Where to Start? My daughter-in-law

[themuffin]

First thing - Did you guys know that Stay-At-Home-Moms (SAHM's) sometimes consider their "job" as being the Mom, not being the housekeeper?  That the 'mothering' is what takes up 7.5 hrs a day, just like a paying job, and that, just like a WOHM (work outside the home Mom), the housekeeping is considered shared chores, to be done AFTER regular working hours.  Ginger, maybe your DIL feels this way?  Seriously, I've even seen a SAHMom post "You don't clean toilets at your job do you?"  Eeek!  It's a different way of looking at the situation, that's for sure.

Second thing - A friend of mine once reminded me that sometimes, we see or hear about the fight between the couple, but we don't usually see or hear about the apology or the 'making up' part.  The way she put it was "On the next Oprah - Man Takes Wife Out For Nice Dinner".  That really stuck with me.

Unfortunately, your DS has negotiated his relationship with his wife.  He must be getting something out of it, or else he would change it or he would leave.  Sometimes it's easier to see, sometimes it's not.

Have you talked to your DS about ways that you can make things easier?  Like for me, more notice from the IL's *would* make things better, right off the bat.

Wow!!  I must say I'm very proud of myself, my mother, my grandmother.  I was a SAHM until the boys were ready for pre-K at the age of four. I didn't actually consider being their mother and keeping our home clean "my job".  I know it was considered hard work, but to me it was actually one of those "jobs" that I loved to do, so it didn't seem like work.  His job was to work outside the home and provide for us, my job was to work inside the home which included taking care of the kids and keeping our home decent.  I thought that was pretty fair.  I've been working outside the home for 17 years and I still clean the toilet.  I just squirt the blue stuff around it and give it a few swooshes with the toilet brush.  Not really that much of a "eek" at all, lol.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by DS negotiating his relationship with his DW.  Sure he's putting up with it now, but as per the poster he's not pleased with the belittling he's been enduring from DW.  If things don't change he may very well reach his breaking point.  Sadly, if things continue on the path that Ginger describes he may look else where for someone who allows him to "feel like a man".  I imagine that DS loves his DW and his family and is willing to accept the way she makes him feel sometimes because he loves her.  It's also a possiblity that she may upset him by doing x,y,z .....BUT she does A,B,C,D,H,I,J,K,L, M, N, O, P,  so well that he just lets it slide.

I'll tell you this, from the outside looking in, if my MIL could hear the way I talked to my hubby she would probably be thinking the same thing.  Hubby does not get the lovey dovey talk from me.  And he has some nick names that would make you blush....but....at the end of the day, 27 years later (added the 4 years we dated) he is the rhythm of my heart...and he knows this.

The relationship between DS and his DW is their business.  If she says "Jump" and he says "How high?" as his mother you may hate that (I would) but it's not our business. 

Ginger,  LOL, I chuckled when you wrote, "he said that he even makes up the bed" .  GASP!!!  LOL, come on.  Really?  Big deal.  He made up a bed for his mother, LOL.  No!!! Not the bed!! Did he really have to make the bed?  Grounds for divorce, lol. Sorry it just tickled me. 

Okay, Ginger you and I and some of the other MIL's here have the same problem.  Our DS's are involved with pushy, controlling women with bad attitudes.  They don't like us and we don't like them because they don't like us.  We also don't like the way they treat our sons, but we aren't married to them.  It's their choice.  If we push too hard, we risk pushing them BOTH away.  I know it's frustrating and disappointing.  You prepare your child for life, you hope they find love with a wonderful person who will be a positive addition to your life as well and instead they marry people that we never imagined they would pick to spend their lives with.  So dies the dreams for the happy extended family we had been longing for.

We have to face it. Some DIL's just have funky personalities, just like some MIL's do.  She may come around, she may never come around.  Such is the price we pay....

Hugs

 

[Pen]

I'm finding a lot to think about in this thread.

When we love our guests, or are understanding of the love our spouse feels for them, we view our preparatory or other housework as blessing them and our family, IMO. When we resent our guests we see it as a chore. Our DIL has never invited us over, which speaks volumes.

It's hard to be a wonderful, loving, accepting MIL when I've struck out before even being allowed to bat. Knowing how DIL feels about us has affected our lives in unexpected ways. Because she also hates our friends, we dare not invite them for holidays in case DS & DIL decide to show up (we tried doing that once to avoid the dreaded "lonely dinner table" at Thanksgiving one year when DS & DIL could not commit to an ETA - DIL's FOO got first pick, as usual.) I have to make lame excuses to my friends when they express a desire to see DS on his rare visits. I'm now self-conscious and self-critical about everything from housework to career to life choices and beyond. I see everything from her point of view and judge myself accordingly.

DS, DIL & her FOO aren't affected by this in the least, go figure! Life goes on as normal for them, better than ever in fact.

Now, why do I put up with this, you may ask? To see my DS. It's the unfair, unjust way of it...and when I get sick of it I'll speak up. Until then I do whatever I can and keep my feelings to myself.

[jdtm]

Now, why do I put up with this, you may ask? To see my DS. It's the unfair, unjust way of it...and when I get sick of it I'll speak up. Until then I do whatever I can and keep my feelings to myself.

Understand totally.  I did this for over a decade - once, just once when I was asked to babysit, I stated "no".  Our DIL (now ex) never spoke to me again.  She was looking for a way to exclude us and one day when I was unable to babysit, she found it.  Unless you have lived this, you can not understand.  I would never have believed that I would have "lost myself" trying to "save my family" and then being criticized and humiliated and depressed for trying to do so.  Truly some of us are born without a conscience and absence of feelings for others.  But I digress from the topic ....

[ginger]

There was a lot to read here ladies.  How do you highlight the quotes?

Themuffin I was not trying to be humorous and I was not trying to imply that the changing of the bed was the ultimate breaking point.  I was trying to explain how my daughter-in-law is intentionally refusing to do anything and her reasoning is based on the fact that it's his mother so she shouldn't have to.

I understand how hard it is to be a good mother, I too provided a loving home for my children.  Part of teaching your children is through play and more often then not through example.   So my grandchild sees a mother who has time to play tea with her but this same woman does not have time or the ability to say a kind word to her husband.  This is not a case of my daughter-in-law disliking me, she want the world to know that she owns her husband and I do mean owns.  She has let me know she owns him, she has chased off his friends because she owns him, and even her parents know that she owns him. 

If my son was at the point of discussing this with me, (which he was embarrassed) was only because his own wife was to busy justifying her behavior to take the moment away from herself to hear him.  My daughter-in-law any daughter-in-law out there who is proud of her belittlement of a spouse should stop for a moment and realize that they are not only destroying their own relationship but that of their children.  I hope my daughter-in-law never feels the need to venture onto the internet to brag about how she has put her husband in his place.  God knows he gets enough of that message directed at him daily, does he need for others to participate in his embarrassment?

[themuffin]

Hi Ginger,

   I'm sorry. I hope I didn't offend you.  Honest.  It just struck me as funny. And Lord knows that sometimes when we are dealing with these issues we need to find some humor.  I understand you weren't trying to be funny and I understand how hurtful this situation can be.  I have a FDIL who is very similar to yours.  So similar in fact its scary.  My FDIL bragged to me that she won, that she had him and I didn't.  You would have thought I was the other woman and not his mother.  To make matters even worst my own DS agreed with her! It was very hurtful and so not funny to me.  I apologize, perhaps it wasn't the time for humor.

   I feel for you. Our children aren't suppose to be with these selfish controlling people.  We aren't suppose to feel uncomfortable in the homes of our children.  We should be loved and welcomed and embraced by their spouses, afterall, aren't we partly responsible for raising the person they love.  I thought I would be loved too, or at least liked.  NEVER did I dream that my son would marry a person who thought me the enemy and treat me with hostility.

   Some days you just have to laugh, Ginger.  I say to myself, "Thank God I don't have to come home to her everyday." Then I chuckle and try to enjoy my day.

   Hugs, it will get better.  If it doesn't change, you'll at least get used to it.

[Pooh]

There was a lot to read here ladies.  How do you highlight the quotes?

Ginger, when you see a quote you want to highlight, click on "Quote" in the upper right hand corner of that post.  It will bring up the entire post in between the words "quote" at the beginning and at the end.  You need to erase any part of the quote you don't want to quote, leaving the bracketed quote word on the front and end. (Sorry, couldn't use the actual brackets around "quote" or I would have quoted my own quote!)  Then type what you want to say after the last word {quote}.

Hope that makes sense.  It takes a couple of times to get it and if you hit preview after you do it, it should show you if you are doing it right.

[Sassy]

I am glad you put this in your own topic that's not Scoop's 3-weeks holding pattern with 3 days notice for a weekend visit with no arrival or departure times mentioned in advance.  Yours is a totally different topic, with a much different and more serious dynamic.  Expecting a housekeeping partnership with your spouse, or even a room mate, is not disrespectful.  A man being expected to clean up before he invites houseguests, is not a man being punished.  It is a man being expected to contribute to the preparation of activities he planned and he wants to happen.   I would go so far as saying that a partner who expects his partner to do all the heavy lifting for his planned activities would be a rather disrespectful partner.


For your topic, it seems there are two somewhat separate concerns for you.

First, it appears you feel your son is the victim in an emotionally abusive relationship.   You've observed he doesn't have an extensive support system to discuss how he's treated, so he comes to you.   I would suggest to anyone, man or woman, who came to me and said they felt their partner has isolated them, and they're in depression of how much their partner belittles them, that they talk to a licensed and experienced counselor who specializes in helping victims of Domestic Violence.   

Second, you want to know how to have a better relationship with whom you've essentially described as your son's abuser.   If she is an abuser, she will always be looking for an excuse to abuse. It's not about you.  So you can continue to have access to your son while he chooses to remain partnered with whom you see as his abuser, I would just mind p's and q's and limit your expectations to those you can expect from an abuser.

[ginger]

I do not think that I will have to get use to anything.  I do not visit their home often maybe 3 times a year once for 4 days due to a special event, other then that my visits are typically from Saturday to Monday.  My daughter-in-law is not directly offending me she is just determined to show everyone that she has her husband on a tight leash and she is proud of this fact.  If she knew of a website like this one she would be here to brag about how she made him clean the house, how she made him cook the dinners.  All of her sentences would begin with how she made him.

What she doesn't see is how he is growing to resent her, how much he detest her behavior her arrogant attitude and her nasty tongue.  She will never see that she is teaching her own little girl to be just like her.  Is this mental illness? I don't know but her inability to recognize this is no better then refusing to see that she alone is destroying a marriage and a man. 

My son called last night and asked if he could move funds to my account for possibly easy access.  It is clear that their marriage is quickly dissolving.  I will not step in as I have not done so yet, but I would love for her to read this post and see herself in it if only for a moment and change her domineering ways. Any woman who feels that her husband appreciates being constantly chastised and belittled are probably the same women who are quick to cry foul when they feel that others are secretly criticizing them.

[ginger]

Thank you for your kind words Sassy.  I do not believe that my son is a victim of abuse in the sense of domestic violence.  I see him as a victim of a overbearing wife who refuses to see a marriage as a partnership. I am not after a better relationship with my daughter-in-law as much as I would like to see her readjust her thinking when she says this is your mom, your problem.  The fact that she is never happy with any gift, visit, offering leads me to understand that this is her problem and as you said she will not change.

You said "I am glad you put this in your own topic that's not Scoop's 3-weeks holding pattern with 3 days notice for a weekend visit with no arrival or departure times mentioned in advance. "  I'm not quite following what you meant here.  If I gave my son and wife a three week notice of a visit she would complain for 3 weeks, that would add an unnecessary 2 weeks of browbeating.  Like Scoop any visit I would make would be soured before I arrived, as she chooses to view everything in a negative light, unless there is a gift of money.  I really do not know, if I purchased the couple a anniversary gift would my daughter-in-laws first thought process be, Am I going to get a birthday gift, my birthday comes before my anniversary, my anniversary gift was nice boy I bet my birthday gift if I even get one will really suck.   I don't understand women getting themselves worked up in this negative fashion and expecting anything but a negative outcome.

[elsieshaye]

Why can't he open his own separate bank account?  (Unless he wants to hide his assets from a child support evaluation, which IMO is shabby.)  I'd be very leery of getting in the middle of this.

[ginger]

He said that it was short term, I have a feeling that he is trying to compile enough money to speak with an attorney. 

Elsieshaye, Please do not make negative assumptions about my son's intentions.  He has worked long hard hours starting and enhancing his own business.  He has been the soul supporter of his family and has provided a beautiful home for his little girl. His child means everything to him, to the point of putting up with the humiliation that his wife dishes out just to stay in her life.  Not every man is out to shun responsibilities that come with having a child. Matter of fact I feel that a great majority will endure a domineering wife in an attempt to keep their family together.

Yes it would be shabby as you said, maybe this is what your son might do but I think it's unfair to make that assumption about mine.  I'm seeing a trend here on this website my example of my son even having to make sure that clean sheets are in order for me to visit is mocked, now it's being assumed that because he would like to retain his testes that he is preparing to shaft his own child, she the same child that he said he would walk on fire for.  And walking on fire is what he is doing while his wife is busily making sure that the world knows that she is head of her household.  Ladies I'm terribly sorry, I've made a grave error in coming here.

[Sassy]

The topic of Scoop's thread was how much notice is advance notice. Scoop did not get 3 weeks notice to expect a guest.  She did get 3 weeks' notice that "maybe or maybe not" she might want to expect a guest.   The guest said she may decide to work instead, she wasn't sure.   Meanwhile Scoop was asked to keep her schedule clear for the "maybe - maybe not" guests.  When asked the weekend before if they are coming the next, they got another "maybe - maybe not."    3 days notice of actually getting a guest, much less a guest who expects specific accomodations, is not enough time for me.  Having 3 days of notice is still only 3 days notice.  Having weeks of maybe beforehand increases anxiety about the visit, and does not lessen the actual notice.  Finding out on Friday night they're not coming out on Friday night is also disconcerting.  Being treated like that before a visit colors everything else.   Working up any hostess with three weeks of "maybe - maybe not" they'll be there for the weekend, but keep it open for us in case we decide to come, is not conducive to a positive outcome.   

I'm going to reread your posts about your son, since I thought you felt he was being treated abusively, but have since learned you do not.

[elsieshaye]

Ginger, I completely understand that you are hurting and raw right now, but it seems like you are feeling very attacked by many things said here, and are choosing to attack in return.  This might be a good time to step away from the computer and do something kind and soothing for yourself.  I hope you can find some measure of peace and that things work out for your son and his wife.

[Sassy]

I do not believe that my son is a victim of abuse in the sense of domestic violence.  I see him as a victim of a overbearing wife who refuses to see a marriage as a partnership. I am not after a better relationship with my daughter-in-law as much as I would like to see her readjust her thinking when she says this is your mom, your problem.

[gretchenw]

Ginger, I see in your son the same decency and gentleness for his family and for his mother that I see in my own son.  If it were me, I would be doing exactly the same as you are -- including allowing him to sequester money in my account. 

Sometimes I have found this site difficult.  I hear some people ranting away about a mil or dil, but I don't see an equal effort at rapprochement.  I wish for more of the latter in all of us. 

I write this to let you know that I admire your approach to your son's problem.   I hope you stick around.