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Adult children as bullies?

Started by SunShine, September 26, 2011, 01:58:45 PM

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Begonia

Keys Girl Said:
b]If you submit to a bully in the early stages, the bully will only increase his/her aggression in order to keep you submissive, and will often escalate the aggression to an extreme degree (that's why when a woman leaves a battering spouse, her first few days away from the bully/aggressor are often the most dangerous, the bully moves to an extreme to keep her under control, even if it means taking her life).[/b]
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I agree totally with this in cases of domestic abuse. 

And Wiki is a good source for a lot of things, but keep in mind the posts there are by anybody, not necessarily from a credible source. I think it would be simplistic to say that if the target changes behavior the bullying will stop.  We have seen case after case of victims who have tried many different things to avoid the bully and it doesn't work.  Thinking of children on a bus or playground as the Norway video points out. 
Yesterday is history, Tomorrow is a mystery, Today is a gift (Eleanor Roosevelt)

Pen

Actually, KeysGirl was quoting Sassy.
Respect ... is appreciation of the separateness of the other person, of the ways in which he or she is unique.
-- Annie Gottlieb

pam1

I have zero sources for this but I always thought bullies know exactly who to bully.  And anyone can be bullied, it just depends on the skill set of the bully.

My parents taught us as kids that the first and second time something happens you tell an authority figure, the third time....take care of it yourself.  I've noticed, at least, in my DD's classes that the bullies really only take on the vulnerable and weak, the ones who are afraid to say anything or take action.  And it's no mistake at all that the victim was chosen by the bully, they were chosen for exactly that reason.

I think as adult bullies it is similar, they chose their victims carefully and know how to push their buttons.  It is different than childhood in someways and especially, adult female bullying (which does start young) is harder to recognize b/c of the emotional aspect of it. 
People throw rocks at things that shine - Taylor Swift

Sassy

QuoteThis doesn't sound right to me, if you submit to a bully in the early stages, the bully will only increase his/her aggression in order to keep you submissive, and will often escalate the aggression to an extreme degree (that's why when a woman leaves a battering spouse, her first few days away from the bully/aggressor are often the most dangerous, the bully moves to an extreme to keep her under control, even if it means taking her life).

KeysGirl, submission is what's needed for the bullying cycle to continue.  The cycle of dominance and submission.  As a target, changing the response, to come from a different place such as assertiveness and confidence, is what can help break the cycle.

Quote[size=10pt "I don't know", "Whatever you want" are poor responses to me, they indicate passivity and as for "saying yes one day and changing the answer to no the next" that's just someone who is "flip flopping", not exactly a strong stance.[/size]

My comments about "I don't know" and other replies to yes/no question are in reference to the DH's proposal that to help avoid conflict and miscommunication, they ask DS questions that require "only" yes or no answers.   That theory put in practice has a lot of other actual outcomes besides DS saying yes or no.

Begonia

Please forgive me if I don't know who is quoting whom....we just keep on...it's all good. 
Yesterday is history, Tomorrow is a mystery, Today is a gift (Eleanor Roosevelt)

Sassy

Wiki is not an official source.  But thinking in terms of bullying, it seemed there'd be some helpful info out there that someone already did the leg work on, on how to best avoid and counter bullying.   They all come back to having confidence.  Don't give away power to bullies.  Do not allow their attempts at dominating through bullying be successful.  Easier said than done, of course.  Adults should have more skills than children do in dealing with it, but it's still tough.

Begonia

One source that I have found to be very enlightening is the work of Martin Brokenleg, a native educator.  He happens also to be a clergy but not a preacher if that makes sense.  He believes bullying stems from not feeling as if we belong.  And he works a lot with juvenile detention and the healing circle.  Like the Norway video, Brokenleg wants to also pay attention to the bully, who often has not had the love in his or her life that needed to be there.  Google his work--he is a fabulous speaker and healer.   I will also recommend the new book by Alicia Salzer Back To Life where she puts forward a new way to deal with trauma and PTSD. 
Yesterday is history, Tomorrow is a mystery, Today is a gift (Eleanor Roosevelt)

Begonia

I haven't read all of this yet, but this appears to be a good resource.  The author has written over 300 articles on bullying and this one specifically relates to being bullied by our AC. 
http://www.bulliesbegoneblog.com/2010/07/01/stop-bullying-by-toxic-adult-children/
Yesterday is history, Tomorrow is a mystery, Today is a gift (Eleanor Roosevelt)

Keys Girl

Sassy, I don't think it is possible to break the cycle of domination and submission once it has been started.  The bully wants to WIN and he/she wants you to LOSE and that is not an agenda that I believe will be changed and I think the only way to break the cycle is to LEAVE the cycle.  I don't believe you can change the cycle of the dynamics once the cycle has started.  The bully has too much at stake and will avoid "losing" at all costs by allowing you to be assertive or even aggressive so and will escalate the desire to dominate so that the target will eventually submit.  It's like an argument between a chicken and a crocodile......the chicken can cluck all it wants, the crock has those big teeth........now maybe eventually somebody will make a nice pair of shoes and matching purse out of the crock, but that won't help the chicken any.

This is just my opinion from my life experience, no professional sources to quote, and this little chicken has learned the hard way to stay out of the swamp!
"Today I will be as happy as a seagull with a french fry." Author Unknown

Sassy

Keys girl, I totally agree that leaving is one way to break the cycle.  Leaving is refusing to submit.  Leaving is refusing to give the bully any more power over you.  Leaving, like all responses to bullies, also takes confidence, self esteem, and strategy on the part of the target (as anyone married to a bully is aware of).

But leaving (flight) is not the only way.  Fight or flight.  Bullies continue to bully when it works.  When it doesn't work with you, (no longer gives them a sense of power, because you're not there, or because you no longer submit in other ways) they will simply find someone else to bully.

When leaving/flight is not someone's preferred option, then learning the skills to fight the bully is another option.  The kickbully site someone linked, lists the best tools for fighting adult-adult bullying (at work), as: uncovering true meaning and intentions, don't let him steamroll you, handle him in meetings, have fun at his expense, and adopt a strong posture.  (This is not advice for a woman married to an abusive spouse).

This link is for the page of that kickbully site that has details on those tools used to fight adult-adult bullying - I found it fascinating.   http://www.kickbully.com/tools.html


Pooh

I just took a great class at my work conference about domestic violence.  In that class, much of it was about how most domestic violence (which remember is not always physical but verbal/mental too) starts, continues and ends with bullying.  I'm playing catch-up at work this morning, but I will share a few things they told us when I get a chance later.

The reason I want to share is because during this, I was like  "OMG!  My DIL does all that!"  I bet after I share, many of you will go "OMG!  My MIL/DIL/DS/DD etc., does all that!"
We must let go of the life we have planned, so as to accept the one that is waiting for us. -
Joseph Campbell

Pooh

The reason I wanted to share this, is because the instructor kept reinforcing that all the actions taken by the aggressor are the same with bullying.  Secondly, it struck me that all the actions are things that we talk about with our situtations.

He said to think of it as a wagon wheel.  There is a center which is always "Power and Control" and to think of each action as a spoke of the wheel.  Each action is used to achieve "Power and Control".  They can use all the spokes, a couple of the spokes or any combination to try to achieve it.

The spokes were:  Jealousy, Money, Isolation, Self-Indulgance, Coercion & Threats, Emotional Abuse, Using Children, Intimidation and Minimizing/Denying/Blaming.

I found it interesting that those same spokes are the things we discuss here with our issues with people. 
We must let go of the life we have planned, so as to accept the one that is waiting for us. -
Joseph Campbell

sesamejane

Pooh, I love that metaphor and it is so helpful! 

I am going to copy it. 

Thanks!

Rose799

Thank you for sharing this, Pooh.  I heard bells ring while I read it.  Here's a site that I found interesting, though sad.

http://www.bulliesbegoneblog.com/2010/07/01/stop-bullying-by-toxic-adult-children/ 

Keys Girl

Pooh, thanks so much for posting it, that's hitting really close to home.

KG
"Today I will be as happy as a seagull with a french fry." Author Unknown