From Child Relationship to Adult Relationship

[AnonymousDIL]

My SisIL (DB's wife) is one of those people who is always right.  Even if she changes her mind from what she was doing and does the COMPLETE opposite, she's STILL right.  Once she even argued with me over how much her son weighed when he was born (and *I* was right!).

But we want a relationship with my brother and my niece and nephew so we put up with her.  We let her talk and we don't pick a fight with her over the outrageous things she says.  We know that if we cause a fight with her, then she can make it impossible for us to see my brother and the DN's, without batting an eyelash.   So we just go on the "yeah yeah whatever" path.  We let her talk and we don't comment about it.  "Is that so?"

I know your DB tries to counsel you on financial matters, so, let him talk, "uh huh ... uh huh, oh well, we'll think about it".

Just remember that he can say whatever he wants, but you don't have to follow it!

I have that "Yeah whatever" approach (DH apparently does not loll and neither do DB/SIL). I used to argue with my brother, but now I let it go. He is like your SIL and thinks he is always right on every subject. *eyeroll* lol

[Sassy]

Hi Anon. Yours is the DB who called or emailed your and DH's friends, and told them all DH was a liar,  because one time when people were telling animal stories, DH shared that he once drove by a bear in the mountains of Pennsylvania  (where bears live) ?

[AnonymousDIL]

Have you asked your brother why he is upset?  If he won't tell you falt out there is nothing you can do to change.  You can think of everything you think might have gone wrong but that might not be it at all.  It could be something you are unware you did.  Or maybe the simple answers is you did nothing at all and your brother is just well being a jerk. 

If they don't want to talk about it or explain then its not my problem its theirs and they need to fix it not me.  The thing is if he does answer make sure you are a. ready to hear it and b. That you listen to what he is saying.

The "jerk" thing.... I really try to see the best in people. I am trying to give him the benefit of the doubt on this one-- that I did something sooo unmentionable that offended them to the very core of their being. But, I have asked him in the past and he always says "Nothing." and stupid stuff like that. DH and I had a loooooooooooong talk about it last night and we both came to the same conclusion that he is just a jerk. 

So, it would seem that the problem is theirs and that there is nothing that I can do to fix it. Soooo, have things worked out with your friend? Are you friends again? I'm hoping so because it will give me hope that things will work out with DB.

Ready to hear it.... I'd like to think I'm ready, but I'm just not sure. I'm so hurt because this has seemingly come from nowhere. I've tried to think what I did or could have done differently, but am at a complete loss. Last Oct? DB told me that he didn't like me complaining to him about my IL's. Well, I did not complain to him again. Soooo, I view that as a moot point and not worthy of a cut-off because I completely changed my behavior. I knew it bothered him so I stopped. DB also claimed that DH is a racist (he is NOT by any means, he just isn't a fan of the president). Well, DH stopped any and all comments that could in any way shape or form be construed as racist. (This was over a year ago so once again moot point in my eyes).

DH thinks they just wanted some lame excuse to cut us off so we wouldn't go with them to OC this year. "WE"-- DB/SIL/DH/I/Few other friends-- have been taking an annual trip to OC since DH and I first got together. Thing is, even if we had been invited this year or wanted to go, we couldn't because DH is in school on the weekends that he can't miss.

I'd really like to think that my brother isn't a jerk, but it really seems like he is.

[AnonymousDIL]

Hi Anon. Yours is the DB who called or emailed your and DH's friends, and told them all DH was a liar,  because one time when people were telling animal stories, DH shared that he once drove by a bear in the mountains of Pennsylvania  (where bears live) ?

Yep, he's the one. He also made a few other claims that DH said "xxx" and I thought "OMG! DH is a jerk!" I ask the friend that "xxx" was supposedly said to and she wanted to know what I was talking about. My DB expects me to believe everything he says to me no matter what. If there is a way to verify (another friend involved), I will always find out both sides before passing judegment.

My DB is the opposite. First person to share the story must be the one telling the truth. Thing is, there are different "shades" of the truth. One person will remember something one way and another will remember it another way. The Actual 100% Beyond a Shadow of a Doubt Truth is somewhere in the middle.

[SassyDI]

We are facebook friends if you call that working it out.  She added me trying to bebest friend me and nope it didn't work.  By that point my DD was 2 and we had been both married for 6 years and after 6 years I was over it.  I don't dislike her but I don't have the feeling of friendship for her that I use to.  So sorry can't give you that happily ever after.

[SassyDI]

Hi Anon. Yours is the DB who called or emailed your and DH's friends, and told them all DH was a liar,  because one time when people were telling animal stories, DH shared that he once drove by a bear in the mountains of Pennsylvania  (where bears live) ?

Yep, he's the one. He also made a few other claims that DH said "xxx" and I thought "OMG! DH is a jerk!" I ask the friend that "xxx" was supposedly said to and she wanted to know what I was talking about. My DB expects me to believe everything he says to me no matter what. If there is a way to verify (another friend involved), I will always find out both sides before passing judegment.

My DB is the opposite. First person to share the story must be the one telling the truth. Thing is, there are different "shades" of the truth. One person will remember something one way and another will remember it another way. The Actual 100% Beyond a Shadow of a Doubt Truth is somewhere in the middle.

And let me guess when you confronted him about the lie he got all mad that you asked the friend.

[pam1]

Adil, I doubt they hate you.  I think since he said it is causing issues between his wife and him, there may be some boundary crossing neither know how to deal with.  It doesn't mean they won't admit they are wrong, rather they are in a similar boat as you -- confused.

If you went to them about an Ex that was hurtful, I think an older brother would be suspicious of any other significant other.  Is it possible you tell DB/SIL a little too much?  I gather when he said they don't want to hear about your ILs that maybe they feel a little put upon with hearing some of these issues.  It might feel like a burden to them.

I know my friends don't want to hear me ranting about my ILs, they like hearing the amusing stuff though lol.

[AnonymousDIL]

Dang! I'm still their FB friend, but I've blocked their statuses from coming up in my news feed so I don't have to read SIL's passive agressive comments... Well, I'll still hope. DH stilll has hope. thinks it is going to take a few years though.

Actually, I never confronted DB about his lie. As far as I know, he has no idea that I found out. I caught SIL in a similar lie. She told me a color choice was my mom's idea. I asked mom "Aren't you concerned that the girls in cream and the guys in white might make it look washed out?" She told me "That's what SIL wants."... I never confronted SIL about her lie either. While Honesty is important to me, I don't feel the need to "out" the liar. I just don't believe 100% of everything anyone tells me.

[AnonymousDIL]

Adil, I doubt they hate you.  I think since he said it is causing issues between his wife and him, there may be some boundary crossing neither know how to deal with.  It doesn't mean they won't admit they are wrong, rather they are in a similar boat as you -- confused.

If you went to them about an Ex that was hurtful, I think an older brother would be suspicious of any other significant other.  Is it possible you tell DB/SIL a little too much?  I gather when he said they don't want to hear about your ILs that maybe they feel a little put upon with hearing some of these issues.  It might feel like a burden to them.

I know my friends don't want to hear me ranting about my ILs, they like hearing the amusing stuff though lol.

I know now that I definitely don't tell DB/SIL too much. I don't talk to them about DH at all. Learned my lesson on that one. I didn't think it was an issue since BOTH of them complained about the other to me, but it was apparently an issue for them so they haven't heard a single thing about DH since last September.

I haven't "ranted" about my IL's anywhere around them since last October. I did mention at a game night they came to a funny remark DH's sister made "I mean, everything in their house is stolen!" I thought it was the funniest thing that I've ever heard and so did everyone, BUT DB/SIL.

And once again, SIL's family was drug through the mud for us for a year and a half while DB/SIL had cut them off. So, I didn't see it as an issue. (We incidentally were caught in the middle of that war because we are good friends with SIL's family) My DB really seems to have a HUGE issue with double standards. He can do whatever he pleases, but I'm not allowed.

[pam1]

Too too too much drama.

I think once you get to a certain age, you really can't compare siblings.  "Why does he get to that and I don't?"  It's useless and frustrating b/c neither of you are going to change the other, you are both grown ups.

I'm guessing he is at a loss as you are in changing this dynamic in your relationship.  It might help to pick up a modern etiquette guide?  I really think that's a good portion of your issues with him Adil.

I doubt he hates you and cares about you a great deal, that maybe why his reaction seems extreme to you.

[AnonymousDIL]

I'm guessing he is at a loss as you are in changing this dynamic in your relationship.  It might help to pick up a modern etiquette guide?  I really think that's a good portion of your issues with him Adil.

I don't understand. I'm changing the dynamic of the relationship because... I was the last to get married? ... I don't talk to him like I used to (per his request)? ... We'd like a relationship as a couple?

Do you think deep down he would have preferred I didn't get married at all because he doesn't like change?

I had a VERY hard time when he got married. We were VERY close. I'm VERY shy. All my friends were his friends. We did everything together-- bowling, skating, game nights. I had 0 friends apart from him. He started dating SIL my junior year in college. I lived on campus that semester. He had just graduated and I was completely alone (my roommate was his newly dumped ex-gf. Awkward!). It was a really bad time for me. I got up went to class, went to my room, did homework, slept. I didn't like to eat in the dining hall because I didn't have anyone to sit with (roomie wanted nothing to do with the sister of the guy who dumped her). I NEEDED my brother very much. Too much. (But I actually didn't see him at all that semester or the next beyond a few minutes in passing and when he came down for my b-day which was a few weeks before he met SIL). Do you think he misses that I don't need him anymore at the same time hating how much I did need him?

[pam1]

I'm not him so I can only tell you what I would think...

Needing a sibling is too much for anyone.  It's a lot of pressure, not having friends apart from your sibling and your joint circle of friends probably hasn't helped.  I think you may be inadvertently relying on him too much, in a way a grown sibling can't handle. 

I think it has nothing to do with your marriage; it's a long held dynamic that is probably not very healthy for either of you.  I think you're underestimating the effect this dynamic could have on him and his marriage.  When he told you he felt as if you interfered with his first year of marriage that's not something said lightly by most people, imo.  He truly felt that way and in saying it and after apologies from you, it's still isn't an easy thing for a newly married couple to just shrug away.  I've noticed you say they should get over it or people shouldn't let words get to them quite a bit, imo it comes across as trying to control another persons reaction.  They may feel that this is the dynamic they have with you and don't know how to change it.

I don't think it's a case of where one side is bad and the other is good, it's much more complicated than that.  You talk about him a lot so I gather you care about him quite a bit but you haven't seemed to be able to accept how his personality really is.  It's difficult for anyone to be in this kind of dynamic.

[AnonymousDIL]

Soooooo, you think the "pressure" of interference was there for them, even if I wasn't actually there because he worried about me too much?

I do have friends apart him now. I maintain friendships with our joint group of friends from college. I'm not friends with most of "their" friends now. For the first time in 25 years we lead completely separate lives. Sooooo, my relationship with him was more of a parasitic one and was unhealthy for him--even though I had pulled away considerably when he met SIL.

Sooooooo, even though it breaks my heart to say it, I shouldn't try to mend the relationship because it was unhealthy (I don't want it to be the way it was, just want them to come to game nights) and we haven't figured out how to have a healthy relationship at this point on either end. He really is much better off without me in his life. 

[pam1]

Soooooo, you think the "pressure" of interference was there for them, even if I wasn't actually there because he worried about me too much?

I do have friends apart him now. I maintain friendships with our joint group of friends from college. I'm not friends with most of "their" friends now. For the first time in 25 years we lead completely separate lives. Sooooo, my relationship with him was more of a parasitic one and was unhealthy for him--even though I had pulled away considerably when he met SIL.

Sooooooo, even though it breaks my heart to say it, I shouldn't try to mend the relationship because it was unhealthy (I don't want it to be the way it was, just want them to come to game nights) and we haven't figured out how to have a healthy relationship at this point on either end. He really is much better off without me in his life. 

Nah, that's a little dramatic.  Relationships ebb and flow.  The key to maintaining them is flexibility.  I have childhood friends that we speak to often and then kind of slow down at different times in our life, marriages being one. 

He probably just needs some space.

[Sassy]

Sooooooo, even though it breaks my heart to say it, I shouldn't try to mend the relationship because it was unhealthy (I don't want it to be the way it was, just want them to come to game nights) and we haven't figured out how to have a healthy relationship at this point on either end. He really is much better off without me in his life.

DB and SIL don't like game night.  That's why they don't (often) come to game night.  He's decided he's better off right now, without game night in his life.   You've said they told you they don't like your friends.  You've observed they don't find the same stuff funny.  DB and SIL not coming to game night is not Anon punishment, it's DB personal preference.  You're feeling punished or abandoned because you want that outcome (google "letting go of attachment to outcomes") and not getting it. To you, it's like he's witholding something.  But he's doing something for himself, not to you.   Can you respect he knows what's right for him?  I can say with absolute certainty: Not coming to game night doesn't = hate Anon. 

I meant how do you deal with the whole "they hate me and I don't know why?"

Assumptions. You certainly don't know they hate you.  I highly doubt they hate you.  Space (that elbow room) is good for growth.  Make the most of it.  You can make the most of it by focusing on you and not him during it.  Every time your thoughts wander to him, catch yourself, calm yourself, and bring it back to you.

He also thinks that he and wifey have never ever done anything wrong. I know that I'm not perfect and know that I must have done Something to make them act this way.

You must have done something to make them act this way?  You/me/anyone can't know what they think.  Assumptions. Because you think they think they're perfect, or, because they act as if they think they're perfect, does not mean they're perfect.  They act this way because it's what is working for them right now.  If telling a bear story sets off a spate of he's lying emails, it does not mean you did something other than tell a bear story.  (Secret: People who act like they think they're perfect often are extra certain they're not, and are trying to hide and compensate for it.)

There's a huge long dysfunctional history between you and DB (the school scenario was like reading a story of an elderly widowed woman who lost her spouse; it was not functional).  You've both grown since then.  There's a dynamic with each of your spouses thrown in the mix.  There's extra tension on top from DB's (delusiony) hysterics and your habit of assuming the worst.  Habits can be broken. Taking a breather, elbow room, space is the healthiest thing right now.  The future does not exist.  Stay in the now.  Stay in the space you're actually in.

We can practice catching the myriad of Assumptions as they're created (you could start by looking for them when others make them, which is what I am doing). We can recognize, acknowledge how little we actually know.  That way we can avoid the distress caused by reacting to false or invented thoughts, such as "they hate me."