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I'm In The Same Boat

Started by baker, August 13, 2011, 04:56:14 PM

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luise.volta

Be kind whenever possible. It is always possible. Dalai Lama

baker

Him having a mental illness has been just a recent revelation for me, (light bulb moment)... but although, things are coming together and behavior is being better understood,  I understand now many things that happened when he was little and growing up.  It  still does not help me in handling or managing the relationship.   I have no control over him to get him into therapy or medication.  If I even mention that to him and encourage him to get help, I know that will permanently end the relationship.    It also does not diminish the fear of him I have, or the hurt that he can inflict on us, although, "if it isnt his fault or isnt my fault and it doesnt make sense, then what?   I still feel helpless, because now I have some information that could help him, and I cant use it.  I want to see my grandchildren, but like you said, this may not be the time, I need to be stronger.  On my time... I like that.. Thanks so much for listening and responding, I did check out the websites,and he definately is sociopathic disorder.  I answered yes to almost every question. 

pam1

(((baker))) mental illness in a family member is very hard.  My MIL has bpd, the best advice I've received so far is this:  If she were holding a stick that she has hit you with several times before with and is *now* threatening you with again, what would you do?  Would you run away, would you hit her back?  The answer for people with mental illness is to take the stick away from them.

As an example my MIL hurts us with gifts and gift giving, very long background on this one.  So our "taking the stick away" is to not accept gifts.  Now we obviously can't make her stop, can't physically stop her going to the store and mailing us stuff or dropping it off.  But for our sake of mind. the gifts go straight to the Salvation Army.  We took her power to hurt us away without banging our heads against a brick wall trying to make her do something.

Limits are a good thing for any relationship but more important with a person who has a disorder.   Have you noticed that the better you treat DS, the worse he treats you?  He is looking for a limit but is not mature enough to impose limits on himself.

"Stop Walking on Eggshells" is a good, good book.  It is mostly written on how to survive a relationship with a person who has bpd but I think a lot of people who have trouble with placing limits on others hurtful behavior can really benefit from it.  I can't recommend it enough.
People throw rocks at things that shine - Taylor Swift

Sassy

QuoteI have no control over him to get him into therapy or medication.  If I even mention that to him and encourage him to get help, I know that will permanently end the relationship.

You are so wise.  This is very true.  The knowledge is all for you.  Knowledge is power.

What enlightenment will help you with, over time, is to really grasp that how he behaves is not your fault.  That what yur dear son says and does is not in your control and never was.  There's nothing you should have, would have, could have done differently to change the outcome.  He is behaving according to his issues, not according to how much you love (or discipline, or anything) you've given him.  That knowledge will help you will come to understand in your heart that the demon he's fighting is not and never was, you or your family.   No matter what he says, no many how many times he may say it's so, it's simply not you.  Eventually, that knowledge will be freeing.  I used to fret, what if I did this, would she have done that?  If I do this, will she be mean or kind?  Eventually, you learn to let go of worrying about things you can't control.  The load is lifted.   You learn to let go of what's not up to you to handle.  The sense of eventual peace (yes, peace!) won't come overnight, but it will come.

In most relationships, and especially parenting relationships, we are so conditioned to accept personal responsibility:  "If the relationship is wrong, we must have done something wrong."  But with enlightenment, you'll find out that tired conditioning is totally inaccurate in certain situations. You will accept that you didn't do anything wrong. It's just the cards that were dealt and that's it.  Not in your control, so whew, you can relax.

You love your son, and it's perfectly okay to loathe his issues.  Love the man, hate the disease.  As you can see here, you are not alone.  Labels or no labels, so many of us have been where you are.  You've been through so much and you deserve to heal from it, too.  Healing takes time and love, and sometimes its two steps forward one back,  but we humans are built with the ability to love and to heal.  Hugs.

Pooh

Excellent post Sassy.

You are definitely right baker.  You should not mention any possible disease or mental issue you think he may have.  If he truly has some mental issues, he more than likely does not recognize it and will deny it.  It will anger him further to think that you think something is wrong with him because he is probably in denial and doesn't realize how he behaves.  If your relationship gets to the point where you can carry on a civil conversation with him without his raging, gently suggesting he speak with someone because he seems so stressed or overburdened would be the better approach.  Telling him you see how hard he trying with everything and that everyone needs someone neutral to talk to every once in a while might be accepted better, but only if he is willing to listen without being mean.  If he will go talk to a therapist to discuss his stress, if he truly has a mental problem it will come out while he is talking.

I would walk a thin line with this one and heed Sassy's advice for now and just know it's not you.
We must let go of the life we have planned, so as to accept the one that is waiting for us. -
Joseph Campbell

Sassy

Pooh there's a word for what you describe, it's called Anosognosia.  It means unawareness of illness.

I saw it written that in perhaps about half of people, or more, who have mental issues, the mind does not allow them to realize they have them.   "People will come up with illogical and even bizarre explanations for symptoms and life circumstances stemming from their illness, along with a compulsion to prove to others that they are not ill, despite negative consequences associated with doing so." -X.Amador

Luise is so right on when she advises not to look for logic in the illogical, not to try to make sense of the nonsensical.



Pooh

That statistic doesn't surprise me.  How many of us know someone that has a drinking problem and they do not think they do?  I bet everyone here knows someone.  I think denial of medical, mental and bad things we do to ourselves is very common and the key to being able to fix it.
We must let go of the life we have planned, so as to accept the one that is waiting for us. -
Joseph Campbell

baker

Wow,  All of this has been so good for me, to have someone other than family to talk about this issue.  I have hurted so long over this and I feel some of it releasing, and perhaps some actually healing can take place.  My relationship with my son, has been one of my biggest regrets and embarrassments in my life, that somehow I really screwed up with him.  ( I jsut didnt know how)

  The idea that perhaps he does have a mental illness has been a OMGosh moment,  how come I didnt see it?  I know it doesnt matter, but, I am really feeling like, I need to create some boundaries.  I am not ashamed about him anymore.  and I do notice how the nicer I am the meaner he is to us, and that is why, I need to be a little stronger before I make any phone calls to him about anything. So that I can take the stick away...  The grand kids will grow up, and hopefully, will be able to discuss stuff with us someday.  I feel in my heart that our beautiful grand daugther will come and want to know us... in the future.   Thank you so much everyone.  my journey isnt over but with all of you, I know I can make it now.  Hugs..   

Ruth

Luise I decided to copy and paste the response you wrote to the sad situation, I thought it was so profound and I want to re=read it many times.  I am deeply sorry Baker for the anguish you are feeling with having to live with such a disappointment.   All of us here have similar war stories, but I think that the grandparents have the most heartwrenching time of it.   As horrendous as it is having to accept that your child has cut you off, there is no way to express the pain and frustration as being cut off from your grandchildren, I think there is a hot place in hades for people who perpetrate this action without a colossal good reason.  The children being deprived of a willing and loving G/P is just evil.  I am pulling for a good resolution to this for you. 

Ruth

Quote from: elsieshaye on August 17, 2011, 07:06:11 AM
I do think my son has absorbed his father's disdain for women to some extent - disdain for anyone he sees as weaker than he is, actually, male or female. 

This is my situation also, elsiehaye, the rift began when my DS was 2 yrs of age.  There was never a time in his life that he did not treat me with what ran the gamut between apathy and contempt.  He mirrored his father's attitudes and it stuck like glue.

CG, my heart bleeds for you, I am so sorry about the dashing of your hopes to build a relationship actively with your two G/C.  Keep your chin up and know that there is always a tomorrow.

Ruth

sorry I think I made a mistake on that last post, I didn't know how this 'quote' feature works, the first paragraph is quote from elsy, and the last is my take on it.   sorry folks

baker

Its been a couple of weeks since I posted.  I took my sisters advice and waited, then called him, every week, once a week, for the last two weeks,  I have even facebooked his wife... but he is still not picking up the phone and she returned the emails.  I have been praying that eventually there will be a door opened somewhere, some time, but his wife is caught up in this craziness, and I am actually not sure that she isnt alot like him, anyways.  But, I am going to keep praying that just one time, he picks up the phone.   Right now, my life is so busy, with so many crisis' at work, that it is hard to concentrate on much else.  It however, has been a wonderful distraction this week as my daughters three little ones have come to spend the week with us.  My girls are so wonderful, they have changed thier schedules, rearranged thier activities, so that we could spend some time together with them and the grandkids we do have a realtionship with, especially before school starts.  But there will never be a day go by that I dont think of the other three grandkids that are being told lies about me and thier grandfather.  It actually just sickens me... but I am going to take some ideas from this site and use them to prove to those children who will grow up someday, that we loved them too.    I will keep in touch.. Blessings.   

Scoop

2 things:

Baker - you have to stop calling.  From their end, I bet you a dollar they think of it as harassment.  I think you need to take another step back from this, because you're banging your head against a brick wall, hoping it'll turn into a window. 

On mental illness .... what organ do you use to self-diagnose problems with your body?  Your brain.  What if the problem is with your brain?  You can't expect someone to use an organ that's not functioning normally to diagnose their problems.  He'll either come to it, through the help of people he trusts (his DW, maybe his Dr), or he won't. 

Pooh

Thanks for the update baker, been wondering about you.  I'm with Scoop, stop calling.  You have opened the door and it's time to leave it in their hands.  They now have assurance that you want to talk to them by your calls and facebook message, so it's all up to them.  Step back and concentrate on your work stuff as that it probably enough on your plate right now. 
We must let go of the life we have planned, so as to accept the one that is waiting for us. -
Joseph Campbell

baker

Thanks,  I am sure glad I posted today.  I guess I just thought, that if my sister said, he would take a call, he would take a call.  But after two tries, its probably not going to happen.  I miss him so much, I guess calling, even without him picking up, gave me some sense of connection with him.   I appreciate the advice and will quit calling him.  I  so thank you for your help,  I know that I am not seeing, hearing or feeling correctly about this, because in my mind, it just doesnt make any sense at all.  I am going to have to learn to live in the "unknown" of the situation, and enjoy what I do have.:)