March 29, 2024, 04:52:14 AM

News:

"Welcome to WiseWomenUnite.com -- When adult children marry and leave home, life can sometimes get more complex instead of simpler.  Being a mother-in-law or daughter-in-law can be tough.  How do we extend love and support to our mothers-in-law, adult children, daughters-in-law, sons-in-law, and grandchildren without interfering?  What do we do when there are communication problems?  How can we ask for help when we need it without being a burden?  And how do our family members feel about these issues?  We invite you to join our free forum, read some posts... and when you're ready...share your challenges and wisdom."


Not lurking anymore

Started by Lajone, July 20, 2011, 03:51:10 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

TheChoiceIsYours

Lajone, as I read your posts, it seems there might be a control issue going on, in regards to your MIL, and that now she feels as though she's lost control...to you, and that now make you her nemesis in her eyes. I say this because of the cleaning your home thing you've mentioned, the church thing, and also because of the panty thing.

Your MIL might also have become embarassed when you spoke up to her about the panty thing, and that could be why she stopped trying with you at that time. Sometimes embarassment is covered up by anger.

As for the question on would I be honest with you (as a MIL) about what is bothering me? Absolutely. I mean, if things are already stressed-out, sometimes it's good to just clear the air and move on from there. But then again, I'm me and am basing this solely on my own perspective.

BTW, you seem to me like a dream DIL! You have been honestly trying your best with your MIL as far as I can see. But just like with anyone else in this world, we simply don't get along with everyone...as much as it hurts sometimes and wish it weren't the case.

Best of Luck to you Lajone, and I sincerely hope that in time, all this will work itself out for the best.





Pen

Quote from: Lajone on July 21, 2011, 04:59:33 PM
And on another note...why is it that we DIL's feel like nothing we ever do is good enough when our Mil's do things like clean our homes, rearrange our pantries, cook for us, etc. Whenever my FMIL used to come over the first thing she did was start cleaning my home and it infuriated me because it made me feel like I wasn't doing a good enough job. This is what I mean when I say we are highly sensitive to one another...she probably thought she was doing something nice for me and was trying to be kind and all I could take it as was an insult. Some wise women said that it was in insecurity issue with DIL's and I agree. But it isn't an insecurity we have in life, it is more of an insecurity specifically with our MIL's. I am extremely secure knowing that I provide a clean, comfortable home for me and DF and I am a great cook. But somehow she makes me feel like I'm not and I know that it wasn't her intention to make me feel that way. Maybe we DIL's want so badly to be accepted by these women that we become insecure when around them. I guess I should just speak for myself lol! I know that all of my secure feelings go right out the door whenever she says anything...this is not fair to her and now that I have been reading the things you ladies have said, I understand that she has a right to say things and she might not always be trying to put me down when she does. How can I stop being so dang sensitive if she won't give me a chance to stop being sensitive? She will never come to my house anymore so I don't have the opportunity to show her that I am willing to change and willing to see her side of things.

I imagine you feel a lot like I do when my DIL comes to my home and criticizes my childrearing, my furniture & appliances, my location, my career, my education, my choice of vacation spots, my clothes, my favorite TV shows, my housekeeping, my cooking, etc. etc. (To be fair, lately she's backed off somewhat & seems to be really trying to tolerate us.)
Respect ... is appreciation of the separateness of the other person, of the ways in which he or she is unique.
-- Annie Gottlieb

Rose799

Quote from: Pen on July 21, 2011, 06:00:03 PM
I imagine you feel a lot like I do when my DIL comes to my home and criticizes my childrearing, my furniture & appliances, my location, my career, my education, my choice of vacation spots, my clothes, my favorite TV shows, my housekeeping, my cooking, etc. etc. (To be fair, lately she's backed off somewhat & seems to be really trying to tolerate us.)

I had a close friend who spent time twice a year with her ac/gc in another state.  She never wanted to be treated as a guest, but rather, as part of the family, which meant helping with daily chores.  She felt hurt when dil didn't want her help.  She was the kindest person I've ever known.  Maybe your dil would like to help out with some chores, Pen?  ::)

Pen

Well you know, she offers to help w/food prep and clean up, and although I am afraid she'll find more to criticize if she opens cupboards and drawers (whoa, feel vulnerable much?), I do appreciate it and often take her up on her kind offers so she'll feel more like family and less like an aquaintance.

Respect ... is appreciation of the separateness of the other person, of the ways in which he or she is unique.
-- Annie Gottlieb

justus

Your MIL sounds a lot like a woman I work with. We got along great until she moved to another position and I moved into her old one, then all of a sudden it was painful for her to be in my presence. It was confusing and hurtful. She would come into my area, talk to the other person that was there, but not even acknowledge my presence, or if she was talking to someone, she would stop talking when I came near as if she was talking about me, which she most often wasn't, or as if she didn't want me to hear what she was saying.

Another co-worker explained to me that "women of a certain age" (she was in her 50s) decide they are going to take offense to someone, then find a reason to be offended even if that reason is petty. After that, they are justified in treating the person badly and they hold a grudge for years. This co-worker assured me that the reason the other person was treating me badly was very petty.

If she had to actually talk to me about work things, and it was sooo obviously painful for her to do so, she did it in such way as to make me feel like an idiot. After about 6 months of this, I got angry and snapped back and she backed off for a bit. Then it started again, and I snapped back again. Then I got tired of the whole thing. If she wasn't grown up enough to talk to me about what was bothering her, then I wasn't going to let her ruin my day. I was warned that actually talking to her about it would be a huge mistake. I decided to mirror how she treated me. I was unfailingly polite, unlike her, but if she ignored me, I ignored her, if she spoke to me, I would respond in kind. Even if how she was treating me bothered me, I didn't let her see it. I gave her nothing to complain about, and not one ounce of the satisfaction of having any sort of impact on my mood. Eventually it stopped bothering me because why should I care what a person like that thinks of me?

Three years later and she just started talking to me decently last week. After comparing notes with other people in the office, we realized she needs someone to hate. It was someone else before me, and she started treating that person decently only after I became her scapegoat. Now it is someone else' turn. I plan on treating her in the same way. I will be unfailingly polite, but I won't be friendly. I don't trust her.

I suggest you take the tact. Mirror your MIL's treatment of you. Be unfailingly polite and give her nothing to complain about. Talk to her when she talks to you and ignore her when she ignores you and don't let her moodiness impact your emotional well-being.

I know plenty of people who hate 14 year olds. Sometimes it is because the child reminds them of someone who they hated or who treated them badly in High School, other times it is jealousy, and other times it is because adolescents in general are just a pain in the behind. Your MIL probably doesn't know why herself so asking her won't do much good. It doesn't really matter, because how can you change who you are? If she has a problem with you, she has the responsibility to talk it out with you and I don't think she can, I don't think she knows how. It doesn't sound like she has very healthy coping mechanisms. To shut down like that is just childish. And I think it would help you to stop seeing her as someone who has a lot of power in this situation, because the only power she has is the power you give her.

I think most MILs don't really understand the impact they have on DILs. Most DILs just want to be accepted into the family (there are some glaring examples of just the opposite who are written about here) and are willing to do whatever it takes to be accepted. When an MIL is critical, it carries more weight than it should for the DIL whose ego is a bit wrapped up in becoming a good wife. The MIL is just human and doesn't get that the DIL just needs her support and acceptance. She is dealing with her own demons, which is realizing she is no longer the center of her DS' familial world. The DIL's world is expanding while the MIL's world is shrinking. The DIL gains another purpose while the MIL loses purpose.  Of course this doesn't apply in all situations. Sometimes one or both don't have good coping mechanisms, or are unwilling to change and grow, or are diagnosable. There are so many ways it can go wrong.

Pooh

Would I like for my DIL to call and say that?  Absolutely!  Like TCIY's post though, I am that type of person.  I would love if she did that and was truly willing to hear it.  I would also give her the same courtesy and hear her grieviences. 

My 1st MIL used to do the same thing to me when she came over, except she was very mouth about why she was doing it...because I didn't clean well enough, cook well enough, bath the kids well enough, wash clothes well enough...and on and on.  It wasn't me feeling like she was doing things to make me feel bad, she told me all the time.

I will say that we have talked about what is "normal" to some is not "normal" to others.  I was raised and like to pitch in when I go anywhere.  I wouldn't just take over, but I would say "Let me clean up, etc."  Not because I think I could do it better, but because I truly like to be a helpful houseguest.  I also know some people feel if they are a quest, they shouldn't help.  Nothing wrong with that either...just different opinions.  So I guess the answer is in what spirit is she doing this?
We must let go of the life we have planned, so as to accept the one that is waiting for us. -
Joseph Campbell

Sassy

Lajone you have a lot of really good ideas.  I hope you stay around WWU a while.  I think its a great place to gain understanding about what different women are going through in love and family.

I have some thoughts and wanted to post again based on what I just read, Rose and Pen's posts and also just watched, the amazing Brene Brown video on Vulnerability that Luise posted. The video was about human connections and how Vulnerability helps forge our connections and how Shame gets in the way of them.

Lajone I don't think you did anything wrong. I think you're a direct speaker and say what's on your mind.  You seem confident, although I don't know you.  Maybe your confidence and self-assuredness, even at 14, was just different than how MIL lives. I know you're here because you want to know how to make a connection with your MIL.  I am speaking from the heart.

The word comfort, comes up with FMIL a lot.  I'm thinking about what Rose said, about knowing someone who wanted to be comfortable and wanted to feel like a member of the family, by being treated like a member of the "household," not as a "guest" in the house.   Even if MIL wasn't comfortable around you as a teenager, she did spend the night at some point as his fiancee.   Maybe MIL feels like she let herself be comfortable enough in your and FDH's home, that she could make herself at home.   To wear what she wanted when she was hot. You invited her, she felt wanted, like a member of the "household".  (Also explains the cleaning, wanting to contribute).  Maybe she thought after all it's "family" and it's just before bed and so pains for modesty weren't needed, and she felt...comfortable.

Perhaps she didn't think anything of it all, didn't realize how much showed. She probably didn't think her body, at least to her son or the girl 20 years younger than her, could make someone uncomfortable.   She was hot, and perhaps cranky the heat was too high or the ac too low or not on.  She's feeling comfy ... then without warning (to her) gets told she's weird and that she should have realized she needs to cover up. Shame gets in the way of connections.   Shame is a very personal unpleasant self blaming, self chastising feeling. Ashamed of her body.   Ashamed at herself for allowing herself to feel so comfortable in your home she could wear panties.  How can one defend against offending someone with your body without making oneself even more vulnerable? A semi-medical reason.   And if she felt deep shame, that was probably so uncomfortable she thought, never again.  She will not make herself vulnerable.

Brene Brown notes the sad thing about not being vulnerable, and trying to make yourself numb to emotional pain, is you can't feel the joy either. Again, not that you did anything wrong when dealing with this. Because even the etiquette books don't have how to handle that. I am not blaming you, and I want that to be clear.  This a mere guess from someone who never met either of you, guessing one possible way how MIL may have experienced it.  Perhaps you can use it in your quest in empathy and understanding for your MIL.



Amy Fisher is on Dr Drew's show this week and she shuts out in group when confronted.  This is junk tv and I don't know you much less your in laws, but twice in one day I came across this shutting out or shuttng down.  So like the other video, it's coming to mind and might be worth mentioning?   This might just be my head mixing an image of your MIL and Amy Fisher, but I picture it almost catatonic? I don't know if its just a way to stay calm or if she checks out.     Dr Drew explains to the group the shut out is disassociating. A learned response to stress, ususally formed in response to childhood trauma. Shutting down is how a child will survive a situation they are not equipped to handle.  When they grow up, some people might still do that as a response to stress or danger. 

Since you've observed her do this with everybody, at least it's not personal against you.  In any case, I would not confront MIL.  She doesn't like it.  Don't bring up issues, if she doesn't want to talk about them she won't.  That's who she is.  Work around that.  I like your idea invite her to dinner.  If she doesn't want to come over, maybe a neutral ground out somewhere.  A movie (not a  lot of talking).   Follow etiquette :-) If she says no, don't ask why not.  Tell her sorry she can't make it, and let her know you'll invite her again soon, next time you're defrosting some steaks.   Keep trying every few weeks.  Keep being very polite and nonconfrontational about it. 

pam1

Lots of good advice here! 

I wonder...even though the tshirt and underwear ensemble is uncomfortable for you, just how uncomfortable?  Is it a hill to die on for you?  Just curious.  Also, would have turning down the a/c may have helped her?  You would have to dress warmer but it might avoid the conversation lol.

I do realize her choice of jammies would make many people uncomfortable.  It wouldn't have bothered me personally, as long as she was alright.  I don't know, it's not much different than a bathing suit. 

What I'm trying to say and taking forever to get out, is that perhaps there is just a difference between how you and she feel about bodies.  IMO, it's a common difference too.  I tend to think as long as she is not inappropriate with it and not forcing you to join her style of dress, then perhaps it is something to file away and know that this is how she is.  If she spends the night, this is what she might wear etc. 
People throw rocks at things that shine - Taylor Swift

Pooh

I think Pam's got a good point.  I remember a girlfriend of mine walking around her house one day, while we were getting ready in her bra and panties.  It didn't bother me, as we had been friends for years, but I couldn't believe she would walk around like that in front of her teenage boys that were on the couch.  I always put a robe or something over myself before going out in front of my Sons, unless I had on full fledge pj's.  To her it was normal...to me it wasn't.  I'm sure she probably thought I was self-concious for putting a robe on.  She was always more outgoing with her body in clothes anyway.  Lower cut blouses and such, so it truly could be that MIL just doesn't see anything wrong with it.  Like Sassy, I'm not excusing her behavior just trying to see where she could have been coming from.
We must let go of the life we have planned, so as to accept the one that is waiting for us. -
Joseph Campbell

RedRose

Lajone...I would NOT like to discuss the way I was feeling over the phone or in person. I am not good with confrontations, they upset me and have the potential of making matters worse. Confrontations sometimes bring out the worse in people and something may be said that was never meant to be said because emotions are high. How you are feeling today about a situation may change tomorrow, next week, or in a couple months.

I am the type of person that let things settle and watch things get better. They do...most of the time.

Pen

IMO, a lot of the behavior we think is weird or unacceptable comes from people we do not like in the first place. Which comes first, disliking the person or their behavior? Chicken or egg?

Why does my voice irritate my DIL yet soothe my DD? Why do my friends enjoy our casual style of entertaining/our home but DIL cannot? Yet she can accept her extended FOO's less than luxurious hospitality?

Would anyone running around in undies and an oversized shirt offend you Lajone, or is it just your FMIL?
Respect ... is appreciation of the separateness of the other person, of the ways in which he or she is unique.
-- Annie Gottlieb

lancaster lady

hi Lajone ,

About the house cleaning .....perhaps by doing this she thinks she is helping , not criticising .
I personally never opened a drawer or cupboard in my DIL's house , because I never felt
at home there .so maybe she feels so at home , she wants to help , just another angle on the subject.
My own FDIL and I had a head to head a wee while ago , and we came out the other side with perhaps a better
understanding of how we both felt on a lot of things . It's hard to go through but sometimes a relationship
needs an air clearing .
I know the other ladies do not agree with contacting your MIL , but it sorted our relationship out once and for all.
We now live together ...... ;D

elsieshaye

I personally would be really uncomfortable with anyone, even good friends, lounging around my house in a t-shirt and panties.  I don't even do that in my own home, especially if my son is there.  I do agree it's a question of personal taste and philosophy, but until you know for sure that someone is ok with it, especially if you're staying in their home, I don't think it's ok to just go ahead and do that and expect no reaction.  I'd definitely say something to the person, but the delivery would depend on who it was.
This too shall pass.  All is well.

Silver Spring

I think we are taught to act in accordance to our surrounding, socially. I walked into a friend's house. She has a shoe rack at the door. My shoes come off. I spent the night at my sister in law's house, she likes to sleep in. I woke early, stayed in my room, read a book. Some households say Grace, some don't. Some people eat with the TV on, others don't. As a guest, I owe a little allegiance to the things going on around me. That means I don't go over to the TV and turn it on while everyone is enjoying dinner. I think that this could easily apply to parading around in underwear as well. If everyone else is in nightwear or dressed for the day, I need to conform a little.

pam1

I agree that we should follow the laws of the land in others home.  However, in the interest of maintaining or promoting good relationships I'd look at this type of situation with a good eye toward myself too.  Not everything that makes *me* uncomfortable needs to be changed by someone else.  Sometimes I can put things aside for a better goal or outcome.  I tend to think these types of situations are the same.  If it's your hill to die on, so be it. 

When I think of things that make me uncomfortable I do run through a checklist.  Is it hurting someone?  Is it abusive behavior?  Etc.  If it's all no and it's just odd or weird, I let it go.  Life is too short, IMHO.



People throw rocks at things that shine - Taylor Swift