March 28, 2024, 11:15:49 AM

News:

"Welcome to WiseWomenUnite.com -- When adult children marry and leave home, life can sometimes get more complex instead of simpler.  Being a mother-in-law or daughter-in-law can be tough.  How do we extend love and support to our mothers-in-law, adult children, daughters-in-law, sons-in-law, and grandchildren without interfering?  What do we do when there are communication problems?  How can we ask for help when we need it without being a burden?  And how do our family members feel about these issues?  We invite you to join our free forum, read some posts... and when you're ready...share your challenges and wisdom."


Re: Advice needed - Future daughter-in-law is allowing contact only via her

Started by Shelby, September 27, 2011, 12:58:07 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Shelby

Pam, no hostility, just bewilderment.  I have a wonderful MIL and an easy, comfortable relationship with her.  I think you're pretty quick to find fault with my gift delivery - but that's certainly a new perspective I'll give much thought to, and hearing your perspective as a DIL will help me avoid that type of mistake again.  Thanks

Doe

Interesting direction this is taking!

Shelby, when I read your post, it sounded a lot of like the situation with my son.  And I get what you are saying about DIL wanting to separate DS from the herd.  My DIL is a very independent woman who does not have a strong basic FOO.  When she came into my son's life, I watched him drop his close long term friends one by one at her urging.   DS was very loyal to his friends before, aware of their failings but still accepting.  She decided that they were going to move soon after they married and have a baby 1000 miles away from his FOO.  Ok, that's their decision.  I'm actually more comfortable with the distance between us and them as a couple.

And I get what you are saying re: doing things for DIL that you would do for family and friends and expecting normal decent behavior in return.   I'm guilty of that expectation, too!  (No more, though - I don't expect anything decent from DIL now.)

My DIL was pretty overt in her arrogance toward DH and me so when I decided I wasn't going to cater to her anymore, it was an obvious decision.    There was a final incident that I never mentioned it to my son and he hasn't mentioned it to me. We are just enjoying each other texting and email and occasional calls as we used to.  "Compartmentalizing" describes it beautifully.  I know he has a lot on his hands and I don't add any grief to his life.

Shelby

Doe - that is what I will endeavor to do - not add any grief to his life.  He is a wonderful young man - and I don't want him to feel caught in the middle - so I simply refuse to play tug-of-war.  With zero resistance from me, there can be no conflict.  At least that is my hope. 

You say your son and DIL moved away and had a baby.  How does that impact your relationship?  I suspect many might think a baby would bring all closer, but I expect the opposite would be the case.  My theory is that if I'm considered superfluous to my son's life, I'd be considered even less relevant to a grandchild's life.  What is your experience?

tryingmybest

Expectations are the killer. What I'm finding as a MIL is a constant need to make sure I don't offend, while my DIL  feels perfectly comfortable being I don't know not exactly rude, but not feeling the need to put herself out with any of the social niceties. Some people just don't have the ability to do that, or they don't feel the need to.
but I'm big on calling, I would have called first. I hate people showing up unannounced at my door.

Doe

Well, the GB is fairly new. 

I think the DIL had some sort of cartoon image of how it would all be.  While pregnant, they asked me to move out there for 3-4 months to help with childcare after the baby was born.  That was a little over the top so I agreed to one month in the fall after our busy season settled down with our business.  As it turns out, 1 week of my being there when GB was newly born was more than she could take.  It did not end well.

I reached out to make amends and during that conversation, she said that she couldn't control what I thought of her so she wasn't even going to try.   Things were pretty good for a while and I was flooded with photos and videos which was fun.  Then she got mad about something and told me to leave her alone, don't talk to her and go find something else to do with my time.  Then I had to walk the "Unfriended from Facebook" walk of shame  (read: who cares?)

So in answer to your question, who knows?  I recognize that I won't have a good relationship with GB unless I bow to DIL but it's just not worth it to me at this point.  I wasn't going to see this GB much unless I went there and I don't want all my travel time to be eaten up chasing a GB whose mom doesn't care for me. 

But who knows what the future will bring?

Ruth

Its sad this has to be so complicated Shelby.  I did wonder how long have ds and dil been married?  I'm on this forum because of estrangement from my ds, but I also have a double whammy as my MIL and I are largely estranged.  I can't imagine her taking part in this forum.  I am also both a MIL and a DIL.

I married into a small but close family.  My MIL thinks her ds (my dh) hung the moon.  He was her only son, and he grew up with a silver spoon in his mouth.  He is very kind hearted and married late in life.  However, he also somewhat failed to launch as his very close relationship to his dm made serious problems in our marriage, which eventually erupted and brought on this awful estrangement.  I won't bore everyone with that story again.

I know this is a volatile subject for you.  We all hate hanging out our dirty laundry here, but we're all courageous enough to want to plow through these issues.  I commend you for having the courage to come here and open yourself up to input.  I love these women here though.  They have helped me regain my life, and each of their personalities is precious to me.  Their insights are very helpful and I hope you will gather them all up, take a while to digest,  and see what stays down.  !   

Now what could be done to improve this situation?  It could be reparable or as in my case, not.   But if its still in the early stages, I'd suggest you contact your dil and ask her to meet someplace neutral with you, that you have  something on your heart that you must talk with her about.  Then try and just be honest with her, and ask her to share her viewpoints with you.   Open your heart, and just be a woman with her, not her husband's mother. 

You have enjoyed a wonderful life it seems.  Your dil might be a stranger to you.  It would help to ask her if you two could begin again, and get to know each other apart from ds being involved.  She might respond positively, but if she did not, I'd thank her for meeting with me, and hope that the future could bring change.  But this type of conversation has to come from a heart that is able and willing to be honest and vulnerable.  If it comes with a shadow of scolding or entitlement, the wall will go up and the door will be closed.  There is too much to gain and too much to lose to not be willing to try a new approach.

I believe appearing with gifts was covertly scolding, I would have been angry at mil.  Why were arrangements not made in advance for Christmas dinner and the family time?  I didn't understand this.  But I would think that you have to let the past be history and start over with a clean slate.  There are a million reasons why your dil could be behaving this way, but you'll never know unless you are able to get to know your dil as a person.   

I truly hope this can be turned around for your family.

Doe

fwiw, I think the gift delivery was a minor issue.    I don't get that there was a hidden message on Shelby's part but the problem is the deeper waters between the 2 women.

Not sure if I mentioned this before:  my son forgot my last birthday.  I sent him a belated birthday card saying how sorry I was the he missed my birthday, that it was a wonderful time!   Some here may take that as passive/aggressive, but he got a good laugh out of it and and took it in the spirit I intended which was a loving nudge to remember my birthday!     If we didn't get along in the first place, sending that card would have been a terrible Flunk on my part.

My point is that I think the gift delivery issue is only a symptom of the bigger problem and not a bad thing in and of itself.

herbalescapes

I'm going to disagree with Ruth and suggest no further action be taken.  It doesn't seem that there's a real problem.  Geography dictates that in-person contact will be limited.  Son seems okay with compartmentalizing his relationships so why should anyone else be bothered?  It's nice that Shelby wants a closer relationship with her DIL and would like to be friends, but her DIL obviously doesn't.  I think trying to fix things would have a high risk of making things worse. I don't imagine my following scenarios are at all accurate, but I want to offer up the possibility that DIL has some info Shelby is lacking. 

Case 1
Shelby: I was happy to lend you my car, but I was disappointed and hurt that you didn't return it when I left you a clear message that I needed it to go to the vet.
DIL:  I got your message.  I talked to your son and we agreed he'd return the car to you so he could fit in a quick visit when he returned it.  Believe me, I gave him whatfor when he got home that night still with your car.  You mean he didn't call and apologize???  I told him he needed to call you ASAP.  I am sooooo sorry.  I really thought he talked to you about this.  Do you mean you've been upset about this all this time?

Case 2:
Shelby: We felt a little hurt that you never visited Granddad when he was in the hospital.  We asked DS if you had stopped by, but he said no.
DIL: He said no because he didn't know I stopped by.  I checked on Granddad twice a day every day he was there. He was always sleeping.  I didn't want to visit during normal visiting hours because I knew the family would always have someone there and those rooms aren't exactly large.  Granddad needed his rest and too many visitors can be stressful and delay recovery.  Also, I made sure all his test results were double-checked.  I reviewed his bill and found 17 errors and corrected them before you got the bill, saving you thousands of dollars. 

Does DIL think there's a problem in the relationship?  (this is rhetorical.)  If she doesn't think there is a problem, bringing up issues can create a bigger problem than the ones you think you have. 

It seems Shelby is ok if not thrilled with the situation and she's going to have a nice staycation while the boys are off being manly men. 

Shelby

Dear Trying - thanks for the feedback on gift delivery without calling first.  Have learned my lesson!  :)    You are right about expectations being a killer.  That is why I am letting go of all my expectations.  With no expectations, there can be no disappointment, which is a blessing.  Best wishes to you regarding DIL who does not wish to connect with your family.

Doe - Bowing to DIL who doesn't care for you and chasing an exhausting toddler wouldn't be my cup of tea, either.  You DIL was expecting you to come be nanny for 3-4 months?  Wow.  Sounds like a princess.  I think you were an angel to agree to one month.  Care to share why it only lasted a week?

Ruth - many responses to your thoughtful comments.  Asking DIL to meet and have heart-to heart talk would, I feel, be perceived as extremely intrusive.  General, normal friendliness has been met with the cold shoulder, so I really don't think such a conversation would be received as anything but criticism and a boundary violation.  Gosh, lots of women here think delivering a gift is intrusive, and I feel that such a conversation would be far more of a boundary violation than that. 

As to why arrangements were not made in advance as to Christmas dinner, we did invite them to a noon Christmas dinner with our family, but they were spending that time with DIL's FOO.

Doe - thanks for the support that delivering a gift is a minor issue - but we may be in the minority.  If I knew where you and Keys lived, I could feel secure delivering gifts to you!  ;)  Glad your son took the card in the right way.  Thank you for comment that gift is only symptom of bigger problem - not bad in itself.  I couldn't agree more.   

Many of these issues are resolved since they are now far away -- Gift delivery is impossible - not that I'd ever dare try that again!  :)  Also borrowing cars won't happen -

DS does a good job maintaining relationships with his family - I am grateful for that. 

pam1

My take on it is there is not an issue with gifts being delivered -- provided that DS/DIL agreed to you coming over to their home.  And to be honest, I don't even like when people ask to come over, I'd prefer they would wait on the invite.  I don't think it is a gift issue at all other than the gift was the excuse to pop over, that is how I would take it. 

And really, this is just our opinions on it, your DIL could have been perfectly fine with it.  Which brings up another question -- how long ago did all this happen?  I'm typically a big advocate of communicating and talking it out, but I'm wondering why it wasn't brought up when these situations happened.  I think if it's been more than a year it's probably something most people would consider in the past and wonder why it was held onto for so long. 

And I know, my MIL made a stink at our wedding and I'm still having a hard time letting it go.  I just can't think of how bringing it up now will help anything, it was a long time ago.  I realized my mistake in not speaking up in the moment after that.


People throw rocks at things that shine - Taylor Swift

Shelby

In my next life, I think I'll have Doe for a DIL, not anyone who is offended at a gift delivery.  Pam, your post seems to indicate that you would expect anyone to call to ask permission to deliver a gift.  I would call and ask permission to come visit - and spend time - but I don't do that as I do not invite myself anywhere.  I wait on the invitation.  I did a 5 second drop at the door - staying no longer than you postal carrier would to deliver a package.  I think that is fairly typical Christmas behavior.  At least it is for our friends who deliver cookies, poinsettias, etc. to us during the holidays.  And I have yet to be offended at that.  I think anyone who is so offended at MIL passing gift over transom while her husband waits in car with engine running is looking for something to complain about.  But problem solved - won't/can't happen again! :)

Nana

Shelby" I wouldnt take offense if in-laws came home to drop a present.  I am not that private.  I would defenitely not try to talk things over with dil, because she had made it loud and clear she does not care, in fact, she does not want you around.   We sense when people are just introvert and different and when they just dont care being nice.
When you took her on the family trip, she could have been reserved but nice.  People might not love me, I agree, but I do expect gratitude. For me, gratitude is not optional -- it is a must.  As Doe said "Decent Behavior". 

My mil still lives (she is 90).  I always had a good relationship with her.  She would always tell me (and still does) stories of when my husband was a child (her son) .  I would have never dare to stop her .  And believe me she still tells me the same stories over and over again.....Now, I just smile.  She enjoys it, so why should this bother me if I have the time to listen?  But this is only me, I understand that being different is ok....liking or disliking comes with every individual.   My dil is now nice to me......but she wasnt for some couple of years...... As I have repeated, I cut myself off...and then things changed for the better.  Some mils are terrible, they have earned what they have....but really there are some out there (you are one of them) that are cut-off just because... without standing a chance.

Shelby...Stay home...that is my vote.  Why go and feel restless.....home is peaceful and safe lol.
I love when I come back home ..sweet home.

I wish you the best from the buttom of my heart.

Loved this discussion....all points of views are appreciated.

Love is not love Which alters when it alteration finds, Or bends with the remover to remove:
Shakespeare

Barbie

Shelby,

I think delivering gifts at Christmastime is a very kind and thoughtful gesture, we've done it too to some of our neighbors. When you don't have a good relationship with your DIL she will probably find fault in anything that you do. I'm also guilty of telling DIL stories about DS when he was little, at first she didn't seem to mind, or so I thought, but before long I realized she didn't like it or the fact that I've always put DS on a pedestal, he was my prince, guess she thought he was a mamas boy because he had me on a pedestal as well, but that's not so, those who are good sons make wonderful husbands and fathers and he is both plus he's extremely responsible and protective of his family, just like I taught him.

I understand the hurt that you felt when your father was in the hospital and DIL didn't  inquire about him, my father died and DIL didn't come to his funeral,  my DF was always very nice to her and while everyone had their spouses with them my DS showed up alone, she should have been there at least to support her husband.

I thought having a grandchild would change our relationship for the better, that DIL would understand what it's like being a parent, I was wrong again. So you see, we just need to learn to live without our DS and concentrate on us and what makes us happy, it is possible to have a happy life again, once you get used to pampering yourself it makes it easier to stop longing for what you have no control of.

Hugs.

Doe

LOL - Shelby, you can see we have a lot of spirited opinions on this forum!  Heck, we all have a lot of good advice to give and our children don't want it - it's got to be released somewhere!

Morphing this into a discussion on unannounced drop-ins - I wonder if the women who are annoyed with ILs dropping in with gifts are also annoyed with anyone dropping in with gifts?  If friends or neighbors dropped by with a gift would it cause a rift in the relationship?

Shelby

Nana and Barbie, thank you for your thoughtful posts.  It is nice to know there are some who would not take offense at a gift being delivered.  However, this forum has been most enlightening in that I have learned that there are quite a few out there who would resent a gift delivery if the giver had not telephoned first to make sure it was OK to drop off the gift.  Not come and visit and stay awhile - that clearly requires scheduling/invitation - But just a 5 second delivery should be cleared in advance.  So I have learned something new and useful.  Who says you can't teach an old dog new tricks? ;)

Barbie - I am sorry you have had to learn to live without you DS.  Any chance he could learn to compartmentalize and have a relationship with you separate from the one with his wife?  Especially if you learn, as I am trying, to respect the DIL boundaries - even if those boundaries seem unreasonable?  (to you, not to her) 

Example - I don't have to agree with people who think a gift drop-off that does not involve staying or even turning off the ignition is invasive.  However, I have to realize that some people out there do have such an opinion, and I must accept and respect their opinions and boundaries.  Therefore in the future I will not do a drop-off at those people's houses out of respect for what I may consider to be insecurity, unfriendliness or just downright silliness - but what they consider to be reasonable. 

I do think that my learning where DIL boundaries are helps maintain my relationship with DS - it may never foster relationship with DIL but that's not my goal.   My goal is to remove any possible conflict with DIL, and reduce chance of DS feeling caught in middle - thus giving my relationship with DS more strength.  Not more contact, necessarily - but just stronger foundation for the long run.  At least that's my theory and hope.

Barbie - sorry your heart aches regarding the GC and lack of relationship there.  That one I'm prepared for.  When a GC comes, I expect to be even more peripheral than I am now.  Your DIL may be insecure - and there's probably nothing you can do about that except back off.  Best wishes -

And thanks to everyone for all the wisdom.