New here, don't know what to do

[amflautist]

I offer myself as scapegoat.  When you call your DD's professor, tell him you were urged (forced!) to make the call by the wife of a professor from a major (top 10) large (30,000 students) university - one that has suicides every year.  Tell that professor the nosey wife (me) MADE you do it when she heard that your DD had threatened suicide. 

[amflautist]

P.S.  Me again.  I've been rereading your posts.  You ask when is the right time to reveal to DD that you had drug problems before you were pregnant with her.  My answer is possibly never.  Certainly not now.  She is not mature enough to handle that information. 

However, I think it might be relevant to mention to your daughter's professor, when you call him, that her father is bipolar. 

[dvg]

Thank you, amflautist.  Luise is right, there is no such thing as unsolicited advice here.  I post here because I want advice!

That's a great idea to get in touch with her advisor - if I can find out who that person is.  She did tell me last semester that there is a professor she's had a class with who she really likes, and she's taking a class with him again, so if she won't tell me who her advisor is, I could contact him.

It's so hard to tell if she threatens suicide to get her way or if she is actually depressed.  I'm encouraging her to go to the college counseling center, but she is refusing to go.

SS is definitely moving in with her.  I'm hoping that she focuses on her studies and he gets bored and leaves, but of course there's no guarantee of that happening.  I'm trapped in an apartment lease for this year, but next year I can get tougher.  She'll threaten to drop out of school, like she did this time around, if she can't have an apartment.  The problem with giving her an ultimatum is that I have to be prepared to live with the consequences - what if she did drop out of school and followed SS and his drug and punk street lifestyle?  Then I would blame myself.

I started seeing a family counselor, and she said exactly the same thing you did about when, or if, to tell DD about my past.  She said definitely not now, and if I do, only in general terms, no specifics are necessary. 

Thank you!  No one ever told me parenting gets harder when they become so-called adults.

[luise.volta]

When we decide we want a "baby" and we find we are going to have one...we picture a "baby." LOL!

Then here comes my DS, 6 foot 2, looking down on me from great heights and telling me I am the world's worst mother! That's a whole new ball game! The score? Three strikes and you're out and I didn't even know I was up to bat.

[Ruth]

It appears to me that you are being held hostage??  I believe we, the parent who is providing support to an adult child,  have the right to change the rules when we need to, or feel it is in our child's best interest, or even in my own best interest in some circumstances.  People are very good at manipulating with fear tactics (i'll quit school if you don't give me what I want - I'll kill myself if I don't get what I want, etc.) forgive me if I'm out of line as I'm not a psychologist or an academic, but I've had a lot of experience with being manipulated and intimidated this way.  Maybe I'd just call the bluff and say , fine, its your future if you want to drop out of school and support yourself flipping burgers or soaking your swollen feet at the end of a day standing at a cash register, then go for it.   College students are not children.   They are adults and need to be held accountable to adult standards.  They can smell fear and sadly it can work for them, but caving in isn't sending the message of personal accountability that they need in order to be responsible for their own decisions.    Its really hard not to cave in, and much easier to cave it and feel like you're 'a good Mom'.  You have to feel like crap when you refuse to cave in.  Maybe working a year out in the real world and support herself would be a great life lesson and could result in going back to school with a new winning attitude.  who knows.

[Pooh]

I totally agree with Ruth!  As far as blaming yourself?  For what?  I know it's easy to feel guilty in situations like this, but it's soooo not you who's to blame if she does those things.  She has only herself to blame as you are offering her every opportunity to fix her life.  If she came to you today and said, "Give me a thousand dollars or I'm going to start doing meth", would you try to find a dollars for her?  Hopefully you would tell her that you were not giving her a thousand dollars and you hope she didn't ruin her life like that, but it was on her if she did.

I'm not trying to be mean either, but she is truly manipulating you.  I would be willing to bet she knows how kind and nice you are, and knows you will give in and she's using that at every opportunity.

[amflautist]

I agree with Ruth and Pooh.  It is nuts to think that your DD can study and keep up her grades with SS in the apt too.  So let's figure this out together. 

1. You probably can't monitor whether or not SS is staying there.  You probably can't squeeze him out by making him pay rent, etc.  In any such circumstance DD and SS will probably lie to you, and you have no way of obtaining the truth.  So ultimatums about SS won't work.

2. The issue is whether DD goes to class and maintains her grades.  You can't monitor whether she goes to class, but you can base your financial support on her grades.  What grades has she been getting up to this point?  Perhaps you should base full financial support on (a) a full load of courses, and (b) a minimum grade in those courses.  Given what you have said previously about her ability, I believe that minimum ought to be a B!! 

3. The issue of her apartment and your paying for it.  You have signed a contract.  Doesn't mean DD has to live there.  You can always sublet to another deserving student.

Mom, you are paying for her education.  Set up some rules about use of your money.

[Rose799]

I agree with Ruth & Pooh & amflautist.  I learned that lesson the hard way, dvg.  We would have done most anything to get dd back in school after she quit & moved in with her bf.   Once she did start back, we footed school, car payments, ins, etc., while she took her grant money & moved in with another friend.   For a moment, we felt a sigh of relief when she graduated, but then she moved on to the big league, holding gc hostage.  Your dd changed the rules by having SS move in with her.  I see no reason why you shouldn't be allowed to bend them, as well.   Choose your battles; dvd, as difficult as it is, back-peddling is sooo much harder. 

[elsieshaye]

Realistically, if she wants to drop out and do drugs, she'll do that whether you provide her with an apartment or not.  Right now, she's got an apartment, and no consequences.  What she does is on her in any case, positive or negative - you can't influence her choices to the point of being responsible for them, even though it's a mom's curse to feel responsible for everything they think or do that doesn't turn out right.  But seriously, speaking as someone who was shielded from the consequences of my own actions for way too long, and then paid doubly hard when I had to learn without the option of going to my parents (because they'd both passed away at that point), it's better for her and for you to let her fail now while she still has a chance to climb her way out of it.  Some of us only learn by doing, unfortunately.

[dvg]

Thank you all so much.  Sorry it's taken me so long to reply.  I've been in a deep, paralyzing depression as a result of all of this, to the point that I'm barely able to do my work and now fear that my job could be in jeopardy if I don't pull it together somehow.  There is no pain like that from family.  There are days I feel I just can't go on.

She is holding me hostage.  She's learned that so far she has had her way on everything by manipulating me, threatening to drop out of school and cut off all contact with me if I don't do what she wants, and she knows I'm so afraid of her doing that and so I cave in.  In retrospect when she demanded an apartment, I should have said if you want to drop out of school because you can't have your way on this, then that is your adult decision.  She likes to say she is an adult, well, adults have to face the consequences of their bad choices.  It's hard that she is much more strong willed than I am.  There were posts on another thread about genetic influences, and I see that.  SS and DD both have a mean streak, and they can both be both very nice and kind and very cruel.  SS has been mean to DD several times, and when he is, she comes to me for emotional support, but keeps coming back for more.  The counselor I've been seeing says that they have a very sick relationship.

She very good at manipulating me.  She knows I haven't said no yet when she pulls my strings, with threatening to use drugs and drop out of school.  But if I don't stop caving in now, she'll continue with that pattern.  Just yesterday when I said I am paying for this apartment, so I should be able to come and see her, she emailed back that if I did that she would leave and never talk to me again.  If she really means a threat like that, then I guess her education doesn't mean that much to her.

We had our ups and downs before she met SS, but overall she was a great kid.  His influence on her has changed her whole personality.

The reason I wanted to go to see her is that SS is causing a lot of problems already.  He had promised her that he would take some community college classes and that they would be studying together and wouldn't bring his friends over except on the weekend.  Well, she told me that he has been bringing them over all the time, and let them stay the night when she didn't want them there.  They drink and do drugs, and I'm sure that she is doing drugs too now.  She's complained to me that he never cleans up after himself and neither do his friends.  (I told her that I was the maid when he was here - I cleaned up after him to avoid arguments and if I didn't do it, then it wouldn't get done, and told her that when he was with her, she would be the maid).  He manipulates her just like she manipulates me - he knows she wants him around, so she told me he told her that if she didn't let his friends stay, he would leave.  I told her to think about herself and not throw away everything she worked so hard for, and let him go.  She let them stay.  She's not setting any boundaries with him.  He has plenty of money - more than I have - but contributes nothing, and she complained to me about that too. 

Then a few days ago, he got drunk and angry and punched a hole in a door.  At that point she was ready for him to leave but he is still there.  I offered to come down, or contact the manager to get him to leave, but she didn't want that.  I'm afraid for her safety.  First a hole in the door, then I'm afraid next time he might attack her.  He's a trained fighter and he could literally kill her.  Some texts she sent me indicate that she's afraid of him.

She was literally crying that he desecrated her home, but she won't kick him out.  She cried that he doesn't care about her (and I believe that is true) and at one point she said she was "done" with him, but apparently they're getting along just fine now, so next thing she'll be telling me that she's "through" with me, as she has before.

At one point she wanted me to send her money for a hotel room so she could get out.  I told her to go to a hotel, then have them call me and I would pay for it over the phone with a credit card - I didn't want to send money because I thought she might spend it on drugs.  Then she said to send money so she could get out the way she wanted - she mentioned going to another city and staying with a friend.  I told her I would not give her money for that - if she wants to come here for a weekend, to get away, I will pay for that, but not for her to run off.  Then she stopped asking. 

She got so distraught she asked me to call the college to see about dropping out for personal reasons.  I told her to go to the counseling center and also to talk to her professors, that they would be understanding and work with her to salvage the semester.  I do think that when the deadline to withdraw approaches, I'll remind her of that and tell her that a withdrawal looks better than a string of Fs.  If she withdraws, she could still salvage her academic career, although not at this college because she would lose her scholarship. 

That's not until the end of October, and with all the ups and downs I don't even know if she'll be talking to me then.

After the door incident, I seriously thought about calling the police when I knew she wasn't there to get him out.

She admits she has a love-hate relationship with him.  She's gone through cycles several times now where he is mean to her, she comes crying to me, then she comes running back to him and is nasty to me, telling me to leave her alone.

She also admitted that she's already having trouble with one of her classes.  I suggested she get tutoring, and she says she did.  What she wants to do will require post-college education, so if she does not keep her grades up, she will lose the opportunity for that.   

SS tries to drive her and me apart. When she was off with him before school started, she sent me some very nasty texts - and then later said she was sorry, that she didn't mean them, that she didn't hate me, but said that because he made her.  I don't know why he wants to drive her away from me - I've done more for him than his own mother has.  I gave him a place to stay when he was homeless last winter (before he got the huge settlement) and helped him get his GED.

Looking ahead, assuming she does stay in school, I don't have to get her an apartment next year.  I can tell her that if she wants to stay in school, she can live in the dorm (or find shared housing with other students, or rent a room in a house, something that will cost the same as a dorm).  I am not going to pay for her to live with SS.  If he wants her to live with him, and she wants to stay in school, he can rent an apartment.  He's a parasite - with all his money, she says he's not even buying her food.  Good thing I got her a plan that lets her get some meals on campus.

I'll put money on her student ID card so she can buy food on campus, but I am not going to send her any money because I don't know how it will be used.

It looks like I'll have to prepare myself for her cutting me off.  But maybe she will have to learn the hard way.  How do you let go? I've given my whole heart and being to her.

Thank you all for being here.  You are a lifeline.

[hurting2011]

DVG, Hang in there. My daughter up until she started her senior year in high school had always did everything right. Pretty and pleasing... She got very involved with a young man in her freshman year that was a year older than her. She was so serious about the relationship by the time she turned a senior. She loved this young man. She spent most of her junior and senior year crying because of things he said and did. No amount of talking could talk her out of this situation. I told her she had cried more in her young life than I had in my whole 48 years - no way could this be love.

She ended up leaving home on Christmas Eve...with her boyfriend. She had called our local police department and said she was afraid of her father. Never had he touched her or disciplined her inappropriately. She was 17 and they came to our house  - the boyfriend was waiting at the road to pick her up.  We had never been so hurt!!  I did a lot of praying. Praying that I could accept whatever my daughter decided to do with her life and praying that I could still tell her we loved her and she could come home whenever she wanted.

She came back after her boyfriend was getting ready to leave to go to Japan - he ended up joining the Airforce. This young man wanted us to sign for our daughter to get married. He wanted her to move to Japan. I told her, I would not sign for her to get married- when she turned 18 if she wanted to she was free to make that decision - only because the law says she can.  I was still hopefully this young man could get his stuff together and joining the Airforce was a good thing but I still was afraid he would hurt her- physically and mentally.  Well, she found out he got another girl pregnant- the boyfriend denied it. He had quite a reputation...so patiently I waited. The day my daughter got the news about the birth...she finally saw the light!! She cried and cried and I came home from work and held her while she cried. All cried out, I told  her go wash your face and we will try to figure things out. That day, which happened to be her Daddy's (my husband's) birthday - BEST present ever. She filled out her college application and hasn't looked back since.  The young man hurt her and I think she really loved him but he couldn't love her the way she needed and she would have had a pretty unhappy life had they married. Never have I prayed  so hard.
We have had to work at our relationship.Today we are closer than even before. Things changed the day she left home and they changed when she moved back. It was a life lesson for all of us but particularly for her.

Unfortunately, we are going through some things with our son...at the age of 31.  His outburst has kind of blindsided us because it literally "just happened".

I pray that he too will one day come around. Until then I am just hopeful.So...hang in there your dd could see the light yet.

Hugs to you and your mom!

[Pen]

DVG, I understand how difficult it must be to stop enabling your DD and SS, but IMO you must. Your livelihood and health are on the line! They have made their choices, you've given them plenty of chances to improve their behavior to no avail. It's all about you now, please please please stop caving in!

[luise.volta]

You have "given your life away." When we do that we "cease to be" in many ways. Your life is yours. No one can "hold you hostage" unless you either agree or there is no you. My take on this is that we need to rescue ourseves first and foremost and then see what we can do to create supportive relationships built on equality. When devalue ourselves...others follow suit. Sending love...

[Pooh]

Hang in there DVG but you have to break the cycle.  You are the only one that can.

[dvg]

Thank you all, again.  This hurts so much and I'm losing the ability to function because of the heartbreak.  I did the best I could but it wasn't good enough.

Luise, it makes sense that by being a doormat and caving in to her, that encourages her to devalue me.  It will be hard to say no when she demands an apartment again or she'll drop out of school (she'll try the same thing again) but it's past time to draw the line.

I've decided that SS will not be allowed in the house again.  If that means DD won't come back here, then I have to accept that.  I don't ever want to see SS again.  He's succeeding in driving a wedge between DD and me, after all I've done for him.  Maybe if DD sees that I'm letting him go, she will get the message.  They are brother and sister but this has all the hallmarks of an abusive relationship - he says cruel things to her, punches holes in the wall, she gets hurt and angry and says she is "done" with him (just as she has said she's "done" with me), then he is super nice and she forgives everything and seems to think everything's fine.

I forgive him, but that does not mean I want him in my house, or in my life for that matter.  Of course she will always be welcome to come back, but it will have to be without him. 

Hurting2011, I'm so glad your DD came around and sorry you're going through it with your son.  Sometimes it seems the pain of parenting never ends. 

Today I looked at some old pictures of her and what a sweet, delightful child she was.  Maybe it is time to grieve the loss of the relationship I once had with her.  Being "nice" to her has not saved the relationship, it has only lost me.

Do you think I should just not communicate with her until she makes the first move?  I asked her to please respond to an email so I would know she was OK, that I was worried for her safety because I'm afraid that with SS it would be the door first, then her.  What I got back was to stop emailing and texting, that it was annoying and she didn't have time for it.  I'd also said that since I am paying the rent, I should be able to come and see her (SS brings his "friends" over whenever he wants and she goes along with it).

She answered that if I came there, she was leaving and never talking to me again. 

But when she is angry or hurt over how he mistreats her, she expects me to always be there for her.  She knows that no matter how she treats me like dirt, I won't turn my back on her.  But I can and will stop giving her money.

I don't know how else to break the cycle except by not giving her money and preparing myself for her dropping out of school.

I'll have no way of knowing how she is doing in school until the end of the semester unless she tells me - and even then maybe not, because she could revoke access to her grades.  If she does that, do you think I should refuse to pay for next year until I see her grades? If she's on drugs with SS it's possible she could try to live off me while partying with him.

I've been praying about this - and begging God that if there is reincarnation, please next time let me not be in a family.  There were great joys, and I will always love her, but the pain is so great.

When she's in a receptive mood - there may be more of these cycles next time he emotionally abuses her - maybe then I can tell her that I can't take any more, so whether or not she stays in school is her decision and I've given up trying to influence her.  She knows that if she throws away this opportunity, there will not be another like it - but dropping out would be better than flunking out.  It's up to her.  I will tell her that if she drops out and runs off (or if she goes off again with SS over the summer) I will pay for her cell phone and a bus ticket home when she's ready, but nothing else.  If she wants to be with her half brother, he has more money than I do - let him support her.  (She has complained about how he spends money on his friends but nothing on her - he doesn't even buy food for the place after he promised he would). 

It floors me that, even after all her texts (which I kept) about how he has no respect for her, and after he's been so cruel, she's back to thinking he's wonderful again.  She forgives him everything and me nothing.  Sorry for venting - I have nowhere else to go.