New here, don't know what to do

[CityGirl]

DVG, I am sending lots of hopeful and healing thoughts and prayers your way.

I cannot imagine the extra pain of not just the rejection but your fear for her safety.  She is very young but hopefully she is smart enough not to throw away all the advantages you have provided her with.

In the meantime the best advice is what you have been already given - take care of yourself.  Al Anon is a great source of support, maybe a few meetings would help?  Do you have a clergy person you feel comfortable talking to?  You need to do anything you can do to build up your own support system.

[alohomora]

When I was 18 I left my home town and went across the country for school. My parents at the time, IMO, were too involved in my business and I yearned for freedom. By mid-year, I cut them off financially and got student loans/jobs to pay my own way.

I think at 19, after being at school for a year, and going home to not one, but essentially two mother figures, can be overwhelming on a teenager trying to 'find' herself. What my family didn't get for a long time was that my parents house was no longer my 'home'. My home was in my new city.

I don't know your situation. But she might have felt suffocated and reacted in an immature manor. Maybe she doesn't know/hasn't learned yet how to act like an adult.

Someone insulting you doesn't deserve your assistance however. I wouldn't take back her education money and prevent her from going to school with three months until September. But she needs to understand that actions have consequences.

She 19. She can choose to spend her summer as she wish's. She doesn't NEED to live at home anymore. However, you don't need to be supporting someone financially that is insulting to you. Maybe you all need a bit of space to take a breath. The seperation for now could be a good thing. Hopefully she makes the right choices and matures.

[dvg]

Thank you, AnonymousDIL, Donna, CityGirl, and alohamora.  I only hope she comes around eventually... she has said "I'm through with you" before.  I've been to Alanon and have a few people I can trust who I've told about this.  All of them say tough love with the insults, and to let her go and choose what she wants to do.

I am trying to release the guilt.  I did the best I could but that was not good enough.  At best, I have been terribly inadequate as a mother.  But she did get through high school and into a good college, so now it is up to her to do what she will with her opportunities.  I can't do anything to get her back.  I feel so helpless.

I sent her a text that I love her no matter what but don't know if she received it because her half brother, who she's with now, has said he will get her a new phone and throw hers away and that I can "pluck off"... and he means it.  She will probably go along with him so now I have no way to get in touch with her.

Alohamora, if you don't mind my asking, do you have a relationship with your parents now?  She has a half brother who has a great deal of money, and maybe he will pay for her college.  I will always love her but cannot take the emotional roller coaster.  She doesn't have to live here if she hates it here, but if she wants a year round apartment, I think she should get a job to pay for the difference in cost between that and the dorm, which is much cheaper.  If I don't hear from her by the time tuition is due, I'm not going to pay it because if I have no way of knowing if she is in school, why should I?

There is nothing more painful in this life than family.

I am trying to look at it as that, if she cuts me off, then I will be free of the pain of family, and somehow try to get through life without her.  I know she has my phone number memorized so if she ever wants me I will be there.

[lancaster lady]

DVG........I don't  think you have seen the last of your DD .Until she shows up again ,you have to keep busy .I know you feel as if you have lost a limb , but your DD will be back . Even only to collect stuff , then you'll know where and how she is .It won't be easy for her to eat.humble pie but are these guys going to look after her forever ? I think not .....never give up.hope ,but get on with your own life as best you can .

[dvg]

Thanks to everyone here for your caring and support.  There is no heartbreak like that from the biological family.

The good news is that she is back... at least for now, and so is her half brother (my ex-stepson).  He wrecked his car and they are here waiting to get it fixed.  He is sometimes very nice and generous to her, sometimes mean and paranoid, and she vacillates between running off to see her friends in another city and going off with him. 

She does not consider this her home, but if that is the case, all I am offering her is that when she is done with her adventures, I'll get her a bus ticket here and then to college.  I know she wants to spread her wings, which is fine for a 19 year old, but I also don't think I should support her financially if that's what she wants to do.  If she wants to cut the apron strings, it's past time for me to cut the purse strings.  She likes to say "I'm an adult" but she wants to be an adult with unlimited financial support.  Eventually the half brother will get tired of subsidizing her.

He's not a good influence on her.  His mother let him go everywhere and do anything he wanted, even as a child, which is probably why he thinks I'm "obsessive, controlling, intrusive"... when all I want from DD when she's away is a text message every other day or so to let me know she's alive.  Alcohol and drugs are involved with the half brother, and she has threatened to start using drugs too, so I have reason to worry.  One minute she "hates" me and is "done" with me, but then there are times she texts me about how his behavior hurts her.

The big challenge for me is to find my own life... parenting is so all consuming and exhausting.  I have to remember that I have an identity and a life apart from family.  I so understand those who choose not to have a family!  Sometimes I feel like parenting is a guaranteed fail.

[Pooh]

I'm glad dvg that she has come back, and I'm really glad that you have learned to try not and subsidize her lifestyle.

[Ruth]

Welcome and I am new here also.  Reading the posts helps me and I am thankful for the wisdom these women are sharing.  From my tiny storehouse, I can only encourage you to not worst case scenario.  I've been through the mill also with my DS, and he spent ten years in a foreign country without even telling me goodbye, coming home only 3 times during those ten years, I cried a river and begged and wrote pages of letters, all to no avail.  It is amazing nothing happened to him, and I used to imagine the worst, sometimes I grew (out of the blue) just convinced he was going to kill himself, and i did bizarre things sending people over to him to try and 'rescue' him, etc.  I don't even think he's especially angry with me, I think he just doesn't care, and that is acutely painful.  I'm a pretty level headed person except to when it comes to my son, but I'm getting a lot better.  I would roll it over as much as you can and push away catastrophic thoughts when they come into your mind.  pray for their protection and live on doing other things and taking care of the people in your life and yourself.

[justus]

I know it is hard, but you have to let her go if you want her to come back. And, just like when she was 2, you have to set boundaries you can live with. For instance, let her know that when second semester rolls around you will pay only enough money for her to live in a dorm. If that means she won't go back to college, that is her choice as an adult. If she wants to live in an apartment, that is her choice as an adult and that means she has to pay the difference. All of it is her choice, and you do her no favors by protecting her from the consequences of her choices. You are giving her plenty of time to find a job.

This threatening to do drugs, etc... Hate to tell you this, but if she is hanging out with people who do drugs, odds are she is already using. If she isn't, then there is nothing you can do to stop her anyway if she wants to use. Tell her that it is her choice to do drugs, you don't want her to, but you can't stop her and you won't be blackmailed by that sort of a threat.

When my DD went away to college, she all of a sudden hated me. DH said it was her way of separating herself from me. She had to create distance. I drove the 2 1/2 hours to pick her up one holiday and she didn't talk to me at all on the way home. If I tried to say something, she would jerk her head to look away from me. I was livid by the time I got home. I told her she didn't have to like me or to talk to me, but if I was going to go to the trouble of picking her up, then she better treat me with decency and respect or she could find another ride or stay on campus, because I was never going to go through a ride like that again. It was never so bad, but that year, she was a awful to both DH and I.

She just graduated with her MS and has moved home while she looks for a job. We helped her move. The ride home was so very pleasant. We talked, laughed, gossiped, and sang out loud to the radio. It does get better.

The best advise I can advise is to treat her like an adult. Expect her to be responsible for herself and don't protect her from the consequences of her choices. She will grow out of this.

[dvg]

Ruth, I am so sorry you have gone through this with your son.  This has to be the worst pain a parent could ever face.  The fears, the worries, the not knowing if they are even alive.  I remember when she was little what a pure delight she was, how when she was born I never knew I could love someone so much.  Had no problems with her until she met her half brothers.  Now she follows this half brother around like a puppy even after he has made her cry more than once.  It is so very hard when they act like this, but all we can do is love them anyway, even while not liking this behavior.

Justus, I am so happy that it worked out for you and your daughter.  I know from your post on Ruth's thread that you know this from both sides, so I would love to have your advice on this.  My big fear is of estrangement, and I know that as long as she is in college she will have to have some contact with me if only to pay her rent and tuition.  I don't know what to do in terms of letting her go.  I know she can go where she wants, but all I want when she does is a text every other day or so to let me know she is OK.  When she was away at college and I knew she was safe, sometimes 3 or 4 days would go by, and that was fine, as I know she wanted her space.  We did exchange emails, texts, and phone calls regularly.  We seem to have a dynamic of either getting along well or not at all. 

I know she's tried drugs and is probably doing them now.  She has been driving the half brother all over the place while he gets his car fixed, and is asking me for gas money.  My feeling is that if I'm letting them borrow my car, they should pay for the gas.  Tonight she wanted my car and as she was leaving, she said they might stay out all night.  I didn't confront her because if I did, the half brother would storm off and she would follow him.  I don't want my car kept out all night.  When he has his, they can do what they want. 

I've told her that there is no money for an apartment next year and if she follows through on her threat to drop out of college, that is her adult decision.  My fear is that if I demand she treat me with decency and respect that she'll walk out of my life forever, so I wind up being a doormat, and I have to admit, I feel used.  I so hope you're right and that she will grow out of this.

I worry about her so much because there is addiction in the family.  I've been there, but left all that behind before I got pregnant.  She doesn't know, and I hope that other family members don't tell her.  Don't know if I should or not. I feel like such a failure as a parent. 

I tried my best but maybe it wasn't good enough.   For all the talk in our society about the joys of family life, the truth is that for me there is nothing more painful than family relationships.  It helps so much to know I'm not alone.

[Ruth]

DVG, trust me I feel you pain re. 'afraid to challenge her for respect etc. as she might not come back to me'.  I lived that nightmare a lot of years and I tell you I think this has more than anything precipitated my son's estrangement.  My refusal to demand respect for myself has only exacerbated his refusal to respect me, and my DD corroborates this.  My DS is strong willed and defiant, and always was, and due to trying to raise a kid who was always in your face and adept at making you feel like you are worthless overall caused me to make a lot of mistakes, in pushing back too  hard.  but I am learning one thing I believe about this which is that we have to respect ourselves and gently reaffirm to our children that we are respectable and will be respected.  Aside from that, I honestly do believe the mother/daughter bond is so strong that its rarely permanently broken.  Myself, I believe I would not loan cars, etc., nor pay for anything other than education if the child is a minor and then only if the grades are up to par and if I could afford it.  My DS is over 30 and still makes remarks at times that I should be paying for college.  He also never asked me to pay for college, (he has grants, etc. also) but his attitude is that I should just pony up and send lavish things in return for nothing, no contact or gratitude, and then even when I have done this it is never enough, and the 'you never did anything for me' attitude doesn't change.  so I'm changing instead.  I decided I won't stop communicating with my estranged DS, but it will be less often and just a generic Hi as if nothing had ever happened,  I believe this works for him.  I have used the opposite type of communication with him, the nurturing - closeness - supportive type which my DD loves and receives from me with open arms, but I can see now that he hates this and pushes me away.  Yesterday I wrote a brief email about an animal holistic care book I'm reading, not even saying hello or goodbye.  As you become more comfortable in your own skin and the fog lifts, you'll start detaching from your DD and I believe this will be the cord of love that ultimately pulls your child back.

[justus]

I know that line you feel you are walking because I used to walk it. We are a blended family, and when one of us started walking it with our own child, the step-parent would give a reality check. You, my dear, need a reality check. You are being used and you are allowing yourself to be used. It is not unreasonable to expect your car to be home even if your DD is not. She isn't going to cut you off over something stupid like this. Her half-brother may push her to do so, but in time she will know that you were right and she was wrong.

My DS threatened to quit school when he was 18. DH told him that he better have a job before he did that because if he was adult enough to quit HS, then he would be treated like an adult. Adults pay rent and they get kicked out if they don't pay rent. He stayed in school. I could never have told him that, but I have done similar things with SD.

It really is time to set boundaries. The way I approached it with my kids was that it is what you would expect from a room mate. You wouldn't borrow your room mate's car and then expect your room mate to pay for the gas or to let you keep it out all night. She knows she is being unreasonable, she knows she is using you and she is doing it because she can and she is loosing respect for you as she does so, just like you are loosing respect for yourself as you allow her to use you. So, set those boundaries and stick to them. Lay them them out, tell her how you are feeling and that you simply cannot live like this anymore. If she wants to be treated like an adult, she has to behave like an adult, and you are going to start treating her like one. Adults get jobs, adults pay rent, adults fill up the gas tank, adults don't keep the car out all night, and adults treat the people they live with with respect and courtesy or they get kicked out. Be fair and loving, but don't be a doormat. If you are, she will never cut you off, but she will use the fear that she will to use you for the rest of your life. By allowing her to do this you are keeping her from growing up.

My DS decided that as soon as he graduated from HS, he was moving to the East Coast to live with his uncle and go to school there. The last day he was here, he and DD argued, then he started treating me with disrespect. The way he talked to me was awful. He wasn't supposed to leave for a couple of days, but I made him leave then. I told him I would not ever tolerate being treated like that no matter how old he got or how grown up he thought he was. He left, told everyone a pack of lies to get sympathy then called me the next day to apologize. He found out at his Uncle's house that everything I ever told him was true. After coming very close to being kicked out of his Uncle's house, he pulled his head out of his behind and at 22 is doing very well for himself. I am quite proud of him. We talk every couple of weeks and the calls usually last at least an hour. We use Facebook as "proof of life" as another poster put it.

She is acting like a brat right now and because she is blackmailing you, there are no real consequences. Stop acting out of fear and start acting in the best interests of your DD. She needs consequences and she needs to know that she cannot use you. If you keep rescuing her, she will never learn what it is to be an adult.

Yes, you should tell her about the history of addiction. I grew up in a family full of secrets. For instance, I didn't find out that my OS was not my full sister until I was in my mid 20s. I felt so betrayed and angry with my Ps for keeping such key piece of my life a secret. Everyone else knew but me and my siblings. There was addiction in my family, too. We either are drunks, or we marry them. Knowing about that addiction issue made me and my siblings very careful about using both drugs and alcohol.

Let her know about her families history, but don't get preachy. Just tell her that you think she is old enough to know now that she is an adult and that you hope she will be careful so she doesn't repeat the past.

You can only control yourself. If she is going to leave you, she is going to leave you no matter how much money you throw at her or how much you let her use you. Set reasonable boundaries with her and her brother. Don't welcome him in your house if he is going to be abusive to you. The other thing is don't say one bad word about him to your DD. Let her figure out on her own that he is using her and you through her. Listen to her cry about him, and don't say a word. When she asks for advice, put it right back on her. Tell her he will treat her like this for as long as she lets him, so what does she want to do about it?

[dvg]

Ruth and Justus, thank you so much.  Ruth, I think I will try a different method of communicating with her, more matter of fact.  She is very stubborn and strong willed, and does not want to listen.  She keeps pushing the boundaries, and I keep giving in because of the fear of estrangement.  She is very adept at making me feel worthless, all the "I hate you" and "I'm through with you" but when she needs something, she does not hesitate to ask.  I so hope you're right that our mother-daughter bond is too strong to be broken.

Justus, thank you for taking the time to write that wise and thoughtful reply.  I am taking your words to heart, and yes, I really needed a reality check!  The only other real adult here is my mother, who is so hurt by DD's behavior and attitude that she talks (only to me, never to her) about "divorcing herself emotionally" from DD.  She's devastated by the language and hurtful words, but I think eventually she will forgive her.

I really like what you said about her treating my car as she would a roommate's car.  When she gets back, I'll tell her exactly that - yes, you are an adult and you can go where you want, when you want, and when your brother has his car back of course you will be free to do that, but this is my car.  I'm going to use that line about expecting the car to be here at night even if she is not, and tell her how when adults borrow a car, they put gas in it and return it at a prearranged time (and that's what I've done whenever I've borrowed a car, and what I expect when I lent it to a friend).  She wants to be accorded the freedom of an adult, but given everything like a child, and I have to practice tough love and tell her she can't have it both ways.  I've already given her money for gas and enough is enough.  I could tell them that f they want to stay out all night tonight, they are free to call a cab.

Part of her problem with me is what her half brother tells her.  He's said that I'm obsessive, controlling, and intrusive.  His frame of reference is a mother who abused and neglected him to the point he was put in foster care, and who let him drop out of school and go wherever he wanted when he was 14.  He has no idea of any other sort of parenting.

You're right, if he gets angry and storms off, or if he just leaves, and she decides to go with him, I'll have to let her go.  I'll also let him subsidize her, as I am not going to send her any money when she's gone - except for a bus ticket home, and I've told her that. 

I'll have to find the right time to tell her about the history of addiction.  She also will know that it was all before I got pregnant.  Do you think it would be best to tell her when her brother is not around?  I know that she has tried drugs, because she told me that she had (sometimes she does confide in me), and I can also tell that he's using again.  Do you think I should say something to him, too?  I helped him get off them last year, and he has even admitted that since he met me I have always been there for him. If so, I would come from the perspective of care and concern, and leave the way open for him to deny it if that's his choice by saying if I'm wrong, and I hope I am, I apologize in advance. 

You're right, I should not tolerate being treated so disrespectfully.  She knows I won't kick her out, but I can always walk away from her when she gets nasty - and I guess I should never say never about kicking her out.  I could say she has to leave, but when she is ready to treat me and my mother respectfully, the door is always open.

The time she said her brother was being so mean to her and she was "through" with him, all I said was I'm sorry he's treating you this way and that drugs change people - nothing negative about him as a person.  So I guess that's the one thing I've been doing right! 

I'm so glad it worked out with you and your DS.  It sounds like you have a really good relationship.

[Ruth]

I'll just add this dvg and I say this with all the humility in the world just be careful not to overcorrect (I did) because it is natural to swing too far in the other direction and make things worse so I hope the blunders I did I can help you not to make the same mistake.  I started taking appropriate boundaries but communicated it with too much 'power' which only made my defiant ds more distant.  I am working at just being matter of fact and grossly impersonal because I've got a lot of rebuilding to do.  I have lots of unanswered questions but I'll just have to feel it out as I go along:  do I allow crude remarks if he ever comes back to my home?  do I allow him to smoke pot here?  I don't know totally how to set limits with a 30 yr old and its nuts that I have to I can't imagine my mother ever having to confront such a topic, but I pray for the grace to know what to do and do it better if the opportunity arises. 

[justus]

Ruth, about the pot thing, I have a rule that nothing illegal goes on in my house. If anyone brings illegal substances into my home, it is an immediate kick out. This is because if the police are called, it impacts me and they have no right to put me in that position. It is your house, your rules apply.

BTW, if pot were legal, I would have no problem with it. I think it should be legal, but until it is, it won't be in my home.

[Rose799]

Hi Ruth & welcome to WWU,

You've received a lot of good advice here.  Wouldn't it be nice to bottle up these gals & take home with you?     Wish I'd found Luise' site a LOT sooner, when dd was your dd's age.  My advice would be to set your boundaries now, before gc enter the picture.  It won't get any easier, trust me.