."


For DIL's who Lurk

Started by cremebrulee, January 12, 2010, 05:08:10 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Sassy

Thanks, Creme.  I "get" saying words of anger.  So maybe it's that her anger just never stops?   She's more a cryer than an angry person, at least how she expresses it, with great sadness.

DH has told her, exactly what you said.   And hence, the impasse.  MIL doesn't stop, or sort of work around it, while still doing it.  She wasn't invited to our wedding because of it!  And he never got a chance to invite her to Christmas, because she wouldn't stop asking what he bought me.  He's told her it hurts him, and he's asked for respect. 

MIL, who was truly a great single mother who raised only-child DH, and I were very friendly, at first.  I would say we were friends, but now looking back I'm not sure.   I've been coming here a long time, and to Luise's other site before this one, so our back-story's on here.  Basically at first, I went along with her lead, suggestions, and all was well.  She's smart, fun, funny, creative, flamboyant, affectionate, spontaneous, and intuitive.  But she pushed for more time with me. She wanted more time with me than my life-long friends did, my family, or even more time than I got to spend with my then BF (now DH).  We included her in almost everything.  But any "sorry can't make it" or any plans made without her, caused her great pain.  Like couple's weekends or even work-related events.

I know it felt like rejection to her.  Or being left out.  For a while, I felt very responsible for her pain.  It was a terrible time for me.  Luise helped!  We also had some counseling with our minister.

About the time MIL told me she wanted every Saturday night to be "Girl's Night Out", and when she booked a "surprise" trip to Las Vegas for the two of us (she and I), was about when I started saying "no".  And then, I imagine feeling rejected?, she reacted even more.  More texts, more calls, more showing up unannounced, more invites.  For my DH, when she started showing up at Open Houses and talking to realtors on our behalf, is when he backed off.  He told her he couldn't pay her bills like he had, that he was saving for the wedding extras, honeymoon, house -  and she did not like that.  She began calling me a gold-digger to him, to her mother (DH's GM) and her sister (DH's Aunt), who'd tell her kids (DH's cousins) and then it got... ugly.  (BTW, we both earn good livings, and DH knew if we wanted to reach our goals, he couldn't fund her Bloomies trips anymore).

Hence, the impasse.  DH still tries to reach out every few weeks, and reiterates what he wants from her is not to say this or that about is wife.  And I'll get hopeful that maybe we can try again, for a meal, a walk, some time togther.  I don't want my DH estranged from his M, because I don't think it's healthy or happy-making for them.  They haven't been able to get past a phone call in months, before he has to hang up to get her to stop.  He's had some individual counseling with our minister, recently.

Would I push more to "be the bridge" as Luise puts it that a DlL can do, if I thought she wouldn't use information or emotions against me later?  I don't know.  Probably I would, if I am honest.  That's the fear.  Now I am at the point where I fear by reaching out or sharing, I'll be hurt more, and she'll use what I say to hurt DH more.

And when I think about the things she's said (I try not to play mind re-runs, its not fun!) I wonder if it's even wise of me to invite someone who would talk so poorly about me to my husband, into our lives.  To her, not sharing our money is selfish, I believe she feels that way.  He shared before he was married, so I am the changed variable.  So I am "Selfish" to her.  Marriage isn't easy, and so many today seem to fail.  Having someone tell my husband I'm selfish is not good for "us."  He may "know" it's not true, but hearing it over and over, as we all know, poisons the mind.  I can imagine why she'd feel it, but I can't imagine why she'd say it!

Does our young marriage need that, more or less, than a man needs a relationship with his mother?  It's something I struggle with.  Ultimately it is up to DH, of course.  He's so, so hurt by her expression of judgment about me, that her own actions are what repel him right now.

I try to play it by ear, imagine myself just going with the flow.  But the thought of a meal with her fills me with hope of love and laughs (probably from the past, at this point the way it was before) and at the same time fills me with a sense of "danger-danger, trouble ahead".

Thank you, Creme, for being honest..... thank you.

cremebrulee

yeah, danger will robinson is right?   ;D  don't know if you'll get that?

Sassy, my heart goes out to you....this is such a shame, an intelligent funloving woman who can't get enough...she is obsessive and smothering...and I couldn't deal with it....and, I think your both wise in keeping a distance....yanno, your husband is probably somewhat embarrassed by her behavior...

such a shame that a woman is so obsessed she cannot see what she is loosing and how many people she is hurting...

this woman should have had counseling long ago....

Once suggestion...you've heard the old saying, "The honeymoon is over".  Do you know what that means?

It means, now that you've been with that person longer, they show they're true selves....and sometimes, it isn't a pretty thing.

So, while you hold onto those good times Sassy, remember, she was only showing her best side back then....the person she is now, is the person she was then...she only controlled it better, but it was only a matter of time....

Sheeesh, I can't imagine being smothered that much....I would run like you know what....LOL

You seem very patient and understanding, and it is such a shame, b/c this woman doesn't have a clue of anyone else's feelings, even when she is restricted, which kinda scares me.....if she is rejected to much, could she become dangerous?  I don't mean to alarm you, but it just doesn't seem like she is hearing your husband's heart....nor does she care...she sounds almost like she lives in her own world where everything is her way.  Is she married?  God, the reason I ask is b/c my first thought is, "oh my, her poor husband!"

I wonder if she would agree to counseling with your husband?  she sounds like a very sad and lonely soul...

I wonder if she did something in her life which caused this, or if something was done to her?  Or maybe a chemical imbalance?  But Sassy, something is really wrong here....

I wonder if your husband should discuss her behavior with her doctor....?

Hugs to you and yours...

Creme

isitme?

January 12, 2010, 01:08:23 PM #17 Last Edit: January 12, 2010, 01:10:46 PM by isitme?
Sassy, I've read a lot of your posts and can sympathize.  It sounds like you have tried really hard to get along with your MIL but if it's not HER way, it's the highway.  I think we should consider ourselves really lucky that there are kind, reasonable MILs here to listen to us, give us support and also: to reassure us that we're not the ones causing the problems (or help us identify how we might be contributing to problems).  You've also given me a lot of great feedback when I've posted my own rants so thanks!!!!!

Do you think it's possible for your MIL to get counseling?  This can be a tricky thing because some people are more willing than others to go to counseling.  People have different reasons for refusing counseling - but I think a major issue is that they can never acknowledge that they are part of the problem.  If that is the case, then it seems to me like that is an indication of how willing they REALLY are to work on improving the relationship.  For example, a lot of the MILs here seem like they would welcome the chance to go to counseling with their DILs because THEY want to work on things - they don't see it as "my DIL needs to fix herself" - they realize that communication is a two way street and they are willing to put in the work.   On the other hand, my FMIL would NEVER go to counseling - but BF and I have been going and it's making a world of difference for the two of us.  I feel very strongly that my FMIL has a lot of deep issues that are causing some kind of personality disorder and she will never change.  It's very sad because it is driving her own son away from her.  It's something I"m learning to step away from but sometimes I still can't help but be angry that this woman's family would rather ignore her psychological problems and become increasingly distant from one another instead of actually trying to work on things.  It's hard to work on things but if you're interested in building or improving a relationship, you should be willing to do it.  That's not the case with my FMIL - she's not willing to acknowledge her faults or do anything that feels "difficult" so at the end of the day, she's going to be the one who ends up alone.

It sounds like something similar is happening with your MIL.  The cycle you described also reminds me of my sister - when she clings to me, I pull away but then she just clings more.  I think it's a different dynamic though with your MIL. You mentioned you tried counseling with your minister - how was that?  Did your MIL seem involved with it?

It's hard when someone refuses to participate in having a healthy, respectful relationship with you, but then turns around and blames YOU for the problem.  I'm really glad we have this site to help us deal with things.  I don't know how many DIL's "lurk" on here without ever posting anything - but I certainly hope it is for positive and constructive reasons - because I think that's what the ladies here are all about. 


2chickiebaby

Sassy, if I could just interject a couple of things....I don't know your MIL, of course but from your description, she sounds like a boat without a rudder.  It's sad.

Aside from that, though....when you're older (not old but older than you are), you don't realize you are older.  You feel like you are the same age as your DIL inside. (I hope you know what I mean)  It's hard to understand why you can't go with the "girls" to a night out!! You're just as fun as they are.

I have thought those things myself.  Not that I have initiated them or ever done anything about those thoughts.  My point is that you don't age in your mind.  You have to act like you do but you really don't.  It is just the most horrible thing thinking you're a teeny bopper and you aren't!! 8) 

When you said she was funny, creative..all those things, that thought popped into my mind. Her funny and creative mind is what is getting her into trouble, I fear.

The other thing is invading in your personal time and personal finances....she is way out of bounds for that but somehow doesn't understand that either.  She seems to lack understanding and can only react kind of like a child.

Seems like she's done a fabulous job at raising your husband, though.  I would give her pluses for that and I'm sure you do. I think you are torn between really liking her and not liking some of her behaviors. 

I'd give her pluses for being fun and funny...it would be horrible if she was not....believe me.  She does seem like she's a bit childish. Maybe if you could view her like that, childish, and know that she doesn't know any better, that might help?

Sassy

Thank you, everyone.

I've heard "Danger Will Robinson" and I know it's from an old TV show about the future with computers or space people?  LOL. I think I was referring that without knowing exactly what I was referring to.

DH and I have had premarital counseling as a couple, and more recently, he's had it on his own.   Mainly, it's been helpful in maintaining boundaries, protecting ourselves from hurt.  He has never gone with MIL.  But that's a good idea.  And when the time is right, I'll bring it up to him.  I don't know why they / we haven't tried to do that before.  I don't even know if either / both of them would be open to it (maybe that's why they haven't). 

MIL has that flair for the dramatic.  It is part of her appeal, to be sure.  I've described her as a "show-biz" personality.  She does do community theatre.   People always seem like her when they first meet her, she's charming.  She is also quite stunning to look at, incidentally.  But she was the "opposite" of most of the more serious and low-key people in my life growing up, in school, and even now (engineers, teachers, lawyers, business types).  So I think that part of my initial hesitancy in setting boundaries with her, was I didn't know how to set limits to someone I was a bit enchanted by, who didn't listen or "read cues". Nor could I feel confident in predicting her reactions.

And so I thought, well, is crying on my doorstep "normal" for the flamboyant-types?  Yes, it's apparent she has got some trouble regulating her emotions, and could use help with that.  From what I gathered, it's always just been "that's her" and "that's how she is" type from DH's family (Aunt and cousins, mainly).  DH tended to withdraw from her, as things got more intense in the last year. 

Emotionally, I miss her.   I enjoyed her company!  She made me laugh, she's huggy, she's different.  It wasn't the idea of Girl's Nights Out I said no to; it was that she wanted GNO to be a Saturday Night Commitment from me.  When we worked full time and we wanted to spend Saturday Nights as a couple, she responded as if I had rejected her.  Which I do think was how she felt.

She's been single since DH's father died when DH was young.  DH sort of filled in the role for her, with companionship, handy-man type work, reliability, financially.   That's probably a big reason he is such a great DH now. 

I've had times I thought to be scared of her.  We hired off duty policemen to work security for our wedding.  (And used it.) Mainly, I worry more the opposite way, that she would harm herself.  The thought of it makes me feel very sad.  And guilty.  And with the money problems, I also worry that she's shopping more than ever and not meeting the basic bills.  We know people can do dumb things when they get in debt.  DH feels like him paying her shopping bills is not the answer.  Logically, of course, I know he's right.

It's like it's good for a while, we function, we live life.  Then something, internal or external, causes a sieze of doubt in me, or DH.  And the unresolved nature of this is "the problem that will not go away".  (Not that she's "the problem", but the ongoing challenges to the relationship certainly are.) 

Thanks for listening and for your support, and very practical advice.  It always helps me to come here and sort through the clouds in my head.  I'll approach DH with the idea of mother-son therapy, when the time is right.  Thank you.

2chickiebaby

Sassy, you sound like you really care for her and I know you miss her but you're conflicted about her intruding on your life and I really can't blame you. She's too good to throw out and you can't live with her either.  Such a delima!

Getting older is awful.  You really don't understand what is happening until you pass by a mirror and look into it and wonder who that person is? It's so discouraging!   

DO NOT GET A MAGNIFYING MIRROR....Satan created it.  He did and I think his little demons get into it and make you think it's you.  It's not!  It's a trick!

I can envision what your MIL is like and I'll bet she's a ball to be with....the problem is that she's not a ball to be in a family with.  She's too intrusive.  The woman is a little on the childish side and probably does belong in the movies.  She sounds very dramatic.  It's a problem for us (Yes, I'm dramatic and I can't help it but I am fun and very sweet)  I don't think I'm intrusive, though and I am totally harmless.

I have an Aunt who is just like your MIL.   Her DIL is constantly on the outs with her and vise verse. They have a ball from the outside but it's not as funny when you're in the middle of it. Her son plays defense and has all their married life.   She is a P.I.L.L. 

I'd rather be with her than almost anyone but I'm sure it would be H.E.Double Toothpicks if you were married into it.  Although, they have the greatest and most enviable family on earth.  Her DIL loves her more than she does anyone in her own family.  It's constant drama over there.  I envy them!!

She's really all the family I have left so I'm prejudiced. I wish we had that kind of family.  My DILs don't understand the dramatic parts of me and the funny parts, although I'd never intrude on their lives.  One of my DILs does but she uses people and that's a turn off to me.

It will be hard for you all your married life because she isn't likely to change.  She is a child, with childish behaviors and probably doesn't know what she's doing.  Sadly, she most likely doesn't.  I hope you can find peace with her and find some good parts of her because she does have them.  :)  So do you.


cremebrulee

Some very good observations made here by all you women and many thanks Sassy for describing your MIL....which now, I am able to view her in a different light...

Yanno, to me, MIL sounds, very artsy...and artsy people are very passionate & dramatic, they see the world much differently from others...passionately driven & emotionally charged; are very sensitive people who love to party.

Artists are unconventional in their views....so, while her behavior of intrusion and expectation with you, is now a little more clear, she is over stepping boundaries but not doing it to be controlling. 

She sounds like she's overflowing at times with creativity and excitement....CREATIVITY leads to the the progress of the soul. If we didn't see, hear, and & feel the world in novel ways, we would become stale, bored and decay, spiritually & mentally, which is our purpose for growth.

It also leads to new inventions and newness in other areas because progress is made by analogy.  So, by understanding a person's character better, one can understand, that she is not being intrusive by a willful desire to be controlling, more so, it seems as if this is basically a soul who truely enjoys people and thinks way outside of the box.  ;0)

Perhaps when you rejected her, it threw her off kilter so to speak?  Artists, to me, are better developed emotionally...they seem to me, to have more self confidence, self-respect and sensitivity, not to mention somewhat perceptive...

So what I'm saying is, it makes it easier to understand her and the whys of her....and when we can do that, we can all get along so much better...

I really believe Sassy, that eventually you'll be able to articulate your feelings to her, and she will understand...and counseling may help as well...

It's lovely of you to be able to understand her and care for her as you do...and I want to thank you for that...she's very fortunate to have a DIL like you. 

Creme

cocobars

Quote from: Sassy on January 12, 2010, 10:29:09 AM
Creme, Even though I am not a lurking DIL, but a participating one, I think that your proposal is beautiful.  Relationships take 2.  And no one is perfect.  I'm sure not perfect!  Not a perfect wife, not a perfect daughter, not a perfect DIL.

Perhaps the "see-saw" can also be seen as an ebb-and-flow.   Like a MIL, a DIL can't be perfect all the time.  She can give what she can give when she can give it.  And other times, there's probably "outside" forces (marriage, stress, work, children, health, her own family, moods) that allow her to give less to the relationship. 

I know right now, the one thing I am having trouble rectifying /understanding / forgiving / going with the flow of with my own MIL is that she does speak poorly about me, to my DH.  I know she can't help what she feels, but, on the other hand, saying the words to him is something she can control.  He tells me what she says about me.

For me, for anyone to say negative things about me to my husband, even though she's his mother (or perhaps because she's his mother??) seems like the actions of someone who's trying to drive a wedge into our marriage.  I don't see anything good that can come out of it.  And it's hard for me to understand why'd she denigrate me to my husband, unless she really wanted to change the way he views me to the negative.  He doesn't listen to her talk like that, anymore.  And he's asked her to stop.  But... (I'm crying as I type this) .. the idea that she would want my husband to see me as selfish, or greedy, or cold, breaks my heart. 

I think it's more fear, than anything.  Fear that letting her in, will show more things to say about me to him.

I guess I hope someone can help me rectify that.  I think this relates to your topic?  If you'd prefer me to start another thread about this, I will.

Unfortunately, she may continue this behavior.  I don't think she realizes that if she has a problem, it may be better for her to talk to you both (as a unit).  I believe that would help you to see that she is  not trying to come in-between your relationship with your husband (her son).  Do you think there is a constructive and/or tactful way of talking to her about your feelings?

cocobars

Quote from: 2chickiebaby on January 12, 2010, 01:25:54 PM
Sassy, if I could just interject a couple of things....I don't know your MIL, of course but from your description, she sounds like a boat without a rudder.  It's sad.

Aside from that, though....when you're older (not old but older than you are), you don't realize you are older.  You feel like you are the same age as your DIL inside. (I hope you know what I mean)  It's hard to understand why you can't go with the "girls" to a night out!! You're just as fun as they are.

I have thought those things myself.  Not that I have initiated them or ever done anything about those thoughts.  My point is that you don't age in your mind.  You have to act like you do but you really don't.  It is just the most horrible thing thinking you're a teeny bopper and you aren't!! 8) 

When you said she was funny, creative..all those things, that thought popped into my mind. Her funny and creative mind is what is getting her into trouble, I fear.

The other thing is invading in your personal time and personal finances....she is way out of bounds for that but somehow doesn't understand that either.  She seems to lack understanding and can only react kind of like a child.

Seems like she's done a fabulous job at raising your husband, though.  I would give her pluses for that and I'm sure you do. I think you are torn between really liking her and not liking some of her behaviors. 

I'd give her pluses for being fun and funny...it would be horrible if she was not....believe me.  She does seem like she's a bit childish. Maybe if you could view her like that, childish, and know that she doesn't know any better, that might help?

Thank you for saying that chickie.  It is so true!  I don't think any of us "age" in our minds.  You wake up one day and realize you are being treated differently!

I didn't realize I was older until I was walking out of a mall one day, and a car load of young guys drove bay whistling and making fools of themselves (well, at my age that's always a complement).  What got me was as they were rounding a corner, one of them yelled "I could go for a 40 year old!"  I'm 55.  That was nice to hear that they thought I was younger, but that's also when I realized I wasn't that sweet-young girl anymore.  LOL!

There have been other wake-up calls, but chickie is sooooooooooo right!  We don't realize our age.  Our bodies age, but not our minds.

cremebrulee

Quote from: cocobars on January 13, 2010, 05:27:28 AM
Quote from: 2chickiebaby on January 12, 2010, 01:25:54 PM
Sassy, if I could just interject a couple of things....I don't know your MIL, of course but from your description, she sounds like a boat without a rudder.  It's sad.

Aside from that, though....when you're older (not old but older than you are), you don't realize you are older.  You feel like you are the same age as your DIL inside. (I hope you know what I mean)  It's hard to understand why you can't go with the "girls" to a night out!! You're just as fun as they are.

I have thought those things myself.  Not that I have initiated them or ever done anything about those thoughts.  My point is that you don't age in your mind.  You have to act like you do but you really don't.  It is just the most horrible thing thinking you're a teeny bopper and you aren't!! 8) 

When you said she was funny, creative..all those things, that thought popped into my mind. Her funny and creative mind is what is getting her into trouble, I fear.

The other thing is invading in your personal time and personal finances....she is way out of bounds for that but somehow doesn't understand that either.  She seems to lack understanding and can only react kind of like a child.

Seems like she's done a fabulous job at raising your husband, though.  I would give her pluses for that and I'm sure you do. I think you are torn between really liking her and not liking some of her behaviors. 

I'd give her pluses for being fun and funny...it would be horrible if she was not....believe me.  She does seem like she's a bit childish. Maybe if you could view her like that, childish, and know that she doesn't know any better, that might help?

Thank you for saying that chickie.  It is so true!  I don't think any of us "age" in our minds.  You wake up one day and realize you are being treated differently!

I didn't realize I was older until I was walking out of a mall one day, and a car load of young guys drove bay whistling and making fools of themselves (well, at my age that's always a complement).  What got me was as they were rounding a corner, one of them yelled "I could go for a 40 year old!"  I'm 55.  That was nice to hear that they thought I was younger, but that's also when I realized I wasn't that sweet-young girl anymore.  LOL!

There have been other wake-up calls, but chickie is sooooooooooo right!  We don't realize our age.  Our bodies age, but not our minds.

I forgot to remark on this and wanted to...Chickie hit the nail right on the head...yes, that is so true...and we all say that at work...(ehhh hemmm, we older folks do) LOL   

The mind is willing but the body is screaming, noooaaaahhhhhhhh!!!!

But, I still feel, and this is my personal opion, a MIL should never overstep boundaries as far as wanting to hang out with they're DIL's unless, the DIL's invite them to...we have to understand, if we feel the need to hang out with someone, call friends...but  to interfer in DIL's life like that, to me would be an intrusion....

Actually, I think it's really nice that my son's friends want to spend time with me....and I'd probably see this in a different light, if I didn't have the DIL I have...but she would never ever allow me to do that...hang out with her...she hates everything about me....

I so wish I had a DIL like my son's friends....who come over for dinner now and then...write me a lot...and stop by just to check in....it's so easy and I can be myself...I'm not ever afraid of saying something wrong...or walking on egg shells around them....they are a lot of fun...


2chickiebaby

Yes, Creme, it is a shock!!  The first time this happened to me I was stunned when the cart carrier was pushing my basket from the super market.  He said, "well, how are you today, Sweetie?"

Sweetie?  Sweetie?  That's what you call old people!!  What?  What is going on here?  Why was this guy not making a pass for me?  He's my age....he's not bad looking.  Hey, where did the the boys go? 

Oh my gosh!!  Have you been to your high school reunions lately?  I thought I was in the wrong place!  Who in the heck were these old people?  Where were my boyfriends?  The football players?  OMYGOSH!  There they are!! They're bald!

cocobars

Yes they are bald!  LOL!  Some of them look like dirty old men!  It's scary, but I would never tell them that.

cremebrulee

Quote from: 2chickiebaby on January 13, 2010, 05:46:26 AM
Yes, Creme, it is a shock!!  The first time this happened to me I was stunned when the cart carrier was pushing my basket from the super market.  He said, "well, how are you today, Sweetie?"

Sweetie?  Sweetie?  That's what you call old people!!  What?  What is going on here?  Why was this guy not making a pass for me?  He's my age....he's not bad looking.  Hey, where did the the boys go? 

Oh my gosh!!  Have you been to your high school reunions lately?  I thought I was in the wrong place!  Who in the heck were these old people?  Where were my boyfriends?  The football players?  OMYGOSH!  There they are!! They're bald!


ROTFL

cremebrulee

Quote from: cocobars on January 13, 2010, 05:51:58 AM
Yes they are bald!  LOL!  Some of them look like dirty old men!  It's scary, but I would never tell them that.

Yeah....high five on the dirty ol men...LOL

cocobars

Yep!  Isn't that scary?  I'm sure the look on my face said it all, even though I was trying not to react!   LOL!