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I'm In The Same Boat

Started by baker, August 13, 2011, 04:56:14 PM

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baker

Thanks, since this was a recent revelation to me, I am pondering it and thinking back to his many rages and issues over the yeas,  I never saw any of it when he was younger,  but as he went into his teen age years, we saw alot of anger, hitting, breaking things, and throwing things.   I have been thinking alot about the therapists comment and think that maybe it will help me to let it go a little easier.  But he has burnt so many bridges with his sisters.... I just dont know.  Thanks for the info on the web site for grandkids.   He isnt under any treatment that I know of... Thanks for your support...

Canuck Grannie

I am so glad I found this site tonight.  I'll tell my story later on, but just know I've been played with like a yo-yo for the past ten years and have had enough.  I've spent the last two days aching and sobbing and wishing I could just forget I ever had my grown son and had run off to Paris when I was 18 instead! 

The wisdom and experience I see here has already helped me to get back into focus.  I've been denied access to my son and his two children for ten years now but the door was opened in July.  I met them - laughed with them - enjoyed meeting them (they are 9 and 11) - for a blissful 20 minutes.  We made plans for a get-together in August.  Their eyes sparkled at the prospect.

Now my son has slammed the door again over a very minor misunderstanding that he said nothing about in July, and the children will once again not be allowed to see me.  I ache for them as much as I ache for myself.  How did my kind and caring son become such an uncaring adult?  Is this our "brave new world"?  If so - where can I get off?

I'll be back.  Maybe next time with encouragement for a fellow sufferer!

Pen

Canuck Grannie, welcome to the site. I'm glad you found us, but I'm sorry you've gone through such pain and sorrow. As you've already discovered this site is very helpful and full of wisdom, support, & understanding. Please keep posting & reading!

If you haven't already done so, please take a moment to read our Forum Agreement under Open Me First on the home page. Your post is fine; we just like everyone to understand the forum policies.
Respect ... is appreciation of the separateness of the other person, of the ways in which he or she is unique.
-- Annie Gottlieb

Pooh

Welcome Canuck!  I'm glad you found us.  Here, you will find encouragement, advice and most of all, people that understand.  Come back when you can and share more with us.
We must let go of the life we have planned, so as to accept the one that is waiting for us. -
Joseph Campbell

luise.volta

You hit the nail on the head, CG...when you said that you would be back to help others. That's what makes this community tick. Thank you!
Be kind whenever possible. It is always possible. Dalai Lama

sesamejane

Is there a possibility that your son may be drinking or using drugs?  Substance abuse can look like mental illness, and sound like it too.

Again I am dumbfounded with the wisdom in these posts. Thank you ladies.

Wondering if there has been a discussion about gender?  My sister and I were talking about this and wondering if there was something about being a mother, a woman, that perhaps we are devalued.  Any thoughts ?

luise.volta

My guess is that we were the ones who were "there" and had to do the disciplining. Easy targets...
Be kind whenever possible. It is always possible. Dalai Lama

elsieshaye

I do think my son has absorbed his father's disdain for women to some extent - disdain for anyone he sees as weaker than he is, actually, male or female.  We had a talk about that this past week.  He still thinks that any emotion is a sign of weakness, and thinks that people are "irrational" if they don't think exactly the way he does.

He also tends to loom over me and get in my personal space when we have a disagreement.  Not on purpose, and backs off when it's pointed out to him, but it definitely reminds me of his father's confrontational style.  DS is -not- happy about acting like his father.  I didn't actually tell him he was acting like the X (them's fighting words in his mind), but just pointed out the behaviors when we were both calm.  He turned 8 shades of pale, got very quiet, and then very honest for the first time in a long time. 

I also think that I am a "safe" target.  He knows that I will always forgive him, always be in contact, always be there when he's ready to talk - that's not true of his father at all, and I have noticed that he works out a lot of his anger at his father on me.
This too shall pass.  All is well.

baker

Interesting comments, yes my son, has in the past trouble with alcoholism, however, he has been angry since little.  I can remember, broken windows, holes in the walls, and damaged vehicles because of his anger.  Many trips to the emergency ward, when he would hit the wall with his fist and hurt himself.  We actually put up a punching bag in the basement that he would go and punch at when he felt a rage coming on... it saved on the walls of our new house.  While he was little, from 1-15 could not eat in a resturant with him, becuase he would get 'upset' over something, a waitress or the wrong food...ect...  as I look back, it has been evident that there are some mental issues,  I guess as his mom, i just didnt notice it.  But the reality is that we still have to live and manage his life if we want him to be a part of ours.  His wife, I am sure his wife, has been verbally abused, much like we have.  I am not sure if he has ever hit her... someone once said that wonderful parents can have terrible kids, as well as terrible parents can have wonderful children...  I am going to try to call him tonight, so to see the grandkids,  wish me luch...

Sassy

Baker I too think something is wrong with your son, that comes from within him and not anything that was done to him.  I am not a doctor or anything remotely like that, but the word disorders (just for example, bipolar, paranoid, borderline, antisocial, narcissistic) came to my layperson mind.   I have first hand understand that when untreated, disorders might be just as bad for the people who love those afflicted with them, as they are for those who have them.  The relationship with someone who's disordered is often that of "Blamer" and "Target". The blamer is convinced the target (parent, spouse, child, sibling, friend; each or all of the above) is responsible for their bad feelings.  The more convincing the Blamers is at blaming, the more horrible and guilt ridden the Target will feel.

I understand it's hard to think about the past, without blaming yourself.  I read you peel back layers of your memory and I can only think how brave you are to do this.  It went from, he wasn't so hostile until he was a teenager, to, from age 1-15 he couldn't dine in public because his anger might erupt.

Please understand I am not attempting to "diagnose" your son in any way. I certainly am not, and no one who's never met him can be qualified to do this.  But there are patterns of behavior you mention here that are universal signs of: It Is So Not Your Fault.   I am only sharing my observations with you in an attempt to give you relief and comfort.  I will put some links on another post that I found comforting and you might, too. Just the understanding that some people's mind literally works so much differently than what we're used to, was one of the greatest sources of relief for me in my own experience loving someone who's probably disordered.

Sassy

This link is not to a medical or clinical website.  It is not about how to treat illnesses or conditions.   It is a website for families and friends who love someone who appears to be suffering from mental conditions, and want understanding and insight for themselves when coping with their loved one.   "Out of the FOG."  FOG is the acronym for "Fear, Obligation, Guilt."  We often feel like we're in a FOG of those feelings when in a relationship with them.  Sound familiar?

http://outofthefog.net/
http://outofthefog.net/Relationships/Parenting.html
http://www.outofthefog.net/CommonBehaviors/Top100Traits.html

A Lightbulb Moment
http://www.outofthefog.net/CommonNonBehaviors/LightBulbMoment.html

Love to you and your husband.

baker

Thanks, Honestly, I think he may have some mental issues too... thats horrible to say about my son.  I am the target, and I dont know if I want to take another bullet.   I have spent alot of time thinking this week, and this website is helping me alot to sort out alot.  I am sitting here with the phone in  my hand. My sister, spoke to my son last week, and he said that I could see the grands, with some "parameters", and I was almost ready to call him, but I realized that 1.  i dont know what to say to him anymore, 2. I am afraid that this is just going to open the door to him hurting me and his dad again.  3.  that I am somehow going to have to apologize for my reaction to his horrible behavior, just to be able to see my grandkids, who I suspect, I wont be able to see anyways.   Does that make sense....  I think I just want to let him go..... it hurts less, and I know I am not going to be able to live up to his expectations.. anyways...  I have forgiven him,but I dont trust him.   I just cant bring myself to calling him...he probably wont pick it up anyways..

luise.volta

None of it makes sense. Please let go of any attempt to make sense of it. Focus on your own survival. Sending love...
Be kind whenever possible. It is always possible. Dalai Lama

baker

Your right, none of it makes sense... my own survival right now, includes not feeling bad about something I didnt do.  I put the phone down, at least for today.  Thanks for your words of wisdom.. 

Sassy

Oh baker, I know that FOG you are in.  Its so confusing and, well, foggy. That broken record skipping on What to do, What to do.

I want to tell you something and I hope you eventually absorb this, because I believe it to be the truth:  Mental issues are nothing to be ashamed of.  It is no more horrible to say you suspect as such about your son, than it is to say you suspect he may have a broken leg or a clogged artery.  It is what it is and that's it.  There is no shame.  Recogizing the possibility is a fortunate thing for you (the lightbulb moment).  I understand in the past there was great stigma on cancer, as if having a cancer was a sign something was bad about the person.  Yes, there is a lot of misunderstanding and a broader cultural  ignorance about mental issues that can appear to give it a "stigma" but that is imposed from the outside.  As more and more people identify and cope with it, and talk about it, that is and will continue to lessen.  Just as it has with cancer.  It's no one's fault.  We cope and we move on.

Most of all, it is not your fault.  You don't have to call anyone or do anything at all, if you don't want to.  Maybe it's best to do it at a time when you and your husband feel stronger and more prepared for the challenges of interacting with him. On your schedule.

Whatever happens and whatever you choose to do, know you will be okay.  You will be okay.