Why do our sons "obey" princess wives?!

[Smilesback@u]

Maya Angelou nails the generation part of MILs and DILs that we have been talking around lately: "The truth is, we make a mistake when we think that generations can be separated. The truth is you need me so that I have shoulders you can stand on, and we need you because you have shoulders somebody else can stand on. We are one."

[Begonia]

Just read through some of the posts in this thread...so many wise posts here!  Something that seems to come across is the ability of those posting to cinch in our belts and work hard for financial success.  Luise's post about having a lot of "things" and then not having them and learning how to live that way said it all.  I have done the same...I could live on dumpster diving if I had to!! 

But my DS and DD are so wasteful.   And my DIL is totally a princess---she shops designer everything for the whole family and throws out more food...if the kids eat one bite of a chicken breast the rest goes in the garbage.  My SIL basically turns over his paycheck to my DD who has had one bankruptcy already. It is very difficult to watch their spending.  I changed my beneficiaries because of this.   

[Pen]

Wise decision, Begonia, but I'm sure you wish it could be different.

What you describe sounds wasteful to me, but to someone else it might be normal. I have a friend who doesn't have her clothes dryer hooked up, she hangs out everything. But the food waste at her house is too much for me! I feel virtuous if I hang out half my laundry, lol, but I can use leftovers a million different ways. My SM thought we were wasteful when we paid for DS's college tuition. Perceptions are funny..

I too know people who spend like crazy after a bankruptcy & foreclosure. It boggles the mind.

[justanoldgrandma]

Maya Angelou nails the generation part of MILs and DILs that we have been talking around lately: "The truth is, we make a mistake when we think that generations can be separated. The truth is you need me so that I have shoulders you can stand on, and we need you because you have shoulders somebody else can stand on. We are one."

This says it all.  If we would only realize that we can be there for each other in countless ways, all the petty things would fall away (speaking for myself here!)  Friends sometimes take the place of family bc family isn't always tolerant and loving enough or available or whatever.  I just know we help our family (our parents and siblings and now the younger generation)  more than we do anyone else and that our youngsters and their wives will be there for us when we need them;  already we have gained priceless joy from experiencing the closeness of gc that just melts our hearts.  Was it Robert Frost who said in a poem, (paraphrasing here):  "family is where you can go and they can't turn you away."

[Begonia]

Pen:  Yes, I do wish things were different but the past is the best indication of the future and if things have not gotten better as far as my DD and DS acknowledging me in the last five years it is doubtful things will change now.  Doesn't mean we don't love each other under the layers of hurt.  Oprah said one day, "Forgiveness is giving up the hope that the past could have been any different." 

(Off topic, please sorry but this just came to me). My mother passed on in 2006.  She kept everyone informed, at peace, and never held grudges (except towards my DIL who never even gave my mom the time of day).  Our family fell apart after she left us.  Nobody has stepped into her grandmotherly role and I think we are all lost without her role as a soothing go-between or a good laugh about our antics.  She was a hero to all of us.  Neither my DD or DS can even go to the town where she lived because it is too painful, they say they miss her too much. 

But my sister and I are different women than my mom: we love to travel, hate to cook.  We do get along great, which is just a blessing since we are 10 years apart.  But we have worked hard at it too, there have been rocky times as expected.  My mother would say, if we were having a tiff, "Oh you girls are both so stubborn."  Then we could laugh and move on. 

MY DD and DS take every word so seriously, there is no joking or moving forward.  So I have to be a good role model for my GC and move my life along. 

Thanks to ALL of you, even those of you who just read and don't post...because we are all strong together. 

[nicelady]

Oh goodness, this thread had me 'thinking allsorts',even brought a smile to my face, this is the similar situation I am going through with my ds,and his gf,[not married yet].
Reading all of these ww & dil thoughts has given me 'food for thought'.
As a parent I've only ever wanted what is 'fair & right', nothing more nor less, to be told I'll give you 1/2 hour here and there,of my time,and now no time,leaves us  feeling 'less than'.
We noted gf ignored ds for hours upon end,if we wanted to spend time together with ds.
Ds has stated gf 'creates',and it's stressfull trying to keep us all happy.Thus why he wants us to leave him alone,so gf is happy, 'fair and right', I can only hope, oneday.

Health issues  this past year didn't help and so painful ds didn't come to visit me in hospital.
For now trying to step away look after myself and dh

[Pen]

There were no warnings in any of the baby books I read that stuff like this could happen after raising a son. It came as quite a shock to me.

[nicelady]

I wonder what we would have done if the baby books told us this,lol.
I understand my son is 'angry', very much with me because he couldn't do as he pleased,we had rules n boundaries, like good parents do,protecting to keep safe etc,and like many mums here I  did all that was necessary,and now I'm at the forefront of his anger.
We have tried every which way, compromising etc,to no avail.
I have hibernated  for far to long, now it's time for me to be proactive, as hard as it is somedays to put one foot in front of the other.
I now receive some spiritual counselling and it has certainly helped me to at least , understand ,I cannot control my ds behaviour ,and his choice ,but I can control my own,albeit the walk is long and slow, but progress is progress no matter how little,one day at a time.
thoughts and prayers with all.

[Pooh]

I think if a book had told us this would have happened, we wouldn't have done anything different.  I would have set the same boundaries, discipline, rules and such.  They would have received the same amount of love.  What does that tell us ladies?  We know we did our jobs because we would have done them the same even if we knew and still made mistakes because we are human.

[Smilesback@u]

My heart aches sometimes thinking of how I *should* be treated and am not as I can read we all have these feelings at times.   I have not lost my
identity by becoming a MIL.  I used to set limits, boundaries on how I wanted to be treated by my sons.  Somewhere along the way, I got stepped
on, and it hurt.  Now, I re-learn to detach so my sons can lead their own lives.  I wish them well and will stay connected in love. 
That is my stance today...I wish them well, detachment with love, not anger.  It is easy to have this saying as a guiding light, and another thing
to walk the talk. 

When we visit my DS/DIL in Thanksgiving, I determined that I will be a help in the kitchen, and not the head chef.  I suggested to son to make
it easy on themselves by buying the *dinner* from Safeway.  Son got mad and said if I didn't want to help with the dinner that's okay (it is an
issue for DIL to cook for DS family).  I told him he was jumping to conclusions as I am happy to help with salad and dessert.  So next step,
I will follow through and put a lot of love into that salad and dessert.  I will not behave as if I am expected to buy and cook the Thanksgiving dinner.

For some reason, it does seem that here is my role as a MIL, setting limits and being happy with my own life, esp when I visit - Did you see
Madagascar?  *Should we tell them...no, just smile and wave (girls)   

[nicelady]

Hi all.
I agree we wouldn't have done it any different ,even if a book,mentioned this,I would have given same rules/boundaries,shown the huge amount of love.
My ds used to love the hugs n cuddles,I did this as I didn't experience this myself as a child, and decided I would be there 100% for my children,no matter what.I vowed to tell n show them as I know for me I missed that terribly.
My ds has at least acknowledged that.
A love for a gf/dil is different to the love of parents, however it can and should  be shared,but some gf/dil I perceive are not happy or willing to share, like I have read if ds has no 'spine' to say, anything, but is made to 'choose', then that's not 'fair or right'.
 

[luise.volta]

"Fair" and "right" often don't have much to do with what many us us are up against. Each situation is different and we have to be careful with generalities.

I think I would give my eldest son less attention, if I had it to do over again, and my younger son more.  Yet it the eldest who hated me and youngest who is my very dear friend. Guess it's just as well I don't have it to do over, come to think of it.

[pam1]

Hi all.
I agree we wouldn't have done it any different ,even if a book,mentioned this,I would have given same rules/boundaries,shown the huge amount of love.
My ds used to love the hugs n cuddles,I did this as I didn't experience this myself as a child, and decided I would be there 100% for my children,no matter what.I vowed to tell n show them as I know for me I missed that terribly.
My ds has at least acknowledged that.
A love for a gf/dil is different to the love of parents, however it can and should  be shared,but some gf/dil I perceive are not happy or willing to share, like I have read if ds has no 'spine' to say, anything, but is made to 'choose', then that's not 'fair or right'.

This is really interesting to me, Nicelady.  I love my FOO, a lot but that has nothing to do with the amount of time I spend with them.  It's always been to me that our love is strong enough to survive
not seeing each other for awhile. 

While in my husbands family it comes across to me that they are lacking in true affection and security in one anothers love.  By pushing for more and more and demanding their expectations be
fulfilled at the drop of the hat, it comes across that my MIL is not sure at all how much her DS or anyone else loves her for that matter.  I think at that point it is more about her than any common
in law relationship.  She's not accepting what is offered, IMO.

[nicelady]

Hi,all.
one thing I tried was to be 'equal' in all aspects of my ds's upbringing,even making sure one didn't have without the other, even down to last $, to be fair.

pam, I understand .
It's difficult to put into words, yes I do feel insecure, I don't think I'm demanding 'more /more', we asked for some fairness,  that  he at least kept in touch,or come for tea once a week,or pop in for 'coffee', but to be told I'll give you 1/2 hour of my time,  now n again,to be 'allocated' a time birthdays/xmas etc, we made compromises time after time, because gf demands he be with her at her foo 24/7, our ds words gf 'hissyfits' if doesn't get own way.

I 'm wondering if I'm not humble enough to accept what is being 'offered'.

There was true affection/security,family/friends even his peers, would say what a good relationship we all had,a girl once stated to me,your ds is always talking about you n his dad, he really loves you, even some of his peers saying they wished they had a good relationship with their mums like he had with me, that was up until this gf saw how we interacted.
I mean talking,laughing, hugs,kiss goodbye,just pleasant interaction, not over the top,however,gf glared at me when son gave me hug goodbye, she didn't like it,that day he also asked for my opinion on something he was wearing, which I had brought for him at xmas, before I could respond, gf, stated, it doesn't matter, I'm your gf, with this I shrugged my shoulders and smiled, after that day our ds, stopped the pleasant interaction, 'fun/hugs laughter',and began ignoring us altogether.
Until it became unbearable, and he left.
We didn't hear from him for apx 3-4months, until I got 'breast cancer',he did send me 'love n hugs', but still didn't visit me in hospital, again that would have been nice, and a way he could have shown his love n support, but,he didn't.He did start to come around again after apx 7 months, to help dh in garden we had laughs, fun etc,it was good.
Gf would txt if he was with us, 'are you enjoying yourself', he replied, no, but he appeared our old ds around us ,even saying he enjoyed us, but had to keep gf happy,and that means being with her & foo 24/7,again ds words.
He did leave gf & foo house for awhile,although still saw gf, to go live with friend ,and we saw him at least 1-2 times week,but last 3-4 months he's moved back into gf & foo home, and we are back to how we were 2 yrs ago,no contact or interaction.

Maybe my expectations are high, what I would have liked is some balance & fairness for both sets parents/family ,not  all one sided as what we have now,and having to accept what is offered,because gf insists.
Yes he does have a good heart,is kind loving, but he doesn't have 'spine' to say anything, because gf ignores him for hours/days on end if he does.

His 1st gf, they would come n go, visit each family, no set times, or limits, a real joy, but sometimes things do not happen according to what we envisage.

I am trying to be as diplomatic as possible.

I have 'issues' with regards to my own childhood upbringing and I daresay there is an element of 'me' in there, which I work on very hard, to not make it 'about me'.
I too am hoping that our love is strong enough to survive this,I'm praying that everyday.

I do not expect to see/speak to my ds 24/7 ,once /twice week would be nice, but that's a wish.
Why do some gf/dil,  not like the mum/son relationship, and call their partners 'mummy's boys', and  in our case insist it's all their way,or the highway.

I have offered to my ds to invite gf over many times, to try and build some foundation of respect for each other, but  he states , [that's when he did communicate], no, you wouldn't get along, she has a rude manner is opinionated,and you would react,mum, because I know you don't tolerate rudeness and disrespect.
He knows me well, but I explained,  I would 'grin bear & tolerate it', for him, just so we could be a part of his life.

I in no way want this to be misconstrued, as sometimes writing doesn't always come across, as we intend, but know this is written with the utmost consideration, without sounding, either judgmental or bitter.

It's just written from a mum who is extremely sad,hurt ,at the moment trying to process every thought, trying to reach an amicable solution.I don't want to fight,argue, enough of that, we have sat with ds many, many times 'talked/explained tried to reason',compromise, but I'm not sure what else I can do to 'mend' the fracture we now have within our family.I didn't think wanting your child to communicate,  & to participate,for reasonable time in family events,ie birthdays,xmas etc, was to much to ask.

maybe you could help me understand,and I am 'missing the point',I'm open to try anything,I'm not closed minded.

peace love hope & prayers. 

[Pooh]

I understand what you are saying nicelady and bravo to you for noticing your own insecurities that are probably playing into it.  I think for us to truly heal, we do have to examine ourselves first.  I can always change things about myself. 

One thing I did stop saying was 'it's not fair'.  As I have matured (cough, cough) I have gained the wisdom that life isn't fair period.  If it was, then everyone would get the same amount of pay, vacation and perks.  I have always worked hard and still struggle at times to afford new tires but yet watch some people take the easy way out of everything, don't work at all and go on lavish vacations 4 times a year.  Fair?  I think not. 

I am all about quality versus quantity.  I guess I am weird but I in no way ever expected either son to come by or call once or twice a week.  That's alot of pressure and they have lives to live.  I had no expectations of a set time frame.  I guess if I had to pick something, a phone call once a month and a visit a couple of times a year?  Would like to see them at some family events if possible which happens maybe 4 times a year?  And I'm flexible on that.  Show up for one and I would be tickled.

Sure, if there are GK's you would hope to see them more, but I would be good with skype, pictures, phone calls with that too.  I really didn't have any expectations of my adult kids being around more than that, because that was what I always thought my job as a Mother was.  To prepare them to live their own lives and just enjoy being on the sidelines.  I wanted to be on the sidelines, not be benched!