Hello

[Belle]

Herbalescapes - that post was BRILLIANT.  It puts so much into perspective about what we expect from our communications with others (or lack thereof).  I MUST go read that book.  I'm intrigued! 

[Ruth]

I found this topic and all the replies very interesting and important.  It may be a great deal of what this forum's about - acceptance.   This situation seems to me one that may just have to be accepted, the suggestions were great and I especially liked the one about attending recitals, game, graduations etc as a means of staying in touch with g/c, I initially liked the one about scrapbooking or finding a common hobby, but after reading more I don't think this will work, because frankly, it seems to me that the DIL just isn't interested, she doesn't find MIL relevant, or she doesn't especially like the MIL's style.  It may not be anything that can be remedied at this time, but most of all I would not try and 'force the matter to its conclusion.'  Many of us here have had to come to terms with not being in the life at all of one of our children.  It is very hard.  We cannot make another person want us in their life.  I think MIL's have a harder time grandparenting a son's children than a daughter's.  The mother of the children is largely in charge.  You didn't cause this problem, Christy, and I hope you can come to terms for the time being with it as it is.  You know life however has a way of changing things, and the road will turn somewhere up ahead and you may be viewed differently by your DIL.   This might be one of those times when the thing to do is the thing that's prized in my DH's family - act as if nothing had ever happened.

[Sassy]

Herbalescapes, how very interesting is the information you shared about "direct" and "indirect" questioning styles!

I have been thinking about this, and about Chrisky's situation.  How DS has expressed that he feels his wife is being disrespected. How her DS said his wife feels she's tried, and Chrisky's musing (to us, I assume, not said aloud to her DS) Tried how? By ignoring us?  And it struck me: well, perhaps, yes. 

If DIL was a personal acquaintance of mine and did not return my calls, I would eventually realize she did not wish to talk on the phone to me.   There is, to me, a very clear although "indirect" message sent by several unreturned phone calls.   (And more so by years of them.)  And that message is simply that the recipient of those calls chooses to decline the opportunity to speak on the phone.  Perhaps the multiple phone messages, or that DIL calling them is being  presented again and again to DS or DIL, that DIL is expected to place phone calls to them, despite her sending the clear message that she does not wish to, is part of what makes DS and DIL feel that she is being disrespected.  I understand Chrisky's and her DH's phone messages are being ignored.  Yet it seems DIL's phone messages are being ignored, as well.  Just a thought. 

If her DIL's messages that she does not want to place phone calls is something that Chrisky and her DH can accept, and DIL starts to feel her limits are being respected in that regard, I wonder if that would allow room for eventual improvement in other aspects of the relationship.

[Chrisky]

I'm sorry, but I'm looking at this way differently due to my situation.

DIL loses nothing by not being part of a resolution. She keeps her man, her kids, her FOO. DS is then put in a position of losing his FOO or losing DIL & the children, but at least he gets a choice. The ILs lose DS, DIL & the GC and don't get a say in the matter, just because they had the audacity to give birth to a son. They have the most to lose, so they are the ones dancing around trying to please a DIL who really can't (or won't) articulate what they've done wrong and what they need to fix. My take is that she knows she's got the power and she's playing games with it to see who will dance to her tune. If they dance, win! If they don't, double win!! She's rid of them.

You may be right with that statement.  If believe if she was really interested in improving our relationship she would have been there.

[Chrisky]

Herbalescapes - that post was BRILLIANT.  It puts so much into perspective about what we expect from our communications with others (or lack thereof).  I MUST go read that book.  I'm intrigued! 

I need to read that book as well, I'm positive that we communicate very differently which is part of this problem.  But after all we are all adults, why is it that DH & I can get past DIL's different communication skills and she can't?

[Chrisky]

Herbalescapes, how very interesting is the information you shared about "direct" and "indirect" questioning styles!

I have been thinking about this, and about Chrisky's situation.  How DS has expressed that he feels his wife is being disrespected. How her DS said his wife feels she's tried, and Chrisky's musing (to us, I assume, not said aloud to her DS) Tried how? By ignoring us?  And it struck me: well, perhaps, yes. 

Well yes, she is ignoring us in any way she can.  We get mixed messages from her & DS goes along with these messages.  He can be naive at times.  They say,"DS is busy, likes to relax at home on the weekends with family, so call anytime during the week, and come over to see the girls"  Well, we do call, leave a message, and wait, and lo & behold who calls back but DS, saying come over next weekend, I'll be home.   
Then we're critized for not visiting during the week.  Well, I just plain give up.

The thing is Sassy, she is not happy with the situation, and according to DS is the one that keeps telling DS to have a talk with us and sort things out. I believe she hopes we'll say something terrible, and she'll be able to say "see, I told you they don't like me", and/or she wants us to just completely agree with everything she says, never express an opinion about anything.
It just keeps going round and round, like a dog chasing it's tail and never catching it.  (sorry, terrible example). 

I appreciate all your thoughts.  There have been things mentioned that I had not really considered.   

[Doe]

I appreciate the whole message but this part gave me pause:

I would recommend not comparing your situation with the other GPs.

This looks good on paper but I don't see how it can play out in real life unless the person just pretends not to know certain things.  I'm not sure what is the benefit in ignoring a truth.

In my case, noting the difference in how DIL is with her family vs our side provides lots of information to help me sort out how to approach my relationship with her. 

[Pooh]

However busy DS is, you are his relatives and therefore his responsibility.

Maybe think of it as payback that you never had to worry about DS coming home from school pregnant.  Sure, he might have impregnated someone, but that's not the same. 

I'm glad I don't feel this way about my DH and his family, nor he with mine.  They are both our responsibility. 

#2 I'm just going to say you are right, it isn't the same.   It is totally different with an entirely different set of worries, but I assure you, it is just as hard.

[Sassy]

I think sometimes herbalescapes tempers parts of her posts with a bit of levity, or allegory, and all the words are not always meant literally.

This is a link to a NY Times article from the spring called "Don't Call Me, I Won't Call You" http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/20/fashion/20Cultural.html?pagewanted=all

"I remember when I was growing up, the rule was, 'Don't call anyone after 10 p.m.,' " Mr. Adler said. "Now the rule is, 'Don't call anyone. Ever.' "

[Chrisky]

Sassy, I must be getting old.  I still like to phone my friends, to hear their voices.  When having a phone conversation I can hear by their tone of voice, their joy or disappointment with whatever we are talking about.  I'm of the opinion that with all this texting many people can't even write a proper sentence.  This generation does not have any social skills.  It's much easier to text someone, than talk face to face or over the phone. 

[Ruth]

That was a good article Sassy!   I think protocol is changing (changed) nowadays and frankly I'm pretty glad because I have never enjoyed the telephone.  There's entirely too much 'communication' going on in this society in my opinion, and I can't see much good that's come of it.  I've continued to think about your situation Chrisky, and I still can't figure this out.  DIL hasn't been nasty to you as far as i can tell.  If DIL says come by during the week and see the girls, I for one would have galloped over there and maybe phoned a few blocks away, left a message if needed that 'I was dropping by to see the girls with a little treat for them, look forward to seeing you for a few moments Irene, thanks for being so kind to extend the invitation', or something to that effect.  I think maybe you are a very methodical person and perhaps she isn't.  Maybe you're making this harder than it really is.  Please don't feel I'm being insulted, I am also very methodical and like all loose ends tied up, but I know many people don't live that way.  Has she a healthy relationship with FOO, divorce issues etc?

[Chrisky]

I've continued to think about your situation Chrisky, and I still can't figure this out.  DIL hasn't been nasty to you as far as i can tell.  If DIL says come by during the week and see the girls, I for one would have galloped over there and maybe phoned a few blocks away, left a message if needed that 'I was dropping by to see the girls with a little treat for them, look forward to seeing you for a few moments Irene, thanks for being so kind to extend the invitation', or something to that effect.  I think maybe you are a very methodical person and perhaps she isn't.  Maybe you're making this harder than it really is.  Please don't feel I'm being insulted, I am also very methodical and like all loose ends tied up, but I know many people don't live that way.  Has she a healthy relationship with FOO, divorce issues etc?

Her FOO relationship is good.
Ruth you're right, she hasn't been nasty to us at all.  You know, we actually did think of just dropping in as you suggested, but we felt  so uncomfortable doing that because her invitation was preceded with the mention of a phone call first.  But, in retrospect maybe we just should have done it to see what happens.  I don't know if we'd feel comfortable doing that now, or that DIL would even allow it, but if that sort of invitation ever comes up again, we'll just jump on it. 
I am very methodical, but DS isn't, DIL is.  So I believe she expects him to invite us and when he doesn't, or forgets , she doesn't prod him into action. 
Ruth, it makes my head spin trying to figure them out.  But this a.m. DH e-mailed DS about something not related to this and he answered him back quite quickly.  So.....

[Begonia]

But this a.m. DH e-mailed DS about something not related to this and he answered him back quite quickly.  So.....


Chrisky:  This is an important observation.  In my experience my DS and DD do not want to always be talking or interacting about some kind of drama (that can't be solved anyway) or why or why not, even though I may have been barely sleeping because of it. It does not always have to be all sorted out if we can just move forward.  A good guy friend told me one time, when I was going on and on about some slight, to "Drop the hatchet."  That has stuck with me a lot of years.  Your DH and DS are leading the way and this gives good reason to just let the past drop and move on to subjects that do not need explaining or discussion or "talks."   But, I think women can learn important lessons from men, who can fight like crazy shouting and going on and on about some football team, then go golfing as if nothing had ever happened. 

So glad your DH and DS are talking. 

[Begonia]

Just to add an afterthought to my post:  Most support groups are made up of women.  We solve our problems by getting them out there and getting feedback. Generally, men make a decision and move ahead without having a dozen meetings about the color of the living room or buying a new shirt. Trying to find that balance between gender perceptions is always an interesting situation, especially in family dynamics.   

[Belle]

I totally get what you're saying Begonia, it makes sense.  BUT, how many of our DH's would rather "sweep issues under the rug" and pretend they never happened.  DH's whole family is this way, and over the generations most of them have reduced down to a "carte blanche" way of behavior that they believe should always just be "overlooked" with no consequences.  I don't know about you, but for me this doesn't resolve anything and it gives me no reason to move forward.  In DH's family, all this way of thinking has accomplished is creating behavioral monsters....DH included.