Please help me try to settle an old score

[sesamejane]

I am so sorry Ruth.  How insensitive of her, and she should have known better too. 

My understanding is, that although it is popular to believe that personality disorders are "incurable," that is not necessarily accurate.  Diagnoses are just  very human attempts to conceptualize a string of 'symptoms imho.  Sometimes, I think we overdiagnose, and then of course, the doctors or psychiatrists try to find a med to "fix it."  Soon we have folks taking cocktails of medications and feeling hopeless about their condition.  Taking meds to cure the problems associated with taking so many meds!  I digress...

Perhaps your son is personality disordered and rigid in the way he sees the world.  But there were a lot of influences in his life that had nothing to do with you.  Even the personality disordered have the ability to take in new information if desired.   

[Scoop]

Oh Ruth, I just commented on your post the other day where you said that you "didn't pick up his baggage".  I think that you were so right, it's HIS baggage and only he can carry it.  If he gets tired of carrying it around, he can also choose to lighten his load if he wants to.  However, it has to come from him.

I forget, does he have kids?  Maybe becoming a parent will help him see.  Maybe not.  You don't have to close the door on this, but you can't carry his baggage for him.

So, you have to forgive yourself.  It sounds hokey, but sometimes you have to say the words out loud.  "I forgive you, Younger Self.  You did the best you could.  If you had known it would turn out like this, you would have done differently.  I know you're sorry.  I forgive you."  And you have to say this every time those feelings pop up.  Eventually, they'll fade away.

As for DS, continue on a acquaintance level relationship.  Don't dig too deep.  If he tries to dump anything on you, refuse to accept it.  Tell him "I'm sorry that your childhood sucked so hard.  I did the best I could at the time.  I've forgiven myself, but we can't move away from this until you forgive me.  Will you forgive me?"  (OOH! Put it RIGHT in his lap!)

[Keys Girl]

Ruth, I wouldn't apologize to him.  Will he apologize to you for being a son who is resentful and bitter? Not likely.

It sounds like your son was alienated from you by this father, a cruel but not unusual thing to do and perhaps some of his personality traits are also part of the issue.

I don't think there is a solution for you, I don't think there is something that you need to say to change the circumstances, if anything, I think that perhaps by saying something that might be like re-opening the "can of worms".

I think that as young mothers we often had to keep trying different things when our children were young.......is he sick?......what is it? whooping cough? pneumonia? croup? .............oh.....ear inflection and/or common cold?! I think we had to search and try to find the solution to the dilemma and we keep searching for the solution to the relationship dilemma.

At this point in my life, I've decided that I'll let someone else worry about the nuts and bolts of THEIR lives, who they want to spend time with, who they might want to bad mouth me to, who wants to listen to that baloney and whatever resentments are carried forward in judgment by them, are theirs to choose to carry.

If your son (as well as mine) wish to carry the burden of resentment and finger pointing towards us, it is profoundly sad.  I don't know that all of that hostility is rightfully directed at us.  I once had a counsellor tell me that my son would always treat his father better than me because he felt the bond with this father was tenuous so he needed to favour him, but the bond with me was strong, so he was confident that I wouldn't abandon him.   So the parent who poisoned his mind with hostility towards me and treated him badly gets to be treated as the "great" parent? who shuffled this deck of cards? and why do I have the lousy cards?

I can attest to the profound and difficult task it is to face the fact that someone to whom you devoted decades of time, energy, love and patience, now treats you in a way that is frankly, heartbreaking.

I don't think you expected this,  neither did I, I don't think any of us mothers did.

I think the best thing to do is move forward and spend as much time as you can with the people who don't resent you but love to be around you, who celebrate the time they have with you and who applaud your new achievements and goals.  Whether or not they are "blood" is not important.

I think it's hard to move forward because in doing so there might be a certain sense of failure, ie. if I don't stop searching for the "solution", the day will come when my son and I will have the relationship I always hoped and longed for.

I know that in my case, I've stopped searching my memory banks with the "If only I had" record playing.  It's difficult to let it go, but as they say "The past is a good place to visit but I wouldn't want to live there".

[SunShine]

Ruth, you said you already have apologized. I think if he did not accept, he has growing up to do. You've done your part and put your heart on the line and it is he who should feel bad for not accepting your apology. I have a different take on this. It may or may not be true in your case. My stepson had his parents divorce when he was thirteen and my DH did not realize the lies his ex wife fed his son until years later. My DH did not want the divorce and couldn't understand why his son didn't see him for three years. Turns out the ex wife told the son a pack of lies. You have no idea what your ex husband has told your DS. If anything, you may want to find out what your DS was told by his father concerning you. I did read an article today that said that when one parent lies about another, the child sides with the lying parent. It's like being brainwashed. It was a total shock to my stepson when he found out the truth and that his mother was lying about his father. When my stepson realized this, it was hard. It took time for things to mend, but they did. Instead of apologizing, my DH told his son, your mother lied to you and you can talk to anyone in my family about that. All he could do was tell him the truth about his youth and his mother's cheating ways. All my DH could do was to tell his son the ugly truth about his mother. She lied to her son and told all sorts of stories to my stepson, so she wouldn't look like the guilty party. She wanted to come out smelling like roses. Beware of this. Forget what you may have perceived that you did... I'd worry more about what your ex husband said to your son about you, that might not be true. I don't know if that will be the case, but you'd be surprised what an ex can do. You already apologized. I wouldn't do that again. I would look into if your ex husband told your son things that weren't true or blown out of proportion about you. I would look into that angle. It could be a reason your son is alienated from you. So, you've already apologized and perhaps you need to have a heart to heart about the real truth of the past. You could be blowing out of proportion your part in this. No parent can be perfect like they show on TV and we are human. Children need to grow up and learn that. However, if your son is walking around with false information, that could change things. Good luck.

[Pooh]

Sunshine is right.  When my Ex left our marriage, he had a girlfriend.  When my OS found out, he was furious...next thing I knew, OS was mad at me.  Why?  Because his Father proceeded to tell OS the only reason he found a girlfriend and left our marriage was because I had been having an affair and he was tired of it.  It was a total lie.  When I found out, I sat OS and YS down and told them both that it was not true.  I still think to this day, OS believes his Father and that is a major part of our issue of why he will have nothing to do with me, but hangs out with his Dad.  Knowing that his Father told him that lie, I can imagine what else he has told him.  His Father could never tell the truth during our marriage, so it didn't shock me in one sense, but yet it did that he would do that to his Sons. 

There is no telling what he could have been told.  The bad thing is, even if you ask and find out things, and try to tell him the truth, he may not be able to hear it or believe you.  It may take him getting older to be able to hear it.

[Ruth]

I began to feel very blue this evening.  This is part of the roller coaster we talk about, and when this happens I revert to that old crazy behavior of trying to reconstruct memories and make all the pieces somehow fit together.  When I did my meditations, however, I began to think on a more simple explanation - individuals make the choice to look for reasons to love and accept, or look for reasons to hate and reject.  My two children each took the opposing side.  I was the same person on both counts.  I think even those who really scored and have those close happy family units could be put under a microscope, and if it were the objective to find reasons to hate and reject, they could be found in all of us.  The real problem isn't the reasons DS harbors in his mind against me, its the fact that he wants to hate and reject. 

[SunShine]

That makes sense Ruth. Children do choose a path. Perhaps he needs to blame someone for his life not being the way he wants it to be. It's easier to blame you than to blame himself or his father. His father probably doesn't allow your DS to blame him. Your DS might think you are an easier target. One day your DS will have to look in the mirror and stop blaming others and start looking at himself. I'm sorry you are going through this.

[Rose799]

I began to feel very blue this evening.  This is part of the roller coaster we talk about, and when this happens I revert to that old crazy behavior of trying to reconstruct memories and make all the pieces somehow fit together.  When I did my meditations, however, I began to think on a more simple explanation - individuals make the choice to look for reasons to love and accept, or look for reasons to hate and reject.  My two children each took the opposing side.  I was the same person on both counts.  I think even those who really scored and have those close happy family units could be put under a microscope, and if it were the objective to find reasons to hate and reject, they could be found in all of us.  The real problem isn't the reasons DS harbors in his mind against me, its the fact that he wants to hate and reject.

I was in the same state last night, Ruth, & when I got up, I read this post.   Thank you for pouring your heart out as you do.  You have a way of expressing things that can't put words to.  Sometimes I read your posts to dh so that he can better understand me.  I showed him this one.  He agreed that dd has me under a microscope, searching for reasons to hate & reject.  That realization helped take a load off, as I realize there's nothing I can do to change it.  I cannot fathom anyone having issues with you, as you are one of those loving, caring persons on this planet.  I hope you realize that you deserve better.  Love you, Ruth (hugs)

[Ruth]

I can't remember any one ever saying anything more touching to me, Rose, thank you.  It means a lot to me.

[hurting2011]

If you did the best you could at the time..quit beating yourself up! One you can't go back only forward. At this point, I would ask your son if there is a way to "fix" this. If he has a reasonable response, I certainly would jump at the chance but if doesn't, you just have to tell him you love him and let him know if he ever changes his mind, you will  be there.


You and I are kinda in the same boat. My DS really did have a pretty good childhood. We weren't a perfect family by any means. Of course, if I could go back and knowing what I know now - yes I would change a few things. Unfortunately, my DS remembers things that I honestly don't  -almost like we were in two totally different homes.

I look back on pictures of some of our best times and they validate my recollection of how things were. They also give me hope of having him back in our life.   

Hugs.... I am praying it will work out for you!

[Rose799]

I can't remember any one ever saying anything more touching to me, Rose, thank you.  It means a lot to me.

I lost my 1st post & when I rewrote it, it didn't come out quite as intended, but I'm glad you got the gist of it.  You mean a lot to me, too, Ruth.