Also new and also without my daughter

[overwhelmed123]

Actually Pen...now that I'm thinking about it...you're talking about the kids who are detaching for no real legitimate reason.  I don't know about them.  I'd like to think that they are capable of loving, but somehow their wires are temporarily crossed.

[softwillow]

But to the kids who are seeming to detach for no reason- to them it is valid, I think.  While it's hard to think that- I'm trying very hard to value their feelings just as I do my own.  In the end though- I really don't believe in or like the insensitive way some of the kids deal with this.  The pushing away is way too much and too hard.  Also- Typo alert! Besides the other misspellings-   when I wrote 'send fists and cards'- I meant to write that I send 'gifts and cards.'  Kind of funny- fists?  Gee- I wonder if I had some hidden feelings in there! ha! No- not really- I do have some strong feelings but no- I didn't mean to send 'fists.'  Gifts and cards- not fists- I dislike abuse or violence of any kind!  Please forgive my typo!

[SassyDI]

Actually Pen...now that I'm thinking about it...you're talking about the kids who are detaching for no real legitimate reason.  I don't know about them.  I'd like to think that they are capable of loving, but somehow their wires are temporarily crossed.

Isn't a legitimate reason in the eye of the beholder.  What seems legitimate to you may not to me and reverse that. 

[overwhelmed123]

Yes, I don't disagree with you.  But I think in Pen's situation...no normal, reasonable person would detach from her like her DS has. 

But like I said, I don't disagree with you.  You do have a point.  And I do know my DH's mom has told people she has absolutely no idea why he's "abandoned" her and she's baffled by the whole thing because she doesn't know what she's done, which I know is a lie because he's talked to her many times about it before taking a time out.  So I know there are two sides to every story... but there are still those stories where there truly is no legitimate reason.  Maybe legitimate to the person, but not really.

[luise.volta]

What others do makes sense to them. We often have to let go of its making sense to us. Sending love...

[SassyDI]

Yes, I don't disagree with you.  But I think in Pen's situation...no normal, reasonable person would detach from her like her DS has. 

But like I said, I don't disagree with you.  You do have a point.  And I do know my DH's mom has told people she has absolutely no idea why he's "abandoned" her and she's baffled by the whole thing because she doesn't know what she's done, which I know is a lie because he's talked to her many times about it before taking a time out.  So I know there are two sides to every story... but there are still those stories where there truly is no legitimate reason.  Maybe legitimate to the person, but not really.

DH's dad and wife pull the same thing all the time.  She says to DH (she use to say it to me but I stopped talking to her) why doesn't SassyDI like me."  When DH explains she says oh thats not it or that is not a good enough reason.  I don't need approval from someone else on what is a good and not a good reason.  But maybe there is more to it and maybe Pen no offense maybe your missing something that you just don't see.  And maybe your son isn't being honest with you either and not telling you the real reason.(which isn't right because you can't change what you don't knowthat is if its something you can change. ).  The one thing I know about DH and I at least we are always upfront and our stories never change FIL and his wife there stories change from day to day.

[overwhelmed123]

All I was saying was that I agree with her, I don't think the love vanishes just because there is detachment.

[AnonymousDIL]

It is impossible to know why people cut us off. Yes, they always justify something in their own minds My DB says that DH is a compulsive liar--which he's not-- and that's why they have cut us off. My DB claims that he and his wife never ever lie (I have caught them in a LOT, but it isn't a deal-breaker for me). DB has difficulty accepting the fact that just because he hasn't had a certain experience (DH has been a truck driver, went on tour with several Christian bands, did concerts for Alabama, The Beach Boys, etc.; was a life guard for the Y; worked as a photographer for Paul Mitchell---- all of these things he has photos of, with band etc.) BUT since my brother hasn't done these things he states that DH is lying and needs to be cut off. Sooooooooooo, NO DB is not at all correct in cutting us off for this, but in his own mind he is. I've learned that just because you think you are right, that doesn't mean that you are. This is probably why I over-analyze things to death! lol I need to find the correct answer to the infernal question WHY?

[Pen]

Yes, I don't disagree with you.  But I think in Pen's situation...no normal, reasonable person would detach from her like her DS has. 

But like I said, I don't disagree with you.  You do have a point.  And I do know my DH's mom has told people she has absolutely no idea why he's "abandoned" her and she's baffled by the whole thing because she doesn't know what she's done, which I know is a lie because he's talked to her many times about it before taking a time out.  So I know there are two sides to every story... but there are still those stories where there truly is no legitimate reason.  Maybe legitimate to the person, but not really.

My DS hasn't detached from us. I'm sorry if I didn't make that clear. He does what he can within the confines of his DIL-managed social schedule, and she is the one who doesn't like us.

My DF, however, married SM and immediately let us go. I think DF and I love each other but we don't particularly like each other. We've been somewhat a disappointment to each other, I think. Now that I see that, I'm less hurt by his rejection.

[Rose799]

When I was much younger, I moved 3000 miles away from my parents, we wrote regularly and I did travel to see them a couple of times, but my dm told me I broke her heart.  After 20 years she moved closer to me, and we had a regular relationship then, I saw her every week, spoke 2-3 times on the phone, and every day as she got older, and did as much as I could for her when she got sick and passed away.   When my odd started treating me badly, I felt like I was getting "paid back" for leaving my mother, and I still have guilty feelings about this, although my dm and I were never estranged, always kept in touch.    My odd has said (before this total estrangement) that she and I had the same kind of relationship as I did with my mother. 

There is no logic in believing you're being punished for moving away from your dm, Jill.  Yes, it broke your mother's heart to see you go.  But purposely going for the sake of hurting your mother is altogether different.  By the way, if you & odd had the same kind of relationship as you did with your dm, as she claimed, she'd be there helping you today...  Why is it that we mothers tell our dc not to believe everything they're told, yet we believe everything our dc tell us?

[softwillow]

You make a couple of really good points, Rose.   And Jill- maybe your daughter will be helping you in your later years- who knows!  It's hard to see that things may change when we're in the midst of it-but they really can.  I thought I would never get through some of the tough teenage years and years after that when my sons stopped talking to me, too.  But here we are now talking and growing.  Nothing is contant in life except change- as 'they' say.

[Rose799]

NO DB is not at all correct in cutting us off for this, but in his own mind he is.

And sometimes people just won't admit the truth.     

[AnonymousDIL]

And sometimes people just won't admit the truth.   

I'll admit that's the truth, Rose! lol

[Pooh]

I can probably create a reason for anything I do if I choose to live that way.  I could also justify any decision I make to fit my agenda. I choose to live my life with honesty and integrity.

You can't make others live that way.  They make their own choices.

[Donna]

Jill and Softwillow:
I believe I have spent hours reading, and thinking and one important thing I have learned in life, is what is behind you is like concrete, cement, its done, it's set, it is only what is ahead of you that is can be formed is usable, and boils down to what we have left.  Jill, I wrote more last night and brought my mother into it, she is still living, and due to the systemic issues (set in cement) I buried her 4 years ago.  I can not fathom judgment nor punishment for this.  We all have situations that render different and unusual results.  For your daughter SoftWillow, I will share that if I called, I would get this dozy voice that would say, I'll email you, or the dozy voice, saying email me from my dd.  To which of course I never ever got a reply.  However, whenever she called and needed something, I would respond immediately.  My DS previously was a delight, however I noted the last year, changes; which I attributed to his growth and distance and his being proud of being his own person.  I did not know what was happening, so I would never have contemplated the results.  Now the results are in cement, and there is only one way to go and that is forward.  You are correct about buttons, they know the buttons, and the only way is to change the buttons and if that means it's going to be my decision to change the buttons, then it is, and unless they change there will be no longer any wasted time in the future.  Your lives are precious, if we were bad mothers in any way, it was that we were far too good and far too kind and far to forgiving for far to long.  We all deserve a hug, and Jill your mom is watching you knowing your depth of love for her, and one day mine will be watching me, and will know my depth of love for her, as she rewinds her life, she will realize the one child who did not hurt her, take her money, or yell at her.   My comment on these children that are detaching is that they have issues that they don't want to share, they have their own fears and shame, for us forgiveness is our tool, and changing ourselves, our hot spots, and our reactions is the best we can do for not only ourselves, but also for them.  If I could not change it for my own children, and I did so try so hard, then perhaps it was a journey that will when I leave this earth become a lesson to them, that they may learn at that point.  We don't know we just go onwards, and do our best with what we have.  Hugs to all when the sun shines, let it kiss your face, and let the soft wind blow kindness your way. d