Credit to my DIL

[isitme?]

I think I posted many accounts on other threads - she has said things like I'm not normal and that I don't respect her and don't try hard enough to have a relationship with her.  This was the last time I spoke to her on the phone and she got mad because her son called her and asked her to speak to me and then she started yelling "Do you only talk to me when my son tells you to" and then she hung up on me.  She also says things like I will die because my parents died young.  That I am wasting my life as a college professor because money is the only thing that matters in this world, not doing good by trying to help people and not having satisfaction in life.  She has tried to tell me that she has heard mean gossip about my sister (who she has never met) but I stopped her there.  In short, she is constantly telling me and everyone else that I am not good enough for her family. 

She is also so mean to her own son - she brags about him to the outside world to make herself look good but belittles him to his face.  She tells him that he has wasted his life, that he should be earning more money, that he is no good. When he was growing up, I don't think he was allowed to have friends - they are a clannish family who don't accept outsiders or anyone with a different outlook - no extended family or anything.  When he doesn't do exactly as she says, she cries, has tantrum and tells him she thinks she is going to die or is having a heart attack.  He knows she is emotionally manipulating him but still feels bad and I understand why.  If anyone in my family acted like that I would feel terrible.  But no one in my family is this way.  We may have our fights but we all treat each other with mutual respect and love.  That's what I hoped to see in this family but right now all I see is dysfunction.  No one really talks to each other in this family.  No one tells anyone the truth.  When my BF talks to his brother it is just about cars or movies or how much money his brother is making or how rich his wife is - they are having a baby next month, my BF is going to be an uncle for the first time and he seems totally unconcerned.  Sometimes I think it's just a guy thing but there is a lot of other things I've seen that raise many red flags...  My BF lies to his parents all the time which disappoints me a lot.  In order to avoid an argument, he will make things up like what day he was working, where he has been etc.  He's not a teenager sneaking out of the house anymore - he's 39!!!  He moved into my building a few months ago - not with me, but down the hall.  It took him two months to tell his parents that he moved (only because I insisted) and is scared that one day they will find out it is the same building as me.  He didn't even tell his brother until recently.  Is this family?  I feel like the only way my BF can get along with his mother is to pretend that he is 10 years old again and just sit at home with her and pretend I don't exist.  What kind of mother wants that for her child?

[isitme?]

Just one thing my MIL did to me....fresh on my mind after all these years!!  They were walking, son and mother in the back yard.  They had their arms around each other....I, desperately wanting to belong! wrapped my arm around his waist too, thinking how great it was to be walking with a family.  His arm around her waist and mine around his.

HOLY MOLY!!!  She said, "don't worry, honey, I'm not going to take him away from you!!!"

I was broken hearted!! I didn't say anything at all but I was crushed.

Why did you feel crushed by this?  Is it because you felt rejected by her?  Maybe by saying that she was trying to reassure you?

I know what you mean - since I lost my parents at a young age and most of my family lives abroad, I thought it would be great to feel like part of a family again....but that's not the case sadly 

[2chickiebaby]

I think I posted many accounts on other threads - she has said things like I'm not normal and that I don't respect her and don't try hard enough to have a relationship with her.  This was the last time I spoke to her on the phone and she got mad because her son called her and asked her to speak to me and then she started yelling "Do you only talk to me when my son tells you to" and then she hung up on me.  She also says things like I will die because my parents died young.  That I am wasting my life as a college professor because money is the only thing that matters in this world, not doing good and not having satisfaction in life.  She has tried to tell me that she has heard mean gossip about my sister (who she has never met) but I stopped her there.  In short, she is constantly telling me and everyone else that I am not good enough for her family. 

She is also so mean to her own son - she brags about him to the outside world to make herself look good but belittles him to his face.  She tells him that he has wasted his life, that he should be earning more money, that he is no good. When he doesn't do exactly as she says, she cries, has tantrum and tells him she thinks she is going to die.  He knows she is emotionally manipulating him but still feels bad and I understand why.  If anyone in my family acted like that I would feel terrible.  But no one in my family is this way.  We may have our fights but we all treat each other with mutual respect and love.  That's what I hoped to see in this family but right now all I see is dysfunction.  No one really talks to each other in this family.  No one tells anyone the truth.  When my BF talks to his brother it is just about cars or movies or how much money his brother is making or how rich his wife is - they are having a baby next month, my BF is going to be an uncle for the first time and he seems totally unconcerned.  Sometimes I think it's just a guy thing but there is a lot of other things I've seen that raise many red flags...  My BF lies to his parents all the time which disappoints me a lot.  In order to avoid an argument, he will make things up like what day he was working, where he has been etc.  He's not a teenager sneaking out of the house anymore - he's 39!!!  He moved into my building a few months ago - not with me, but down the hall.  It took him two months to tell his parents that he moved (only because I insisted) and is scared that one day they will find out it is the same building as me.  He didn't even tell his brother until recently.  Is this family?  I feel like the only way my BF can get along with his mother is to pretend that he is 10 years old again and just sit at home with her and pretend I don't exist.  What kind of mother wants that for her child?

_________________________________________________________________________
Oh boy! The dynamics of families! So hard! I know how hard this is for an outsider to understand.  Good Lord, it was for me.  My DH's sister was such a nut that he spent his entire growing up life bringing her home after parties, drunk, so his parents wouldn't get upset.  He devoted his life to this.  He was the perfect son. I guess in all families there is a perfect child...he was it.

I can only relate things that happened to me regarding your situation.  One time I was doing something at a club/event and because his mom did not belong to this club, I didn't invite her to come with me to hear me.

The next day we went over there.  She wouldn't speak to me. I asked her if something was wrong?  She and his sister said, "you know very well what's wrong!"

I didn't.  I had no idea.  I only know now.  She proceeded to rip me up one side and down another.  How dare I not invite them!!!  I was crushed (that's the way I react, crushed).  I ran and got in the car.  I cried and sobbed and sobbed and his sister came outside and washed her car right beside me.  Me sobbing in plain sight. She whistled and sang while she washed it and it seemed like she glared at me too.

My DH got in the car and we drove off.  He asked me if I was sure I couldn't have invited them?  I was crushed that he'd ask me.  They weren't members of this group so I had no reason to invite them and no authority to do it!

Oy...my poor DH...caught in the middle.  His Mother thought she wasn't good enough to be invited to this.  NOT THE TRUTH!!!   I know the reason she felt this way but why me?  Why did she have to do that to me?

I never held that against her and we went on.....it's not worth it.  My DH is a good man and it's not worth it.  She's gone now so it's over.  People are screwballs...they are.  Every one of us is a screwball in our own way.  There's a DIL and Mother out there who are worse than ours!!!!

[2chickiebaby]

She wasn't trying to reassure me.....I know what she meant and it crushed me.  I wanted to belong and she wanted to have her say.  Yes, I felt rejected, totally.  She was going to be family to me. 

[isitme?]

yes, it's hard for the man who gets stuck in the middle but chickie what do you think I should do? Should I just send my BF back to his mother because I don't want to put up with this anymore?  I feel like it would just be worse for him because then he wouldn't have anyone?

That story about your MIL made me sad - obviously you never meant to hurt her feelings but she just wasn't going to give you the chance to explain that.  I think showing your hurt feelings can sometimes work against you with people like this - they want to know that they've hurt you.  They feel good about it.  And by showing them what makes you feel bad, you are just telling them how to do it again.  I'm still working out how to deal with my FMIL and hopefully I'll find some way to do it with tolerance (true respect is no longer an option like I"ve said before) - but no matter what, I will not let her know how hurt I am by her words.  I dont' want to give her that satisfaction.  She has already used it against me.  My BF passed on some things that hurt my feelings and she twisted it around to show how I wasn't a normal family person and how it disrespected her.

[isitme?]

She wasn't trying to reassure me.....I know what she meant and it crushed me.  I wanted to belong and she wanted to have her say.  Yes, I felt rejected, totally.  She was going to be family to me.

That's awful.  Rejection always hurts but especially when you were hoping to have a good relationship and know you did your best.  What I hate is how it makes you question yourself.  I find myself thinking - did I do enough?  did I say the wrong thing?  am I not good enough?  Lately I've just been trying to get a reality check that it's not me.  I hope you were eventually able to do that with your MIL too.  It sounds like you're getting there with your DIL too!

[2chickiebaby]

here's the bottom line.....if your BF is worth keeping, keep him.  If he isn't, don't.  Does that make sense?   It's him who matters...she will be gone oneday.  He will still be there. 

Now, if you keep him, his Mom comes with the package.  She will be who she is and from what I've been through with my DILs, only a real change in your attitude will work.  If you're not able to do that, it won't. 

I'm telling you...this world is full of some real bad characters, mostly good people but some are terrible.  When you find someone who is good, deep down, they are worth a second look.  I don't know what the answer is because you're thinking that he should act the way you think he should.  No one ever does.  If they acted like I think they should act, we'd all be doing great

Only you can know if you love him enough to keep him. Don't be hard on yourself....just let loose and let go of your notions of how people should behave.  They won't change.  It seems like you're feeling like you're not important enough to him.  I think you should know that.....do you feel like you are?

[isitme?]

sometimes I feel like I'm not that important - but sometimes I worry that I'm TOO important - he tells me he doens't feel like he's close to anyone else in his life and that makes me sad.  If I left him, I would still have my family, but I feel like he would just have this "token" family that never really accepts him or knows who he truly is and appreciates him for the good man that he is

I know his mom will come with the package if we stay together - and right now I love him too much to walk away from the relationship.  So I"m trying to figure out how to deal with her.  What parts of my attitude should change... what SHOULDNT I accept and how should I respond to mean and hurtful things?  When she starts yelling at me on the phone, I want to be able to say "I'm sorry you feel this way but if you are going to speak to me like this, I cant' continue this conversation.  Good day madame"..  Is that unreasonable?  Right now my BF just tells me to tell her I respect her and want a relationship and to keep quiet otherwise.....that's what they all do because otherwise all hell breaks loose...

We're going to keep working on this with a counselor.  The counselor has suggested to him that his mother is abusive but I think he's having a hard time accepting that.  This is something I am trying to stay out of because it dones't really involve me - it's about the relationship he has with his family and his mother outside of me.  I'm just a convenient scapegoat for now.....He has a fantasy idea of how his mom should be and how his family is.... but it makes me sad because it's so far from reality that trying to act out the fantasy only makes things worse....

[2chickiebaby]

If the counselor says his Mother is abusive, that's what it is, I guess.  I know how much he wants a family, even if it's not what you think it should be.  I know he would love for you to love her.  It's not for her, it's for him.  I hope he doesn't think you're his savior, though. 

I know how much it hurts to have someone say hurtful things to you.  I've been there.  DO NOT SAY, MADAME!!!!!! OH MY LORD!! 

I guess just listen to the counselor.  What I did with my DIL was to go and not say anything about past hurts.  It was wonderful!!!  Nothing has to be said....things don't really have to be ironed out.  Just let it go and start over.  You don't need to say, "let's start over".  Just start over.

If you call her, just tell her about your day....would that work?  Think of something that happened that day and tell her.  Not right now but at some point.

My Close DIL loves to give me the scoop...she thrives on the scoop in town. I do too so I listen...we have that in common.  Find something in common with her if you can if you choose to stay. 

[Glitterati]

If the counselor says his Mother is abusive, that's what it is, I guess.  I know how much he wants a family, even if it's not what you think it should be.  I know he would love for you to love her.  It's not for her, it's for him.  I hope he doesn't think you're his savior, though.

If isitme's fmil weren't abusive it might be a different story.  Even if you love someone deeply, you should not have to be abused for their sake.  So they can entertain some fantasy that is likely never to happen.  To ask someone to take abuse just because they love you is abusive in and of itself.  To excuse abuse because "that is just the way she is" or "that's my mom, you have to deal with her" is horrible.  It makes the victim accountable for the abusers behavior.

If all that isitme has posted is the gospel...I don't think she should EVER FOR ANY REASON  go near her fmil.   And, certainly, someone that abusive should never be around infants or small children unsupervised.  The way the woman sounds, I wouldn't trust her with a pet.

If isitme marries into this without there being some resolution, she's setting herself up for years and years and years of abuse and trauma.  Her bf has already proven that he won't be supportive of her and expects her to dive under the bus for his abusive mother.  Love isn't worth having to be abused.


***And, yes, everything I've posted in this post can be turned around to apply to the way some dil's treat their mil's.

[2chickiebaby]

Then I guess that's her answer.....

[cremebrulee]

What worries me is that isitme's bf may be abusive and it hasn't reared it's ugly head yet. 

[2chickiebaby]

He might be, Creme....I have no way of knowing.  I only know what I've lived through.  My DIL was very abusive to me and I know it.  If I hadn't gone back in with a new heart, I would have missed out on everything.  I can't live like that anymore.

I'm sure there will be days again when I'm being treated badly but I'm glad I did what I did.  I am easily hurt.  Many times I can't think past the hurt.   

[isitme?]

thanks for the input ladies.  I know that issue keeps on coming up - my BF is in no way abusive to me.  I have even pointed out the whole "abuse by proxy" thing to him when I was upset.  But I think he's so conditioned to his mom's behavior that he just can't see it as abuse and while he acknowledges that her behavior is unacceptable, he is still hoping that she will change.  I want to believe the best for his sake (and hers)....but I think expecting her to change is just going to lead to a lot of disappointment.  Any thoughts on this one?    Is there a way for us to compromise when he seems to be holding out for change in his mom and I want to learn how to distance myself from what I see to be the status quo?  I know a lot of MILs are against the idea that a DIL should ever distance herself from her in-laws - with the assumption being that over time the son and grandchildren would also distance themselves....what do you think in this case?

I'm really glad I am trying to sort this out before we decide to get married and certainly before we have children involved.  Glitterati - you're right, I would be worried about subjecting children to this type of behavior unless they were always supervised.  However listening to some of the MILs cases on this forum have really made me more sensitive to the feelings grandparents have towards their grandchildren.  But I think all of you really love your grandchildren, try to respect your DILs as parents, and are functioning rational adults.  I dont' know if I feel the same way about my FMIL though - I'm not there yet but I'm already worried...

I think cremebrulee you are right to continue to point out that I should be careful of BF in case he too becomes abusive.  I have been on the lookout for this from day one and nothing except these issues with his mother have been red flags.  He is a kind, sweet, generous guy who deserves to be treated better by his family.  If we do end up getting married, I can't wait till he meets my family because I know they will  treat him with the respect and love he should be getting.  And I hope he will feel like he finally has the loving supportive family he's always dreamed about through HIS in-laws... That being said, I appreciate the advice and will continue to think about things - I'm so glad we've started counseling and I'm very thankful for all of you ladies here too.  You all make me think about a lot of things that I might not have otherwise, and also provide a little bit of a reality check for me too.   

[Glitterati]

I would be worried about subjecting children to this type of behavior unless they were always supervised.  However listening to some of the MILs cases on this forum have really made me more sensitive to the feelings grandparents have towards their grandchildren.

If she's abusive...and you've actually had a counselor verify that she is, her feelings in regards to grandchildren DON'T matter--at all.  Those who are abusive to others neither deserve nor should get sympathy.  They should be given a wide berth so as to minimize damage.

She's not the same as say Anna--who while I don't agree with everything she says, seems like a very caring grandmother.