Attachment

[justus]

The Buddhists believe that much of our pain occurs because of attachment. Attachment to persons, to feelings, to expectations and to things. If we are attached to things turning out a certain way, it causes us pain when they turn out differently. If we are attached to people being a certain way, it causes us pain when they aren't that way. If we are attached to things, we feel pain when we loose them. I learned of this when I was young and it has always had an impact on how I view the world.

I had hoped my GD would always live near me and it caused me pain when SD decided to move across the country. This concept of attachment has not lessened the pain of her absence in my every day life, but it has put the responsibility for that pain on my shoulders right were it belongs. It is after all MY attachment. I could be very angry with my SD, and I certainly don't agree that moving was the best thing for her or her DH or SD, but it isn't mine judge. I am not attached to the idea that my opinion is important in their decision making, nor to am I attached to the idea that my R with my GD is the primary R to be considered in their decisions for their family. Even so, there is hole in my life that is going to be wounded and gaping for a while. It will heal, and my life will go on, it just won't be as rich and meaningful as it was when I could walk down the block to see my GD.

Not that attachment is bad, we are supposed to be attached to our families and the pain from the attachment is often a signal that something is wrong. When DH pointed out when he was very close to having an emotional affair that if I didn't have a problem with his R with this girl, there wouldn't be a problem, I agreed and told him that if I wasn't attached to him, that if I didn't love him, and if I wasn't attached to a certain idea of what I expected out of a husband, we wouldn't be M and there wouldn't be a problem. (Went on to tell him that I was so attached to a certain idea of a mate that we were very close to divorcing and if he didn't have a problem with that, there wouldn't be a problem) Turned out he was more attached to me than he or that girl thought.

I have always thought of my children as gifts that I had temporary custody. I knew and accepted that they would move on with their lives and probably away from us. Right now, they are scattered across the country. My one Son-in-law likes me and I can only hope that I am as lucky with the mates the other two finally choose. Even without being attached to some idea of a family that lives close and is close, their absence is hard.

Have you ever considered your R with your children from the perspective of attachment? What do you think?

"Grasping at things can only yield one of two results:
Either the thing you are grasping at disappears, or you yourself disappear.
It is only a matter of which occurs first."
Goenka

[cremebrulee]

I have learned not to count my chickens before they're hatched, or rather, not to have any expectations of anyone....

That is another reason why I plan a vacation by myself....
so many women say, yes, we'll go, and then end up backing out...it happens all the time...so, I don't have expectations any longer...my philosophy is, if and when it happens, ok, but I'm not going to get excited, until it does....

I've now grown so accustomed to vacationing alone, that I love it...I can be so selfish and do anything I want...and it's really great. 

It seems married women don't want to go away without they're husbands, and single women, do not want to spend the money....

so...I believe it's healthier not to have expecations of others...but attachments are good, as long as we are not smothering or being smothered...I couldn't handle that....

[just2baccepted]

The Buddhists believe that much of our pain occurs because of attachment. Attachment to persons, to feelings, to expectations and to things. If we are attached to things turning out a certain way, it causes us pain when they turn out differently. If we are attached to people being a certain way, it causes us pain when they aren't that way. If we are attached to things, we feel pain when we loose them. I learned of this when I was young and it has always had an impact on how I view the world.

I had hoped my GD would always live near me and it caused me pain when SD decided to move across the country. This concept of attachment has not lessened the pain of her absence in my every day life, but it has put the responsibility for that pain on my shoulders right were it belongs. It is after all MY attachment. I could be very angry with my SD, and I certainly don't agree that moving was the best thing for her or her DH or SD, but it isn't mine judge. I am not attached to the idea that my opinion is important in their decision making, nor to am I attached to the idea that my R with my GD is the primary R to be considered in their decisions for their family. Even so, there is hole in my life that is going to be wounded and gaping for a while. It will heal, and my life will go on, it just won't be as rich and meaningful as it was when I could walk down the block to see my GD.

Not that attachment is bad, we are supposed to be attached to our families and the pain from the attachment is often a signal that something is wrong. When DH pointed out when he was very close to having an emotional affair that if I didn't have a problem with his R with this girl, there wouldn't be a problem, I agreed and told him that if I wasn't attached to him, that if I didn't love him, and if I wasn't attached to a certain idea of what I expected out of a husband, we wouldn't be M and there wouldn't be a problem. (Went on to tell him that I was so attached to a certain idea of a mate that we were very close to divorcing and if he didn't have a problem with that, there wouldn't be a problem) Turned out he was more attached to me than he or that girl thought.

I have always thought of my children as gifts that I had temporary custody. I knew and accepted that they would move on with their lives and probably away from us. Right now, they are scattered across the country. My one Son-in-law likes me and I can only hope that I am as lucky with the mates the other two finally choose. Even without being attached to some idea of a family that lives close and is close, their absence is hard.

Have you ever considered your R with your children from the perspective of attachment? What do you think?

"Grasping at things can only yield one of two results:
Either the thing you are grasping at disappears, or you yourself disappear.
It is only a matter of which occurs first."
Goenka

Justus you sound like this thought pattern may save you from emotional pain in the future.  I had the expectations that my family and DH's family would all be close, however I was dead wrong about this.  I've learned that when insecurity and jealousy is involved that completely erodes relationships.  But I agree that everyone here one this board would probably be saved much heartache if we all tried to lower expectations.  What you said really rang true for me.  I had this ideal of this loving close family.  I never dreamed certain family members would hate or dislike me b/c of their own jealousy and insecurity issues.  But I really plan to take what you said to heart about lowering expectations.

As for the moving situation.  I'm sorry your family moved.  I know how that must for you.  Me and DH used to live about thirty minutes from MIL/FIL.  We then built a house and moved an additional thirty minutes from them.  So now we are only an hour apart.  But MIL/FIL couldn't handle the fact that we moved(my family's hometown).  FIL would pout everytime we asked them over so we don't ask them down anymore.  MIL got very depressed and would smash breakable items after we moved, this according to SIL.  We only 30 additional minutes away from them.  I just don't understand this irrational response to us moving.

[just2baccepted]

Thanks Creme for the support, that always helps when someone tells you that's okay to stop someone from doing this instead of pressuring you to "forgive" so that we can keep the family intact and continue walking on eggshells so this idiot won't go off the deep end and lose control.  But I have not seen or talked to this uncle now in over three years and I don't plan to ever again.  My aunt has had strokes in the last three years and she has really started going down hill. (Aunt started having strokes around the time that my uncle started having an affair with his high school girlfriend.  He was hoping GF would leave her DH for my uncle.  So my aunt was just waiting to see what was going to happen.  Her and uncle had been married for 51 years and she was a housewife.  Not too long after this she started having strokes.  I think it was from all the stress.)  So hopefully someday soon my  mom won't have to go around this jerk anymore either.

[justus]

Just2be, I was depressed after they left. They moved to the other side of the country, which means we will see them maybe once or twice a year. Kids, and then grandkids give you a purpose and you don't really understand how deep that purpose is until they are all gone.

DD moved about four hours away in August to go to grad. school. That felt OK, though. It felt like I was leaving her where she was supposed to be. She was ready to do this and it was a good thing all around.

SD decided she needed a change RIGHT NOW, so, SIL left a very good paying job with benefits, and they sold their house to move across the country where they did not have jobs waiting to live in her M's basement. In this economy, it will be very hard for SIL to find a comparable job at which it will take him several years to get to the pay he was at here, and the cost of living is much higher there so houses will be totally out of their reach for several years. Did I mention that she and her M cannot spend more than two weeks together without wanting to kill each other? I know she needed a change, but the way she did it was not wise.

She is the type of person who has to learn the hard way, but now GD will suffer because of her bad choices. I guess only time will tell if this was a truly bad choice. God knows I made some doosies in my own time. Maybe this will turn out to be the best decision they could have made.

On top of desperately missing all of them, I worry about them. I never once broke anything, and there is no way I would ruin my time with them by pouting. Before they left, I spent every minute I could with them and made the best of it. Even though I didn't agree with their decision, I supported them and helped them as I could. It is their life after all, and they didn't have GD for me to have purpose.

I understand how your ILs feel, but like you I don't understand their response. I am struggling to find a purpose outside of myself, but understand the futility of expecting a person(s) to fill that need. My DS suggested we adopt after I told him how I was feeling (he lives 10 hours away), but I immediately rejected that suggestion. It would be selfish of me to use another person like that and it would only put this crisis off another 15-20 years to when I was 60 and less emotionally flexible.

Rather than being adult, and using your move as a impetus for personal growth and understanding, your MILs are indulging themselves in self-pity. It is an easy trap to step into and a hard one to get out of. I hope they find a way out of it before things get to a point of no return for you.

[just2baccepted]

On top of desperately missing all of them, I worry about them. I never once broke anything, and there is no way I would ruin my time with them by pouting. Before they left, I spent every minute I could with them and made the best of it. Even though I didn't agree with their decision, I supported them and helped them as I could. It is their life after all, and they didn't have GD for me to have purpose.

I think that my MIL/FIL are not emotionally healthy or normal so I think that's why couldn't approach our move more like you.

My sister and her DH moved a state away several years ago when my niece was still a baby.  I was only 20 at the time but I was devastated.  I was so attached to my little niece.  But thank God they got transferred back and by the time they got back my niece was talking a little and could identify her body parts.  I was in amazement.  It had been several months since I had seen her but when I first saw her she was sitting on my aunts daybed when I walked through the door.  I'll never forget it, I was so happy.  I asked her to identify all her body parts like my sister taught her.  I remember just laughing and was so amazed at her growth.  So believe me I know how you feel!!

I'm sure everyone and their dog has told you what I'm about to suggest but here it goes.  I would look into other ways to finding purpose to your life again.  If you're retired then maybe look for a part time job.  I used to work at a retail store years ago and there was this lady that worked there part time.  She came from a wealthy family that owned a very popular car dealership in our area, but she did this for the social interaction.  I used to do an internship with children who had been sexually abused as apart of my degree, but there is a huge need for volunteers.  Many social service agencies would love to have volunteers.  Maybe find a hobby that could involve other women your age.  And then my favorite is church activity and involvement.  There is this lady in our church, she has type 1 diabetes but she doesn't let that slow her down one bit.  She hosts socials, parties, and Bible studies at her house.  She's got her toe in just about everything.  Church has wonderful opportunities for people to socialize etc.  Do you love pets??  Boy I do.  I've volunteered with them before.  Oh boy do animal sanctuaries need volunteers.  Those precious little animals need to petted and loved.  The only downside is the smell and the poop.  But its all worth it.  Sometimes it can be a tad depressing too.  But I think if I can add something special to their lives I can try to overlook my pain I'm feeling for them.

There are so many opportunities to feel needed.  You just have to take small steps and try different things to find something that brings you joy and happiness.  I believe with all my heart the God wants us be happy.  Please don't let this depression go on too long.  Allow yourself time to grieve this loss and then jump back out there in the game.  That's so important to do after a loss.  It's up to us to make life worth living.  God Bless you. 

[Pen]

DS and I have had a special bond due to common interests. We're both verbal and kind of geeky about it which can lead to long, loud discussions/debates. DH is the strong, silent type and DIL, although very smart and expressive, seems to prefer fluffy talk that centers around her/her family. I really miss having those long, informative talks with DS. When he went to college I guess I expected that he'd share his new knowledge and insights with us. He seems to want to - recommends books or articles, etc. but we never have an opportunity to talk anymore. If that's an attachment issue, I suppose I'm guilty.

[2chickiebaby]

Yes, I have the same issues.  Long, great conversations of substance. This really bothers the DILs so it can't  happen anymore.  Gotta get over it but it's hard.  I'm having a really bad day.

[Pen]

I'm sorry to hear that, Chickie. I'll be thinking of you.

[2chickiebaby]

Oh, thank you, Pen.

[justus]

Oh, I've got hobbies (guitar, photography, and weight lifting to name a few) and a full time job with college aged people to whom I have become a surrogate mother. I plan on going to grad school to start a new career. It just isn't the same. These things don't fill that void. It has only been a couple of months and I am already feeling better about life though. I am not the kind of person who can stay depressed. Really this is an opportunity for DH and I to do things we always dreamed of doing and we plan on not letting the opportunity pass. Don't worry, I won't let myself drown in self-pity.

[justus]

Pen, I think it is an attachment issue. You are attached to having a certain kind of R with your son that either he doesn't share anymore, or he doesn't have time for, or it simply isn't as important to him as it is to you. It could be a lot worse.

I noticed that with my kids we have waves of long conversations,  and when the tide goes out there is radio silence. They all have so much going on that is much more immediate than an occasional phone call with dear old mom. I understand this as my own mom was attached to the idea of having a much closer R with me than was healthy. The more I didn't satisfy her idea of how our R should be, more upset she became, the more I pulled away, the more she held on tighter, the harder I pushed her away, the more she tried to manipulate the situation until I finally cut her off. I figure I don't want to be cut off, so I am not going to hold on at all. I follow their lead and am satisfied with what I have even though I might wish it were different.

BTW, you have to be smart to sit at our dinner table to keep up. We have three genius level people in our family plus several cynics and smart alecs. We speak words most people never read. My poor SIL really felt left out at first. He is a very smart guy, but grew up thinking he wasn't. His focus has been on carpentry/building, just generally doing things with his hands, not on intellectual pursuits. Once we became aware of this, we had to modify our dinner table conversations so that we had both the high level intellectual conversations and conversations that he felt comfortable being a part of. It is just polite and considerate.

Before, you just had your DH to think of and he was used to you, now you are blessed with the presence of this other human being who is very different than you and who is very important to your DS. Is there a way for you and your DS to spend some alone time together, say doing lunch once a month, or spending a small part of your visits having the kind of conversations you enjoy while not totally boring your DIL the entire visit?

[justus]

Chicky, why does it bother the DILs? Does it bore them, does it make them feel left out?  Is there a way you can have these kind of conversations over the phone or through email or a networking site?

It bothers me that you blame the DILs. Your sons are big boys and make their own choices. Frankly, if it came down to choosing between my M and my DH, I would choose my DH almost every time. It is what good Ms are made of. You know, you leave your parent's home and cleave unto your spouse.... You do want your DSs to have good Ms, right?

Your DILs are human and they are different than you. So, they have different ideas of what their own M should be like. It is up to your DSs and their Ws to figure out and decide how their M should be. The spouse should come first when it comes to anyone else, including one's M. I know it sucks when it seems like you are getting the short end of the stick through no fault of your own, but we cannot keep our children single, and we cannot choose their mates. It a sort of crap shoot. I have no idea if I will even like my DS's and DD's future mates, and if I am honest with myself I know it doesn't really matter. What matters most to me is that they choose good mates for themselves and have good Ms.

I am sorry this is so difficult for you. Maybe if you changed your focus from yourself and your hurt feelings to doing what you can to support your son in his M and support them both as Ps. When my SD was being a total idiot after GD was born and it looked like I wouldn't get to be a part of GD's life, that is what I concentrated on and it helped. It didn't stop the pain, but it helped me to feel useful and eventually it was what brought SD to her senses.

[2chickiebaby]

Amen, Anna....

[cremebrulee]

There are some people who, unfortunately, can't be reached no matter what you do.  They don't want to be reached. they don't care how anyone else feels. Yes my son is a big boy & can make his own choices but if dil doesn't like his choices she proceeds to make his life a living h---.  so what are our sons to do?  Try to have a normal relationship with their motherrs, & suffer the consequences from wife.,  Or just give in to wife to have peace.  He has to live with her, I don't.  I know my son will probably choose peace.  Even tho he sometimes doesn't agree with dil, he will go along because he wants peace.  Dil knows this, & uses that too !!

Yes Anna, the majority of men, do that...it is very sad...all we can do is pray they do have peace...

I speak of my friends with sons, who have married wonderful woman...that's all I wanted for DS...so much...for him to experience love...and so he has...