Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her

[pam1]

Doe, yes....I don't like anyone dropping in, gifts or not.  My own parents included.  Heck, my parents would be upset if I came over without calling first. 

I hardly think it is unusual, many people don't like the drop in.  And since I don't like it, I don't do it to others either.  It wouldn't ever occur to me to pop over at someones house unannounced.

And yes, the UPS man bothers me too.  Quit ringing the doorbell, I'm doing something.  I guess the difference is that I expect a family member or friend to recognize my boundary and as it is very reasonable, not test it.  The UPS man has to do his job and frankly, I doubt he is doing it to make a point and doesn't want conversation so its a bit easier to just sign and say thanks lol.

[Shelby]

Doe - agree on the spirited opinions.  And while I appreciate the supportive opinions that a gift drop-off by MIL is not a cardinal sin - I actually learn more from the other opinions. 

They educate me as to how something I might do with best of intentions could be interpreted otherwise.  Knowing that my DIL is not the only one out there with such feelings will help me navigate the  minefield in the future (and save $$$ on gifts at the same time!) 

I like your question on whether those who resent ILs dropping off gifts would also resent friend, neighbor, co-worker dropping off gift.  That is an interesting question and I would love to hear from those who would want ILs to schedule drop-off how they feel about drop-off from other friends. 

[Doe]

 

Our office is in our home and our employees used to come by here to start and end their day so we had people coming in and out a lot.  Also, we homeschooled for many years so other families came over a lot.

Since the boys left home and we moved some of our operations down the street, not as many people come by so when someone drops in my only concern is "Am I dressed?"

And Shelby, at this rate you won't be a newbie for long! 

[Shelby]

Wow - already an interesting response from Pam.  Interesting that her parents would be upset if she came over without calling first.  Although I have learned not to drop-off at DS and DIL's house if ever they should move back to town - what is interesting is that in all this time DS and DIL have dropped in on me and my DH without advance notice.  And we have not resented it. 

DS often dropped in  by himself.  DIL never did by herself - but occasionally he would bring her with him.  One night I was about to leave for the gym and they dropped in.  I stayed, chatted, we had a nice visit and they left.  I never mentioned I was on my way to gym - nor did I resent missing the workout - I can do that later - but I think there may be double standard -  it's OK for some adult children to drop in on their parents, but it is never OK for those parents to drop in on the adult children. 

[Scoop]

I feel I have to weigh in here.

Because I would not feel comfortable visiting my DH's grandparent in the hospital.  I know that when I'm sick, I don't want visitors.  Putting myself in GFIL's shoes, I certainly wouldn't want the opposite-gender, spouse of my grandkid visiting me, alone.  Maybe this is how your DIL was thinking about it?

Or else, maybe she's not good with old people?  Or maybe, when she's at work, she's *at work* and tries to stay focused?  Or maybe when she's done her work, she doesn't want to spend any more time AT her work?  Maybe it was a combination of all of the above.

The gift drop off.  I would have to say that I resent ANYONE ringing my doorbell when I'm not expecting company.  I've had to suck it up a bit, because DD often has little friends who want her to come and play.  But, if I had just returned from a long road trip, and had just finished (or was in the middle of) my Christmas morning celebration AND I still had to get ready (soon!) for lunch with my family, then yes, it would be intrusive to have to answer the door.  Even if it was for gifts.

And even then, I would be flabbergasted that you didn't wait for us to be able to get together to exchange gifts.  To me the message would be that it's ONLY the DAY of Christmas that is important and not to bother with any other day for a get-together.  And I would wonder why you didn't want to see us open our gifts?

I'm also the type to take one thing at a time, so I would have gotten through my road trip, then my Christmas day, and then whew, now, we can take a breather and see when works to visit the IL's.  An unexpected gift drop off visit would have made me hesitate, because I wouldn't understand it.

I'm not trying to defend ALL of the DIL's behaviour here, I'm just trying to show an alternative way of thinking about it.

I'd also like to point out something my DH and I worked out between us.  It comes from one of those cheezy internet memes about "What Men Wish Women Knew" and one of them was:

"If I say something, and it can be taken two ways, and one of those ways makes you cry, I meant the other way."

It really is a good way to consider people in general.  If she's never really done anything truly hateful to you before, it would help your relationship with her if you decided to take anything she does "the other way".

As for the cabin, were you invited?  If so, then go and bring something to amuse yourself.  If not, then make alternate plans and have some fun yourself.

Good luck.

----
New information was posted as I was writing this:

Yes, I resent ANYONE dropping in.  I resent salespeople, I resent missionaries, I resent DD's friends,  I resent the one friend I have who DOES drop in.  I have even turned her away when her timing was particularly bad.  The ONLY people who are allowed to ring my doorbell unexpectedly with impunity are Girl Guides selling cookies.

[lancaster lady]

Hi Shelby and Welcome ....
My vote ....stay at home , and do all the things you want to do but can't because .............!
The thing I would like to ask you is , what does your son think about his partners behaviour towards his family ?
He seems to have accepted the fact that you two will never get along and is quite ok with that .
I sense that you are disappointed that she rejected you and your family , although you were willing to
treat her as part of it .
It would be easier to accept perhaps if you knew why , but then on this forum , we stop asking that question
of family members with unusual behaviour.
Perhaps it will always be this way for you and your DIL , mine was with my MIL , no matter what I did we never gelled .
Never bothered me , just one of those things .

[Shelby]

Doe - as far as "Am I dressed?"  I bet the plumber and painters have seen me in my big fuzzy bathrobe as often as in my street clothes. 

Scoop - you have good message in looking on bright side/giving benefit of doubt.  However ---

"Maybe she's not good with old people" - then perhaps she shouldn't be a nurse?  Especially in hospital where lots of old people die? 

She didn't have to visit alone - she could have gone with DS, said hello, then stepped out in hallway while DS visited his GF.  She could have checked his status with nurses and reported to us.  She could have sent a card to him - taken him a daisy (after all, this is the GF who paid for the flowers for her wedding to DS).  She could have asked us how he was doing.  She could have done something to show a little bit of caring.

You are flabbergasted we didn't wait for them to be able to get together to exchange gifts --  We didn't do the drop-off Christmas morning - (jumping the gun).  We had invited them for Christmas noon meal.  It turns out they went to her FOO for Christmas morning and mid-day meal, but they never even let us know they would not come to our meal.  Of course that was rude to never let us know, but we just let it go -    We waited and waited, and finally did the drop-off at 8:30 p.m. when it was clear they were going to make no effort to contact us that day.  Certainly it was hurtful to be ignored on Christmas, but if we hadn't dropped off the gifts on Christmas  I might have been tempted to return them to the store the next day 

The following Christmas, DS did come by the house.  We gave him his gifts, and also gave him our gifts for DIL for him to take to her.   I simply assume she received them, as she has never acknowledged those gifts.  So as many MILs, I'm damned if I do, damned if I don't - the drop-off one year was not appropriate (and I'm duly chastised  ) -- the delivery via DS (avoiding and unannounced drop-off) netted zero reaction from DIL.  Golly, I think I just saved myself some $$$ on this year's Christmas list!

I agree in giving benefit of doubt - but one still has to look at "the body of work".  Any one event can easily be explained away.   I did that for years.  But finally, when time after time there is snub after snub, it is simply time to cut your losses, retreat, go another direction and spend one's energies in a manner in which they are appreciated. 

I'm not mad at DIL - I simply have learned to steer clear and focus on my relationship with DS - and

[pam1]

Scoop, we have a signal for DDs friends that lets them know it's alright to come over -- one blind up.  They are all pretty good with recognizing the signal. 

Most floor nurses I know are on very strict schedules, their breaks and lunch are highly regulated since they have to meet state requirements with how many nurses per floor/unite.  They can't just leave the floor or their unit on a whim.  It's possible that she did try to visit on one of her breaks and he was sleeping and since her time is so regulated, she really wouldn't have very many chances to keep coming back.  But even so, I don't understand why anyone else would get involved -- it is her relationship with her grandfather in law, if neither of them are upset -- it doesn't make sense in my mind to make it an issue. 

Lol, I really don't think it's that interesting, I know a lot of people who don't appreciated the drop in.  Shelby, you don't know of anyone who doesn't like it? 

[Shelby]

Lancaster - you ask what does DS think about his wife's behavior towards his family?  We don't know.  We have never asked.  Nor have we ever commented to him on his behavior.  As far as some of the shabby treatment we received from them as a couple - we discussed *his* role in that (never hers), asked him to go to a counselor with us, and he did.  After a few sessions he realized he had been holding on to old high school resentments over things like curfews and our refusal to allow him to go to underage drinking parties.  Through counseling, he came to realize that ten years after high school it was time to let go of all those old resentments and start acting like an adult - which he now does. 

I feel it was productive to have a conversation and address those matters with him - as there is a solid foundation of love in our relationship with DS - but feel, as I suspect many other posters would, that to try to discuss these matters with DIL would simply backfire.  So I cannot explore *why* DIL is so disinterested.  I think it is simply my job to accept it, learn her boundaries (even if I disagree with them), and move on.  The only thing I really care about (and it is all I should care about) is our relationship with DS.  I can't change her - only my reaction to her. 

[Shelby]

Scoop - you asked if I was invited to the cabin.  My DH and I have rented the cabin.  It does not belong to DS and DIL.  It is a cabin in a vacation area where we have vacationed before - that is how DS was familiar with the area when he wanted to move somewhere he could hike all the time.  Now do I have to be invited to rent a vacation cabin from a real estate company just because it is within 20 miles of DS new home?  Cabin is for my husband and other sons to stay in during hiking trip.  DS and DIL will live in their own house, and DS can drive over to hike with the guys.  DIL can join group for dinner if she wishes.  Whatever.  But I wanted to clarify that we were not staying in cabin belonging to DS and DIL - or even just down the street.  Same general area, but 10 miles away. 

Pam1 - I don't mind a drop-off.  If someone wants to stay and talk and make a social event of it, yes I prefer that be scheduled as I,like many others, work from home.  Again, I have learned the most from posters with different thresholds of tolerance than I have.

[pam1]

Shelby, I meant do you not know of anyone else who doesn't like the drop off?  Friends or neighbors?  Just curious.  I work from home too and still can't stand it, I eventually leased a small office to meet clients at.  It also doesn't help that the doorbell sets the pack off (my pups lol.)

I don't know if I missed it, I apologize if I did, but how long have they been married?  And I take it the counseling sessions with DS happened fairly quick after the marriage?

[Shelby]

Married 3 years.  Counseling with DS were after they had been married a year and a half.  Counseling was not related to his marriage - more related to him giving up on old high school resentments. 

I too am an animal person - and yes it is frustrating when I am in the middle of business and the dogbell rings  - but that is just the price I pay for working at home and having animals.  Once my doorbell was broken, and I didn't know it for years, because the dog always barked when someone came to the door, drowning out the sound of the doorbell.  We didn't find out the doorbell was broken until after the dog died.  We now have another dog, and we refer to her as our dogbell. 

You ask if I know anyone else who doesn't like drop-offs.  I'm sure I do, I just don't know who they are as the subject hasn't come up.  I'm sure I also know lots of people who have tension with their DILs - but again I wouldn't necessarily know who they are, as I don't ask those kinds of questions of my flesh and blood friends.  Topic doesn't come up in polite society. 

I have, with the blessing of anonymity, shared thoughts/feelings here I would never share with my mother, sister, DS, friends, neighbors, etc.  I have to live with those people.  This much candor could destroy too many relationships in real life - but the candor is most helpful in sorting through emotions and relationship issues.  But I honestly cannot tell you which of my friends/neighbors has drop-off concerns or DIL issues, etc. 

[pam1]

Shelby, thanks for clarifying.

That's an interesting take on relationships, I was brought up speaking directly.  I think my father had a lot of influence on us kids, our mother was quite often sick and then they divorced so he did the lions share of parenting time for the most part. 

I think it was Scoop (sorry if I'm wrong) who posted some stuff about direct and indirect speakers.  I'm going to try to look for it, it was interesting b/c I realized how frustrated I get with DHs FOO b/c they speak indirectly. 

[Ruth]

Hi, thanks for the answer as to the time they've been married.  I consider that a very young marriage, and I think there's lots of time for dil to get more comfortable with your family and for you all to bond.   It isn't maybe as bad as you think, maybe you both are seeing things very differently.  My viewpoint on the gift drop off gifts remains unchanged, however, even though I'm the lone man out.   Please read my explanation without jumping to conclusions, as I have had much experience with my MIL doing this sort of thing.   It can become a cat fight, all cloaked under smiles.  I'm making no insinuations, just suggesting the way your dil may have viewed this.  I admit, I may be a hothead, and I  have had some very bad attitudes in the past and still have to work on being too touchy and over reacting.  I've felt awful rage at times toward my MIL.  I don't like this at all in my personality, but I work on it continually. 

I can only say that if I had for whatever reason defaulted on my promise to visit my inlaws on Christmas Day, I would consider the action of inlaws pulling up with the motor running and flying into the house with presents provoking.  I would not take the gifts well.  There now I've admitted what a nasty person I really am, but to have done what she and your ds did, not showing, was a very bad offense.  They  may have been in the middle of a huge argument, who knows what was going on in that house.  But I think your gifting gesture would have been endearing and perfect to almost any one else, but when it was toward someone who had animosity toward you and wasn't willing to be mature enough to discuss it with you, I think it was probably throwing fuel on a fire Shelby.

I am sorry about suggesting you talk with your dil, I had forgotten at that time the fact that they had moved far away.  This is just how my personality is, I want so much to make reconciliation with my loved ones that I will keep reaching out as long as I feel there's any hope at all.  And I don't know why, but I admit I am much more inclined to call my AC before a visit, and they never do and I don't feel one bit put upon that they don't call.  I'm always just happy for my children or g/c to come visit me.   But as I said, I want peace more than I want to be right.  And I will eat a lot of crow in order to promote love with those in my life who may be more immature in their loving skills, giving them time to learn as so many others gave me that valuable time and the benefit of the doubt.

[Shelby]

Ruth - thanks for your thoughtful words.  I do not think you are the lone man out on gift drop-off.  Rather, I think it is maybe a majority opposed to drop-off and a significant minority are comfortable with it.  Regardless, I have learned a valuable lesson in this forum about others' thresholds, and that will be helpful with DIL in future. 

As far as talking with DIL, I don't think their moving away has impact on decision to talk to her.  I could talk to her when guys are hiking if in fact I felt it was a good idea - which I don't think it is.  I don't think she would interpret it as an outreach.  Probably more like an attack, which I am loathe to do.  I think other posters felt it would be a mistake to open that up with her, and I have to say I agree with them

thanks for your thoughts.