To Cook Turkey or Eat Crow that is the question

[Sassy]

I don't think you caused the problem, sweet smiles.  I just had to recommend a way I thought might help avoid stepping in something you don't want stuck on your shoe. For next time.   

I know some people who come to me with their sob stories when they want a favor. In the interest of conversation, (that give and take) I used to ask them, what are they going to do?  They were waiting for me to ask that, because it opened the door of figuring out how I could bail them out out.  How many personal days do I have left?  Maybe I could take one and watch their child, so they didn't get in trouble for staying home with their child, since their sitter is sick.  (Unsaid: so they didn't have to find and pay for a new sitter).   They knew if they just came out and asked me for the favor, it'd be easier for me to just say no.   But by talking about it with me, and inviting me in for problem solving, I become vested in their finding an outcome.  Too vested.  With people who sort of set up scenarios like that, I learned to have two stock replies.  For those I can be direct with, as soon as the story starts, I'll ask outright "What do you need?"  For those who require sensitivity for political reasons, I say something neutral along the lines of "That sounds tough. I'm sure you'll figure something out, you always do" and change the subject.  Whatever I do, I learned, in certain situations, not to ask a question unless I'm prepared to be part of the answer.

The history you explained about the cooking, which was what gave such heaviness to the idea DS was suggesting you cook dinner at his house, was that DIL does not prepare any meals for you and DH when you travel there.   WW talk about expectations.  More and more, I am believing gender roles might sometimes play a huge role in forming expectations that can set up disappointments.  Especially in the MIL-DIL relationship.

I asked about what excuses DS gives for himself not cooking when you visit.  Because even a man who does not often cook, can heat something simple up once in a while.  DS can do it. Yet DS doesn't.  I couldn't figure out why when his parents come from across the country, stay in a B&B and don't take over, and he knows his wife doesn't cook, why he doesn't offer to put at least one meal together for his parents. I think you're right its between husband and wife.  And my guess is probably not about you at all!  DIL sees DS doesn't making gestures to entertain, so she matches his efforts.   Or perhaps DS wants DIL to make the efforts, "because she's the girl", and so he doesn't either, because it'sbecome a silly standoff of sorts between them.  He could be a bit lazy when it comes to entertaining, and DIL limits are not to compensate for his laziness.  Maybe they're both not much of entertainers.  I don't know what's between them, but it's not you!

You do sound like a great MIL.   I mean it.   I heart you for the B&B.  For your own self...when you're feeling resentful, it could be worth just "checking" to see how much you may be unconsciously mentally assigning your personal roles to others, just because they're the same gender or you see them in a similar position. I'm not sure, but it might play a part. "Checking" for that tendency, might help you see things differently sometimes, so you can enjoy your beautiful family more.

[Begonia]

Good luck in getting these glitches smoothed out.  It can be snarly business for sure.  One thing that has stopped me from being excited about doing anything with family on holidays are these expectations.  I am not much for sitting around, I love to be busy.  It is very difficult for me to not want to cook or clean or something.  My SIL is a fabulous cook and when I visit DD and family I usually never do anything.  I discovered early on that me being in the kitchen was not necessary (ego thing for SIL).  So, since everyone loves KFC (me not so much... .), on the day that SIL is not cooking I pick up KFC and all the trimmings for one night.  As I am going through town I offer to stop there on my way to DD house.  Easy for everyone.  And I clean the kitchen with help from GC. 

The difficult thing for me is that both DD and DS are last minute people.  I am a planner.  So I have no idea about the holidays, which is just awful for me.  Again, I have learned not to push any plans I have on them.

Mostly, I just want to be in a foreign country over the holidays.  And this has worked well for me on several occasions. I am looking at travel opportunities now~~~~~these posts help me think it's a great idea....

[Smilesback@u]

Thanks Sassy - I respect your response and questions.  They are legit -- and all your possibilities for the dynamics between DS/DIL match up pretty good to what we have been considering.  DH said the same about at least one meal DS could fix for us, or offer to pay for a meal when we go out together.  Just offering to pay is enough for DH, who would then decline the offer and pay.  I definitely need to check myself here...as I have exactly assumed that DIL should be like me...willing to do the cooking, agreeing to that wifely duty of entertaining the ILs.  It really is a pleasure for me to entertain relatives - it is a lot of work, it really is, and tiring, but rewarding.  I accept your compliments - thank you.  I am reading I Don't Have To Make Everything All Better.  It is in agreement with you -- Listen Listen Listen and Understand, but not to give advice or get involved in the solution.  Being reflective and affirming to the owner of the problem is much more supportive -  You'll figure it out, you always do.  So I guess I am backing up here with DS/DIL to not say anymore about Thanksgiving dinner.  If there is no big meal fixed, there is no big meal fixed.  We will not go hungry I am sure.  So I will not bring it up and if the subject comes up, I will say I am sure you both can figure out what to do for Thanksgiving, as you have done it before.  And change the subject...we are looking forward to watching the GC for you two to get away and have some fun ideas to do with the GC.  Thanks again Sassy for following up with me -- I think I am getting it. 

[Smilesback@u]

Hey Bee - going overseas for holidays sounds wonderful!  Maybe I should be thinking along those lines now that we probably will not be having everyone getting together?  DH brought it up once about sightseeing at Christmas time when I was having my angst about holidays.  Hope those airfares or cruises are available for you then? I relate to being a planner and it is hard to not to step in and take over.   Not planning on my DS  part is fairly typical.  Since I am not going to be in charge of cooking, DH just last night said DS defers to not planning and so he predicts we will not have a special Thanksgiving meal.  DH is okay with that, and offered that he will take me out for a nice dinner then, sweet man, and we both love to eat.  I like your idea of picking something up for one of the family meals - really generous idea (aka KFC which is not my specialty either -- but I get the idea and alot less expensive than taking everyone out to a restaurant).  Yeah, we find out there is more to life on WW than worrying about stuff that is not our business.  Hugs back to you too Bee - thanks,

[Begonia]

Smiles:  When I started traveling on the holidays I was pleasantly surprised to find a zillion people who preferred to travel vs do all the chaos with their kids, IL, etc.  My favorite has to be all the different places I have had pumpkin pie on Thanksgiving.  And one year I volunteered to help with our big "free" Thanksgiving dinner here in my town.  That was the best of all.  I was in the dish room with all these other wonderful people who turned out to help make Thanksgiving a nice meal for people who would not have had a nice dinner otherwise. We fed over 3,000 people so you can imagine the dishes.  It was delightful to work with so many neat men and women....And nobody was lounging around in another room watching TV while I slaved over stuff in the kitchen!!

[Smilesback@u]

that Thanksgiving sounds memorable Bee -- and a good idea for us at Christmas time too.  I think I am getting the idea that holidays do not have to mean this pull and tug-of-war with family.  I made a nice photobook of our visit in summer to GC and plan to read it to them when we visit.  I will take more photos from that visit and make a book too.  The GC will have memories of us and we will have photobooks to enjoy - minus the disappointments etc. 

[Begonia]

Smiles, you sound just like the kind of GM that I am.  Our GC will have memories of us that are not filled with strife and conflict.  Good for you!

[forever spring]

We had the most awful Christmas last year, everything that could go wrong - did and we just sat around trying to be jolly for the sake of the GKs but we were really awfully heavy hearted. No details - I think you get the picture.

For this year we'll buy really nice presents for everybody, have a short farewell drink and take ourselves off to the other side of the world where we will visit lots of lovely friends and enjoy the summer sunshine! Call it hard-hearted, call it self indulgent but we will do it and all being well, everybody will have a good Christmas in the knowledge that everybody is doing their own thing and liking it. No pressure. Physical presence is not always necessary for families but somebody has to be bold enough and say: We enjoy doing our thing, you enjoy doing yours and if we spend Christmas together again it will be a very special occasion and not a chore!

[Pen]

I'm still not getting this division of "Your parents, your responsibility." Was there a marriage or not? When I married, I took on my ILs just as my DH took on mine. He has cooked for mine, I've cooked for his. We divvy up the entertaining chores based on our schedules and our skills rather than who is blood-related to whom. And I definitely do not understand expecting so much labor out of guests! When my GPs came to stay for the holidays they were my parent's honored guests, as my kid's GPs are treated when they come here. They helped out with little things when it seemed appropriate but were not expected to do the major portion of the work of feeding the family. I'm still shaking my head over that one.

Besides, those doing the long-haul travel have already pitched in quite a bit in money, effort and time. That's the major portion of your contribution to the holiday! IMO, the people lucky enough to stay home get the cooking chores (and the leftovers, lol.)

My DIL doesn't want to entertain us because she does not like us. Our DS on the other hand was raised to find the good in people and has figured out how to get along well with his wife's FOO. He lets what annoys him about them go (and there is plenty, BTW.) So we're being punished in a way because we raised a kind, caring man and DIL's FOO raised a snooty woman.

I don't know, Smiles...my hope is that you are cherished and valued by your family as you cherish and value them. I hope it all works out well. You deserve to be able to communicate w/o feeling you're going to blow it. I know I'm really tired of worrying about it with my DIL/DS...I doubt they're sitting at home worrying about how I feel!

[Smilesback@u]

*be bold enough and say: We enjoy doing our thing, you enjoy doing yours and if we spend Christmas together again it will be a very special occasion and not a chore!* thank you for this

[pam1]

Pen, I think the problem is when DH doesn't take his own parents or ILs on.  It only seems to be a problem when DIL isn't doing it though.

[Smilesback@u]

Thank you all, I feel fortified and know I do not have to eat crow or cook a turkey.  I shake my head too over all of this competition to NOT put out any effort to entertain relatives.  I hope it is just this one DS who will feel this way. I have no excuse to let myself get *used* as I have options.  I will continue to find a way to have fun over holidays (with or without family).  It is very nice to feel okay about being together or not.  The first one is always difficult - cuz it is new ground breaking rules.  Thanks you all again.   

[forever spring]

My SIL is a fabulous cook and when I visit DD and family I usually never do anything.  I discovered early on that me being in the kitchen was not necessary (ego thing for SIL).  So, since everyone loves KFC (me not so much... .), on the day that SIL is not cooking I pick up KFC and all the trimmings for one night.

Three cheers for your SIL - can I adopt him please!

[Begonia]

Chelms:  LOL...yes, it is my SIL who has tried to reason with my DD about how lucky she is to have her parents, etc. SIL can cook things that are just awesome (DD doesn't cook--good for her).  He could probably be a great chef but he is a welder and creates amazing things with steel too.  He probably would love to be adopted since he really has no functional FOO.  But be prepared for a huge grocery bill..he is 6'5"!!!

[momof7]

And I thought I was the only one with Thanksgiving Day woes.  Last year my DS and DIL along with DGS invited themselves to dinner.  Not that I minded.  I liked the sense of family.  DIL offered to cook a bird.  Said no thanks.  I have 5 children still at home.  I shopped, cooked the meal and set the table with all the beautiful china, etc.  While everyone relaxed I washed the dishes and cleaned up.  They didn't even remove thier plates off the table.  As my back and feet began to hurt from more than 2 hours of cleanup and all the cooking, I found myself getting madder and madder and resenting everyone.  This year I'm going out to eat!