Saw Something Heartbreaking Today

[cocobars]

Technorebel, I'm happy you found this site.  There are alot of women her going through the same thing and I know you'll see alot of good advise here.  It doesn't mean you will not still get hurt.  Just that you wont feel so bad anymore, and may actually know you're not alone anymore.

I had a wonderful MIL too, and kept things she gave me for a long time.  I do alot of gardening.  I'll never forget her coming over one day with some marigolds (which I don't like because they remind me of those little yellow weeds that grow in the lawn).  I planted them in front of the house so she saw them every time she came over.  I learned to like those flowers because she was so loving to me and they came from her.  Kind of like your old plastic cross.  She passed away a few years back and I don't have her anymore, but I still remember her every time I see marigolds.  I planted some last year in front of the house.  There was a tree stump there from a large tree that I hollowed out and filled with dirt.  I believe she could see them from where she was.

You keep being good to your GD.  She needs and loves you, and you never know when a weed will turn into a beautiful flower...

[technorebel]

Cocobars,
Thanks so much for your kind words.  I really needed them today.

[2chickiebaby]

Dear Technorebel,
It's awfully hard not to take this personally but maybe she isn't thinking about what she's doing?  I know that when you are young, you often don't think about the things we think about.  Just my thoughts......but I don't blame you for feeling this way.  I'd be hurt too. 

One of my DILs gave me back for my birthday a present I gave to her. What I gave her was beautiful and obviously she didn't like it because for my birthday, she didn't even bother to wrap it back up like it was....it was just laying loose in the box and that's the way she gave it back.  It hurt my feelings but I was determined not to let it keep hurting me. 

It's not worth it to keep this in our head, hearts.  Write us and we'll listen. 

[cremebrulee]

Good Morning Isitme

I hope you and Chickie do not mind if I respond to this, as while I was reading I thought of some things....

thanks for asking.. I think Iââ,¬â,,¢m okay about the counseling feeling a little rough because Iââ,¬â,,¢ve always thought the point of counseling is that it makes you think about things you havenââ,¬â,,¢t thought about before which can sometimes be uncomfortable.  The way I see it, I donââ,¬â,,¢t need to pay a professional to tell me what I want to hear or make me feel better because honestly, thatââ,¬â,,¢s what my family and friends (you ladies included!) do for me. 

Your absolutely right and the painful part is, we humans do not always want to admit wholeheartidly that WE have problems, but we do, every one of us does...it is actually what some mystics/shamens call..."facing your demons"

Well the counselor asked me think about what my power issues are (implying that I have them) and to reflect on my own negativity and how this affects my BF. She really made me feel bad for being the ââ,¬Å"wet blanketââ,¬Â last week when my BF told us how he had ââ,¬Å"confrontedââ,¬Â his mother about her behavior and gotten her to agree to ââ,¬Å"acceptââ,¬Â us.

Personally, I disagree with her...HIS mother has been cruel to YOU!  And while this is a milestone to him, it is not only understandable to me, that you are the wet blanket after all she's done....and he should understand that as well...she has not been a very nice person...and while she is HIS mother...she is not yours...therefore, there is a whole different perspective from your side of the court and should be...it is very difficult to trust someone once they've hurt you, not once, but many times...especially when they say such brutal and unacceptable things.

She said that his motherââ,¬â,,¢s grudging tolerance of me is the best I should hope for but that I should be ecstatic that sheââ,¬â,,¢s been able to reach that stage and I should be giving my BF a HUGE thumbs up for making this breakthrough instead of saying ââ,¬Å"Hmmââ,¬Â¦okayââ,¬Â like I did. 

Wull yeah, she's right in thinking that way...but then again, she is not looking at it from your side...has she forgotten how this woman treated you...?  And again, your BF and Counselor in my way of thinking, and maybe I'm way off base, I'm no counselor, must realize....you have no connection to this woman what so ever, therefore, you are feeling like your being thrown to the wolves and penalized for loving your BF?

I think I agree with this ââ,¬â€œ I should be more supportive and open.

Perhaps you should, but it is so understandable that you are gunshy?  Sheesh?  It's to be expected and I believe this point should be made....If someone picked you up once, and threw you into oncoming traffic, how would you feel about that person?   

But I think sheââ,¬â,,¢s also confirmed for me that despite his confident demeanor, my BF has a lot of insecurities and is really desperate for his parents approval which he will never get

That is probably so, but there are some parents who are simply BAD parents, like my real maternal mother...she ran me down to the ground...all the time...and to this day, she is only nice to me when she wants something...and never once, did she give me credit for anything I've accomplished....so I gave up on her a very very long time ago...someone has to tell your BF he must stop looking for they're approval, b/c he's never going to accomplish that...and someone has to help him see his insecurities and why they're there, which has a great deal to do, with the way his mother raised him...and why should you be expected to take on this burden?  I mean, I know you love him very much...and he's a wonderful man, however, your not yet married and a whole lot of corrossion could surface after your married....believe me, once your married, a whole lot of bad faults in people start to surface.

this confirmation helps me see my BF with a lot more compassion.  I think Iââ,¬â,,¢m going to have to be that source of unconditional love for him and Iââ,¬â,,¢m okay with that ââ,¬â€œ itââ,¬â,,¢s just a little scary because I donââ,¬â,,¢t want to let him down..

Compassion for someone is a very noble commodity a person can have bestowed on them...however, you can't fix him...he must fix himself...and if you develop patience out of this relationship, all the better, however, my son married a woman who had very complex problems and still does...he felt so sorry for her childhood and wants more then anything to MAKE HER HAPPY...but no one can make someone happy if they are not already happy and confident within themselves...I mean, as nice as your BF is, he could be a walking timebomb (meaning depression)....When two people marry, there are a lot of pressures that surface, and some men are not strong souls, they cannot handle the pressures that come with marriage and children.  See, what I'm seeing here, is your expected to fit in, by compromising and giving away who YOU are, and that's not fair or right to do.  Eventually over a long period of time, pent up resentment could reach down and grab your soul.   You've heard of people being unhappy and angry but they don't know why?  Well, now add to all of this, a very dysfunctional MIL, whom your BF, now as your husband, might demand you put up with her...and to even more damaging, may insist your there with her all the time.  These people are emotional vampires...and after your married, she to may get even worse, and slap you down verbally, every chance she gets. 

I realized Iââ,¬â,,¢ve made my BF feel insecure because he doesnââ,¬â,,¢t feel I am as committed him because of his family.

I totally dissagree here...you can't make any one feel what they are not...and no matter what, you are entitled to your own feelings, and if your own personal feelings make him feel insecure, instead of understanding your feelings, well, that is just so wrong!

And I shoudnââ,¬â,,¢t have said anything that made him feel emasculated because he gets enough of that from his mother. 

She, this is where your analyzing, to the point that your trying to be someone you are not, again, compromising your identity for love....why must it all be you and one sided, he is the one with the problem mother and he is the one with insecurity issues...which must be fixed, and you shouldn't be expected to come down to his level.  I mean, just listen to yourself talk, your not only making excuses for him, but also, will help feed his insecurities...and enable him, that is exactly what my son has done, and he's given up everything that made him, him to make this person happy...and she has estranged him from family and friends....

Even the counselor kind of yelled at me and said ââ,¬Å"you have this great guy here and any other woman would snap him up in a second but youââ,¬â,,¢re finding things to complain about.ââ,¬Â  That made me feel insecure because sheââ,¬â,,¢s right

I'm sorry but, this great guy might not be for you...and while any woman would snatch him up....some of us are just not meant to be together...we need to be with someone who is going to enhance our being...not bring us down, and as I mentioned before...while he may be showing only his good side now...he may be just as manipulative as his mother and nasty as her to boot after you get married.  What is up to you, is to look for signs...and I believe in my heart, that he has been more concerned about his feelings, and his mother's feelings over yours....YOU SHOULD BE PRIORITY...his mother should actually be going to counseling with you, if she really cared...

I mean you just started seeing this counselor and she's already blaming you...?  Wrong...she likes him so much, tell her, she should marry him....just kidding, but how does she know what he's going to be like after your married...I'm serioulsy worried about this woman's credentials?

ââ,¬â€œ he could find someone else and it doesnââ,¬â,,¢t help that I know his family has been telling him he SHOULD find someone else who is richer, better, good enough for their family etc. etc. 

People with this kind of attitude who raise children, well quit frankly, how could he help not feel the same way after being conditioned all his life by these dysyfunctional people...and someone who feels like that, would never be happy no matter who they're son married...and it's not your job to be those things...those things darling, you already own...but you were not put on this earth to be the person you are...a very signficant entity...to  be that way just for him...

So maybe thatââ,¬â,,¢s why Iââ,¬â,,¢m finding it hard to let go of my negativity and resentment right now.  Sometimes I think he SHOULD find someone better too but I hate that I feel that way.

to reassure you again....unless she turns around quit dramatically, you may never let go of the negativity, and again I remind you, it could get twice as bad once your married.  I believe everyone here would agree with me...TRUST HAS TO BE EARNED. 

MY DIL used to erase email messages, phone messages not just from me, but from all his friends...family....and she threw beautiful brand new clothes away that I spent a lot of money on for my GD....and by the way, there was nothing wrong with the clothes I was sending...the young girls I work with make 6 figure salaries and we were all going out together buying the very same clothes for our children and my GD....my point is, I could never trust her again, unless she came to me and apologized and reassured me that she was wrong for doing that...and she'd never do that again....

One thing that made me feel terrible is that she suggested I might be the type of person who will always find something to complain about and that I needed to think about why I was always focusing on the negative when viewing my future in-laws and to think about how my actions may seem unfriendly to them. 

See, this comment, I don't get....most people are not as wise as you are.  They fall in love with love, lust, and boom get engaged without really knowing each other...they think they're in love...and by the way, a lot of women think they're in love, b/c they've been conditioned to believe that it is they're sole purpose in life, to find a man who will take care of them, and have babies....society, really needs to change that attitude...we're no longer living in the 1800's.  It should most certainly be a huge consideration on the part of any one who is getting married.  You watch how your mate to be, addresses his/her family...do they talk about them brutally, do they critisize they're family to the point of gossiping and being unreasonable...Your investing your life...your life missy, and it is a heck of an investment and you want to make certain...that it's not going to get worse once you get off the train....yanno...I again disagree with her...how old of a woman is she, and doesn't she even consider the fact that your BF could be putting up one heck of an act?  I'm very sorry, but I feel, while you love him dearly, you have seen many other flags which maybe you haven't even admitted to yourself, otherwise, you wouldn't have insisted counseling.

This REALLY struck a chord with me and is what made me feel like a terrible person. 

My point exactly, already your feeling like a terrible person...your trying to change your whole being...that's wrong...you have every right to own your feelings about this...call it apprehension...

But then when I was thinking about it later, I realized, except for certain things, Iââ,¬â,,¢m NOT usually like this and thatââ,¬â,,¢s what disturbs me so much about this.   Usually I am a pretty easy going and open minded person, and also generally someone who likes to look on the bright side and give people the benefit of the doubt.

Again, walla....you need to be who you are...and you are easy going and open minded, anyone can see that in your postings....don't trade that or allow someone to discredit you...are you as tollerent as others, perhaps not...maybe you are...even more tollerent...but. my point is...you are who you are...so keep it...don't tear yourself up b/c there is a problem with him and his mother...

That being said, there are definitely people who ââ,¬Å"push my buttonsââ,¬Â and elicit this kind of strong negative emotional response from me

That is human nature, things that bother me, may not bother you, and visa versa...human nature, and again, who you specifically are...

I want to commit but I donââ,¬â,,¢t want to be OWNED.

Absolutely, and if you didn't feel owned, again, you wouldn't be apprehensive...there is that little voice inside called intuition, learn to listen to it, as it is usually right...while we are thinking with our hearts...

Iââ,¬â,,¢m afraid Iââ,¬â,,¢m going to be ââ,¬Å"engulfedââ,¬Â by his family but I have so little in common with them, I donââ,¬â,,¢t want to be ââ,¬Å"engulfedââ,¬Â ââ,¬â€œ

I fear that to, and I am not even persaonlly attached....

I just want to have a good relationship.  Iââ,¬â,,¢d like to share some things in my life with them.  But I donââ,¬â,,¢t want them to own me.  And thatââ,¬â,,¢s how I feel they have acted. 

And that is all any of us want, and it's ok to want that....listen, no one can predict the future...but you are right for being apprehensive, as the signs show and I really feel you are justified in feeling negative about this...no one can give you any guarentees...and personally, if this were really right, you wouldn't be questioning it....and I would hope that your counselor would see that....

I think thereââ,¬â,,¢s a lot more there that I need to think about ââ,¬â€œ maybe in terms of the broader context of my life like my childhood and upbringing, dealing with my parentsââ,¬â,,¢ deaths, going to grad school in a very malignant program, doing well in my academic career but being underemployed now and being pretty unhappy with my current jobââ,¬Â¦..

Then that should be your priority...you need to fix this stuff...this is your job...to fix this stuff for yourself...if you don't like your job...well, let me put it this way...jobs should be tollerable, b/c you spend 65% or more of your life at your job...so, make certain that you change...if you don't like your job, right there, that can add stress not only on you, but on your marriage or any relationship...it can have a severe effect on your whole outlook on life.

but I try not to complain about these things.  For example, I try to look on the bright side and say ââ,¬Å"wow, Iââ,¬â,,¢m lucky to have ANY job right nowââ,¬Â etc. etc. 

Yeah, that is a good and healthy way of looking at it...but could you do better, and if you don't and get married, that is something your always going to regret, trust me....


But I think these things have been hard on me too ââ,¬â€œ and maybe thatââ,¬â,,¢s why I sometimes feel insecure and defensive. 

we all feel that way, again, that is human nature....but in your case, your looking at it and actually admitting your own faults...but sometimes I feel like your beating yourself up way to much...only you know the answer to that...which again, is something you have to work for....it is not your job to fix someone else, and if you try, it can really pull you down.....way down.

Sorry for the very long rant.  I think thereââ,¬â,,¢s a lot I still need to think about and Iââ,¬â,,¢m trying really hard to process everything Iââ,¬â,,¢m getting from this counseling.  But writing it out like this makes me feel better and makes things seem clearer to me.

It's ok to process everything, it's ok to admit your faults, it's ok to want to be a better person...but it's not ok to assume that b/c you love someone, it's your job to fix them...you can't...they have to do it themselves...and another thing, we grow until the day we take our last breath...we never stop learning about ourselves...that is our path, our journey, to continue to grow, and as you grow older your priorities change....think about the rest of your life as a painting...you see the absolute finest painting that you feel right now, this minute you must have...but, will you grow tired of it when your older....or, is there something very special about that painting, that you have something in common with, and it will stay with you until the end?  Life is an investment of choices, and if you make the wrong choices, it could mean, for the rest of your life, your dreams are gone. 

What are your dreams?  What are your goals...they can't be all about your BF and his family.  You still need to pursue your very own dreams after your married....becoming one doesn't mean giving up who you are...remember that....if your bf is insecure, once your married, he may resent the fact that you want to further your success and opportunities within your career...your mate should encourage you to excel and succeed....

Wow, going to counseling is hard work!  How have the rest of you who have gone found it?

yes it is, but look at it as a journey into your soul....a new awakening...be fair with yourself....face your own demons, but do not take on someone elses...you can feel sorry for people only so long...then, it's time to move on...if someone drags you down....that is so wrong...if someone says, no you can't go, we have to go together....is your bf able to let you go away with the girls...would he be able to let you work a career that you loved but it entailed travel...and most importantly, if you had kids, would you feel comfortable leaving those children with your MIL for any extended periold of time?  There is so much to consider here....way beyond love and lust...enfactuation....

Hugs
Creme

[cremebrulee]

I also want to add, which I forgot to say...this BF of yours has been growing up in a very corrosive family atmoshere, and it's only common sense that says...he is walking into a relationship bringing into it all these problems....already??  Why should YOU have to put up with his mother all for the sake of love?  Is that really love?  Again...we as human beings owe it to ourselves to gravitate towards relationships, friends and family included, that are going to enhance our being...not pull us down to their level...having things in common, also means, common ground mentally...personally, from where I'm sitting, I see you with someone who is more like you or better, meaning he is enhanced intellectually and is well on his way to a successful career...he has been raised by a family who are close...he has confidence, and so do his mother and father, as they were both career oriented...as well as his brothers and sisters....they are not insecure...and mentally, you and he have much in common...your both compassionate...both, love life, and you don't take to heart to much of what others think of you.  Your both spiritually in sync....you both share the same political and moral views....and he is behind you no matter what you wish to pursue...art classes, going back to college...he tells you, hon, I'm for it...and he would be a great day, due to his confidence...his parents were loving parents who embraced the wisdom that children should be introduced to all aspects of opportunities from little on up...music, socialization, school, maybe even military...but darlin, I see you with someone who is socially secure, as well as more intellectual then you...why?  Because your very wise...and that wisdom has so much room to grow, and a man like I describe will enhance and encourage you to follow your path....conclude your journey...he will want that for you, b/c he understands love is allowing....it encourages the mate to go forward and succeed, and be happy, it doesn't pull them back or down.

I'm sorry, I hope I have not hurt your feelings in any way....my only intent is to speak the truth and help...I could be all wrong....but it's what I feel

[cremebrulee]

It's funny I should see your post.  I've been crying off and on all day about the same thing.  My dil doesn't like anything I've gotten either for them or for the baby.  I drive up to babysit for them 3 days a week so I notice what's in the house and where my gifts have gone. 
Clothes I've gotten for the baby are never worn or simply disappear.  I tried asking her ahead of time "Do you like this outfit?" etc. and she always says no or I don't care for it.   The toys I got for my grandaughter for Christmas are in the garage still in the boxes and bags, a few are just simply gone.  I brought a little rocking pony I bought for baby out of the garage last time I was there, and on my next visit, it was back in the garage. 
I feel like my gifts are somehow not expensive enough or not the right brand or something, but no one will tell me anything.  My sister (who I am on the outs with), her gift to the baby has a prominent place on the dresser and my dil wrote her an efusive thank you on Facebook describing the gift as a treasure. 
My husband says just don't buy them anything, but how can I not want to buy things for my only grandaughter? 
I don't know why I'm up late reading this board when I have to be up at 3 AM to drive up there and it's after midnight now.  I just can't seem to get over the feeling of not being good enough.  I'm very careful to do exactly as she says in regard to feeding the baby, etc., and never to say anything that could be construed as criticism as I know how sensitive new mothers can feel. 
I'm going to stop complaiing now, but just one more thing:  I have a big ugly plastic crucifix on my wall and have had it there for 25 years because it came from my lovely mother-in-law.  But then maybe my dil doesn't think of me as lovely.

Yanno, I can understand the generation gap, and perhaps your DIL not liking a lot of clothes you or I send for our GD's.  I can...but to blatenly thow them out...is so unthinking and cruel...you can always save them and put them on the children around the house...or outside to play, if you don't like them, yanno....

I believe when a DIL does that, she has some serious underlying problems...

as I said, the gals who went shopping with me for clothes, well they make 6 figures and so do they're husbands...I'm talking wealth here....but they also bought the same clothes I was buying....

I know how you feel about wanting to buy things for your GD...but what I did, is, when I found out she was throwing things out...even a 300.00 water slide I sent my GD...well, now I send her only money, in a card to her for her birthday and for Christmas....and it is not nearly what I would have spent on her before.  But here's the thing...I know my DIL is buying her clothes that are so expensive, most parents would not purchase...so, in that, there is no problem...and I've worked to darn hard for my money all my life...my DIL doesn't work, doesn't care, and feels she deserves the best of everyithing, without having to work for it...so, with that kind of attitude, you can't win...therefore, I refuse to go overboard any longer...it's not the gift, it's the thought, and when my GD gets older, perhaps it will change, but I cannot trust my DIL to even give her daughter the packages I send to her....she opens them up first...(how could a mother take away the joy from her child of opening up a package that came in the mail for them)....sheeesh..

[2chickiebaby]

Dear Creme,
Just a little question....I have had to put up with difficult DILs for the sake of a relationship with our sons.  I do it and did it because I love them all.  What I don't understand is: if you want to have a relationship, be it with your future husband's family or a DIL, how do you not include or work through a relationship with his/her family?

I'm really just asking and forgive me if I misunderstood what your post meant.  The inlaws are with us....the last thing I'd ever want to do is to not work through problems with my inlaws because I love my husband and sons too much.

Just wanted to add that one of my friend's husband said to her: "you were never good to my Mother....you know you weren't."   (this couple had been married for years and I know he held that against his wife.  He said that in front of others!!)   

How do we separate the two things?

[cremebrulee]

Dear Creme,
Just a little question....I have had to put up with difficult DILs for the sake of a relationship with our sons.  I do it and did it because I love them all.  What I don't understand is: if you want to have a relationship, be it with your future husband's family or a DIL, how do you not include or work through a relationship with his/her family?

Morning Chickie...well, that depends on the people involved...most of the time, all can be worked out...all families, unfortunately have family politics...if you will....it's normal and when ever you have two people or more involved, there are always disagreements....one usually gives in and walk away and it's forgotten...worked out...done deal....but...then there are the abnormal relationships...ones that can never be worked out, or the ones that can be worked out if you give, give, and give...b/c the other person involved won't.  I have a cousin who used to have a minor problem with her DIL...she kept her mouth shut, and took it and took quite a lot...she told me, she never wanted to jeprodize not having her son or her grand children in her life...but her DIL used to be quit insecure and very moody...almost nasty at times....and it worked...she was able to bite her tongue....

I understand Isitme, feels that she loves her BF dearly, and as I've said, I surely could be way off base...but I don't seeing it being enough for her...she deserves more...she's to intellegent and compassionate to be putting up with this MIL...she wants to work it out...but I don't see how it will ever get better....I really don't.  If this woman wanted things to work out, she wouldn't be acting like this...but she, to me, is to dysfunctional for a mother, and I fear, that Isitme's BF is going to have a lot of problems from that, after they're married...and it's going to stagnate her life...and he will also inflict those problems, without realizing it, on their children...children pick up all they're parents identities...they parrot them....

I don't know if I've answered your question or have touched on what you were looking for here....but I guess what I'm saying is...you can want to work out problems with some people more then life itself...but those people may not want you in they're lives, no matter what you do, or how nice you treat them...and there is nothing you can do about it...you can't force yourself on someone...or make someone like you..but what most of us must understand, no matter how much you dislike someone, you still need to respect them....you walk away, thinking, sheesh, that person is really screwed up....so glad I don't have to be around them more then I am....but, you don't treat them unkindly or mean, b/c they do you...you remain the lady you are...b/c if you don't, and we allow them to bring us down to they're level, we get angry and act out...we regress, we don't progress...and can you think of a time you lost your temper and then later were very angry....it wasn't that you were so angry at the person so much,  you were really more angry b/c you lost your temper and you were angry and embarrassed for doing so...does that make sense?

I'm really just asking and forgive me if I misunderstood what your post meant.  The inlaws are with us....the last thing I'd ever want to do is to not work through problems with my inlaws because I love my husband and sons too much.

yes, but the difference is, your already married...so, it's wise to bite the bullet...Isitme, is not married...and from her posts, I'm not to sure she's really in love with her BF....I think a part of her feels very sorry for him...and feels a great link with him as far as friends go...I mean, you can love friends with all your heart...but mistake that love for the opposite sex as being in love, and really, you have nothing in common....she may also feel committed to him, b/c she's gone this far, and feels like she cannot back out even if she wanted to...she is the only one who really knows what's going on...but she is not married...you are, you made that choice a long time ago, and now need to adhere to it to the utmost capability...as long as it's not always one sided, it does need to be fair...one gives some of the time, then the other gives, it all works out even in the end....but if one person is giving all the time...some people are ok with that...others are not...and it's not healthy for them to do so...but they do, to keep peace....

Personalities are difficult to deal with, and any relationship is hard...girlfriends, cousins...whenever two people come togehter for any length of time, you are bound to have difficulties...the question is, can those two people work it out...sometimes, 2 women together can really really clash....take into consideration a generation gap, not to mention...all else that comes into play....

Does that answer your question, cuz I'm not really sure that I understood your question...forgive me, I can be very dense and deep at times...sometimes ya even gotta draw me pictures?  LOL

Just wanted to add that one of my friend's husband said to her: "you were never good to my Mother....you know you weren't."   (this couple had been married for years and I know he held that against his wife.  He said that in front of others!!)   

How do we separate the two things?

Yup, and let me tell you...all those DIL's out there who are un neccessarily and unfairly contradictive and argumentative and nasty to they're husband's mothers, will someday have dues to pay.  Inside they're husbands souls, well, quite candidly, they known they're wives are being nasty...but they've sold they're souls to keep peace.  Over time, we grow, we evolve and change, and our priorities change....those same husbands, are now older and wiser, they've learned that peace at all costs is no peace at all...they kept this all inside of them for years and allowed they're wives to seperate them from family...they become resentful...angry, angry at themselves, but the anger comes out in resentment towards they're wives, and they will never again, feel the way they used to feel about they're wives....they may stay with them, and tell them they love them, but deep in they're hearts, they know the truth, and there will be a part of them, that will never forgive themselves or they're wives....b/c now they're mother's are gone...forever, and they can never, get that time back...ever...it's gone...and they allowed they're wives to hurt they're mothers very poorly...so yeah, believe me, I have a male friend...he's 61 and left his wife...gave her everything....everything, the house, car, furniture...they're divorced now....she did the very same thing...the children won't talk to her....unless she goes to counseloing...as I've said so many times...what goes around comes around....now, he's retireing in Feb, and going to move to the town where his mother lives to take care of her for the rest of her days...I've very proud of him...he says, "Thank God I still have that chance...but I can't help but grieve for all those years I gave my mother up for that woman". 

[cremebrulee]

I would like to ad something else...for those of you MIL's or DIL's who have ventured into other forums and posted...any forum...

did you ever notice how you were posting about an issue in your mind, you remembered, or thought of, and it had nothing to do with anyone within that forum...those people were furtherist from your mind...but maybe that weekend you were with friends and a subject came up so you posted it...

All of a sudden a few DIL's or MIL's come into that post and say they were so highly insulted by your post...why, why were they so insulted, why did they take it to heart, and become so defensive and angry? 

Why, b/c you touched a nerve...they first felt guilt in your words, b/c they took it personally, what they were reading was themselves....within your words....even though they were the furtherest thing from your mind when you posted that thread...but they were really angry, and hammered you for what you wrote....why....GUILT....b/c they saw themselves in yours words....
and they are not able to see beyond themselves within that moment....they subconsciously reacted to something they were doing...even though you didn't mean them....

You may write a book, or a poem....and mean the complete opposite of how the reader took it....it's b/c they might have very little confidence in themselves....or however they were raised to believe....how many of us, vote democratic or republican b/c our parents did?  Or go to the same church our parents did....same thing, we develop every thing about ourselves, from our parents....and what they saw, we see....and sometimes are unable to see beyond that...

[2chickiebaby]

Yes, thank you, Creme....I just know that some MILs (Mothers) don't really mean what they say when they say it.  We're just going around being ourselves and boom!  We've said something that the other person took the wrong way.

Like Isitme....now, I think her FMIL was horrible when she told her she didn't accept gifts from people.  WHAT?  How insane can you get with that one?  People?  She seems afraid of any closeness for some reason and I don't get it.  Maybe she's afraid she'll be rejected.  This is one or two comments from an obviously scared and insecure woman.  Just my thoughts....

[cremebrulee]

Yes, thank you, Creme....I just know that some MILs (Mothers) don't really mean what they say when they say it.  We're just going around being ourselves and boom!  We've said something that the other person took the wrong way.

Like Isitme....now, I think her FMIL was horrible when she told her she didn't accept gifts from people.  WHAT?  How insane can you get with that one?  People?  She seems afraid of any closeness for some reason and I don't get it.  Maybe she's afraid she'll be rejected.  This is one or two comments from an obviously scared and insecure woman.  Just my thoughts....

yup, I agree, what you have here is a woman, who can't see beyond herself...she so selfishly made that comment that it ingrained in her FDIL's mind...so now how do you handle that?    And yes, Chickie, the woman is probably very afraid of being rejected, she doesn't like herself very much, how could she?  So there is no self confidence...plus, she must be nasty to everyone...when she gets older Chickie, she will have no one, cuz the older you grow, a lot of times, the less tollerance you have...she's growing into a miserable old woman....nasty and contemptable...ya gotta feel sorry for her...and, maybe, just maybe, she was nasty to her husband's mother?  and now, the guilt of it is taking it's toll....she sounds like she was very selfish all her life....

Quit frankly, she is missing a gold mine in Isitme...she is really the looser in all of this....

[Invisible]

I bought things for my GD just to find out later she never received them...my DIL just threw the gifts in the garbage. So my "solution" I do not spend a lot on any items that go home with her. I am not allow to participate in Christmas, Birthdays, Easter, ...etc. so I just send a card with a "fun day" coupon. When my GD visits we are always on the move Circus, horseback riding, roller skating, bike riding, bowling...etc. My rationalization, is giving my GD the gift of time. I don't think anyone else gives her the time of day. (Her mother makes her eat her meals by herself in her room.) Her mother does not play with her, take her to parks.....nothing.

I am not going to worry about the physical gift giving. Especially since I know my gifts end up in the trash.

[2chickiebaby]

Sometimes I feel like giving up

[cremebrulee]

Sometimes I feel like giving up

I know what you mean, I have....not on my son, we have had some really good productive conversations of late, just like ol times....but on DIL, I could care less either way...it for me, has become an endless battle...if there is no reciprocation, after a while you just don't care any more...

I  take what I can get...if it wouldn't be for my son, I'd have no contact with my GD...I was warned years ago, before my GD was born....two people said..."I'm afraid your DIL will use your GD to hurt you".  Didn't want to believe it, but, in all truth, it came to fruition....to me, this isn't a good mother...and, my GD may grow up to be as self imposed and nasty as her Mother...

She storms off and runs away from problems, instead of facing them, resolving them...which proves she can't get along with people unless they agree with her...but the scary thing is...she takes everything as a personal insult against her character....instead of saying, yanno, I did this or that wrong...and I must change that...there is no room for growth, and someday, she will end up being a very lonely angry woman.  Or at least, that is what my son's friends say?  They are all her age....I was told that they are all upset with my son for the way he has allowed her to treat me...so, it's not just me....

They all question her capababilities of possing maturity and compassion....

I was told by my son's extended family, that when they go visit, they cannot stand it more then 3 days....it's a real shame she's so miserable within herself...she doesn't know the word accomodating....

[cremebrulee]

It's funny I should see your post.  I've been crying off and on all day about the same thing.  My dil doesn't like anything I've gotten either for them or for the baby.  I drive up to babysit for them 3 days a week so I notice what's in the house and where my gifts have gone.

My counselor told me, she does this, b/c she wants to be the only one who gives to my GD...it isn't about you really, but yes, I know the pain of this...It really tore my heart out when I found out she was throwing things away....I mean, I didn't even get angry, it was just so sad....that she deprives her daughter of the joy of things....and she your DIL and mine, they are to selfish to have a clue?  What a cryin shame....she is stagnating her own daughters growth, but a narcissist, is not aware of these types of emotions....or do they possesses awareness...it's all about them....