The seasons they go 'round and 'round

[lancaster lady]

I told my DD I wanted to go away at Christmas , as the last one was awful without all the family .....
the first thing she said was ...''What about me ?'' ....she is 29 .
When do we ever plan anything where we come first ?
Oh yes I know ....our funeral ...!

[Pen]

Good one, LL! Although how would one ever be sure?

[Rejected]

When there has been contention and strain in a relationship between a young couple and their parents, it really is frustrating for the child when their parents demand that it is their turn for the holidays. With most younger people (and still some older ones) if they are told to do something, they tend to do just the opposite. Do you do anything fun during the holidays? or is it just eating and then sitting around and talking until dessert? Do you play games? Watch movies? something that might interest your DS and DIL a bit more?
I agree with Justus, make other plans for the holidays and eventually when you back away your DS or DIL will come around again(it may take a year or two), however, there are some situations where that bridge is burned and they will never come around, but if they are willing to spend some time with you, even in a neutral place, than I don't think the bridge is burned in your situation. There has obviously been extremely hurt feelings (on both ends) and possibly your DS & DIL no longer feel welcome in your home which is why they have chosen a "neutral" zone to share it with you.  In my situation my MIL will always have her OS and DIL over at her house for holidays (or she's over at theirs because they have kids and we don't) and both my DH and I absolutely refuse to voluntarily spend time with OS and other DIL, so if my MIL wants to spend any holidays with us it's going to be before or after the holiday and you can bet your bottom that she throws a fit because it's not on the holiday.  Our counselor has told us that it is more than okay that we're not spending the actual holiday with her, but as long as she does get a visit and knows that we're thinking about her and that she's loved is enough.  However, I do not feel comfortable in her home, as every time I've been there my DH and I have had to endure constant jabs, being made fun of, laughed at, and being told what to do (aka my MIL's 'loving' advice) so entering her house is like entering a dark cave with all kinds of boobie-traps...eek! So as you can see at my MIL's house during the holidays it's an eat, sit and visit (which is usually negative attention towards my DH and me), then dessert. There is one family game that they love to play where my MIL also singles me out and laughs so hard whenever she kills one of my pieces and apologizes to whoever else she may kill. What a great way to spend a holiday don't you think?   I do prefer to go out to eat in a neutral area because I don't want my MIL disrespecting me in my own house, my haven, either.
I am very sorry you are on the brunt end of this and you give me some insight as to how my own MIL might be feeling. Thank you for that. I don't know your story or your background, so I'm sorry if my two cents is irrelevant. It's just a different view from a DIL and I'm very sorry if I've offended anyone.

[Pen]

Sorry your holidays with the ILs have been so horrid for you, Rejected. What you described does not sound fun to me at all!

My situation is a bit different, but I appreciate your input.

[Pooh]

Herbalescapes, I couldn't find where anyone officially welcomed you.  If they did, well then let me add mine.   If no one let you know, please take a moment to read the Forum Agreement.  We ask all new members to do so, not that anything is wrong with any of your posts.

Welcome.

[Keys Girl]

Amflautist, I can remember the early day of my marriage, when my ex-husband and I spent Christmas Eve and Christmas Day traveling all over hell's half acre within one city to keep both sets of parents happy that they were getting their fair share of our time.  Seems like that kind of consideration went out the window with the rotary telephone.

I think what would bother me is the whole "Neutral Place" meeting condition seems to me like it's "anywhere except your home/turf".  I would take that ball and run with it and make arrangements to help serve Thanksgiving dinner (or something like that) at an home for the aged, sick, or homeless and invite your son and DIL to join you.  That's the only invitation I would offer, I wouldn't offer another invitation to my home that is likely going to find it's way to the bottom of the barrel and if they choose not to accept the invitation, then I would respect their (foolish) choice.

Good luck, the holidays are always difficult, I have found that make new traditions that I can keep to as the years go by to be helpful, who knows if it catches on you can invited DIL's family to join you next year.  The more the merrier.  Get t-shirts printed with the year and get a catchy name for your group.  I doubt that you'll have trouble keeping a smile on your face when you look at the other faces of so many people who are hurting in so many ways that I know will be happy to see you.

I don't mind "Neutral Places", but I get to do the choosing otherwise I won't be in attendance if you want to put those kinds of conditions down!

[tryingmybest]

Absolutely. What bothers me so much about this "time of the life" is the notion that somehow we all have to jump through hoops in order to be awarded the gift of our DS and DIL presence in our lives, and even then it will be on their terms - and if we attempt to actually express our wishes then whoosh we are difficult controlling mothers in law. But let there me a problem, then they are at the front door looking for help and all those "rules" are forgotten. then it's back to the rules of childhood - Mom has to take care of me!
I know it's childish but my feelings at the moment are if DIL's foo gets first place for the good stuff, they need to be the first in line to step up and deal with the problems. 
I'm telling my-self I'm detaching "with love" but in reality I am angry and tired of being treated badly. My DS was a difficult kid to raise and I did what needed to be done and he got past the problems. Now some other family gets to benefit, and some other mother gets "first place" and I resent it.

[lancaster lady]

TMB

you just summed up my life in the first paragraph .
Also my FDIL FOO didn't step up and deal with any problems ........my thoughts are, when the problems are passed ,
will I also be a thing of the past !

[tryingmybest]

  What I am really struggling to do is to figure out where I am in this whole process. I know my son is distancing right now because he sees me as the Mom figure being, I don 't know connected to the boy he's trying to escape from being. May-be it's them trying to establish dominance..I have been trying to figure this all out for over two years now and I'm frankly sick of it. They're the adult until they need something then they are the kid., and I'm the yo- yo. I think we should all move into a MIL commune, where we can finally make it all about US!

[Pen]

A community of crones! The senior females of a society (sometimes known as "the white haired") used to be revered for their knowledge and wisdom. When I read Women Who Run With the Wolves a few years ago I realized that older women in our society are not valued as they were in times past. As I rapidly approach "cronehood" I see it first hand.

I wonder how many difficult MILs would be less so if they knew they would be valued as they aged? I'm sure some MILs have been hellions their entire lives, but IMO some are just reacting to suddenly becoming unimportant and irrelevant. In those cases a bit of consideration from the youngsters might go a long way towards soothing a troubled relationship.

However, in most cases we must make respect and relevance happen for ourselves, as Luise has done. I think a lot of our pain comes from feeling as if we put in years and years of service to others w/o any acknowledgement or gratitude. We know we're not immortal, and we won't get those years back, so when we are suddenly deemed irrelevant it's as if the major portion of our lives was for naught. Waiting for others to value us just adds to our frustration and sorrow; we have to do it for ourselves.

Yup, big talker here...one day I'll actually walk the talk! I am learning, slowly.

[Rejected]

My take on the relationship between my MIL and me is that she has every right to behave the way she does, BUT I have the right not to accept her behavior if I feel that it is violating my rights, which 90% of the time it is. Therefore I avoid contact with her as much as possible. My DH has tested the waters on numerous occasions after some time has passed and she still disrespects us, and so the limited contact continues. She has every right to feel the way she does, act the way she does, and she doesn't have to change if she doesn't want to, but again I don't have to tolerate it. She cannot treat others the way she does AND expect people cater to her. She can't have her cake and eat it too. I'm not making my MIL jump through hoops, she's made her own bed and now she can lay in it. The ball is in my MIL's court. When she decides she can act like an adult herself and show respect to my DH and me as adults, respect our own family unit, and respect us as individuals then she can have a relationship with us.

[amflautist]

Keys, I love, love, love your advice.  Taking our meeting into a neutral territory that I choose.  Now why didn't I think of that?  I'm going to work on that idea.  I don't know where we'll land, but I know it won't be at a restaurant chosen by DS and DIL.   A mountain high Thank You for your counsel!

Pen, a community of crones.  I could go with that.  I remember that my mother used to spend hours in the kitchens of her neighbors - and they spent hours in her kitchen.  They called it something like coffee klatch.  I doubt they were getting the gratitude from their families they wanted, but at least they had each other.  As a society, we seem to have lost that neighborhood closeness, that neighborliness. 

[tryingmybest]

Crone Power! I love it, I think we need T-Shirts!   

[luise.volta]

I think the being hurt and angry is absolutely necessary for us to get past our expectations and knowing we deserve better and have done a good job. We just have to be careful not to get stuck there. Tricky.

[o.b.sikhquus]

I think the being hurt and angry is absolutely necessary for us to get past our expectations and knowing we deserve better and have done a good job. We just have to be careful not to get stuck there. Tricky.

More wise words by you Luise.