Also new and also without my daughter

[overwhelmed123]

Hi softwillow, and welcome! 

I just wanted to echo what catchingup posted.  It is so, so, so true.  Adult children don't want to feel like they have the pressure of making you happy in life (not saying she does- just that it sounds like she feels she does for some reason).  Sounds like you are on the right track to finding that casual happy medium.  GL- we are glad you're here!

[softwillow]

LancasterLady-No- she did not instigate the visit- I did.  I drove 375 miles one way to see her and her family and stayed in a hotel.  It was a very nice visit but a learning one and I won't make the mistake again of getting my hopes up again too much.  She is very self-absorbed right now- didn't used to be that way.  I'm proud of her in that she has made a nice life for herself-but she has trouble relating to other's feelings.  I did not hear from her on Mother's Day, as hoped.  You say if I see her- to make it on my terms.  Easier said than done- she does not consider my feelings, really.  She's very intelligent- but is not to a place where she can even grasp the basics of what I try to convey to her on the importance of communication, especially if people have had trouble.  It took me 2 1/2 years to even be able to see her.  It's a step.  This is going to take years- and ultimately- it will be up to her to carry her side of the relationship if it is to be a rewarding one for both of us.  Because it can be- but only if she also wants it.  It is one-sided now- and she is either unaware of her reasons for shutting me out-or chooses not to share them.  She has a need to control her emotions, she cannot talk about the past, has had many anxiety attacks over the last couple years- and I don't want to push her.  Which is why I told her take your time when she said she would be calling me.  I go gently.........I must step lightly or she will flee again.  She must feel safe with me before she comes closer.  Overwhelmed- she is not obligated to make me happy- I must be the one to do that.    I feel she has a need to shut out things from the pain in her past- and that is not hard to understand-there has been too much of it for all of us.  She is trying to make a life for herself without that pain in the best way she knows how-and that is to have little contact with us.  But- I'm sure she knows that I love her dearly- and will always be here if she ever chooses to really allow me into her life on both our terms.  Right now- it is only on hers.  So- what I do is take care of myself and make sure I don't lose my dignity and sense of self- I must be strong or it would destroy me.

[softwillow]

And thank you all for your support and advice.  Much appreciated and it has helped me immensely this weekend.  Without it I may have been more upset at not receiving a M. Day call from my daughter.  I love my kids so much.  Thank you for taking the time to think about my posts. 

[pam1]

Softwillow, thanks for the thanks

We try to lighten the mood a lot here, check out the grab bag

[Pen]

SW, I haven't welcomed you yet. Glad you found us, sad you need us, but it sounds as if you're on your way to taking care of yourself and moving past this. Not that any of us will ever forget the adult children we love, but that we will make our lives the best we can in spite of being treated less than kindly by them. For me it's two forward, one back sometimes, but with the help and support of WWU I'm mostly going forward. Hurrah for us!

[Pooh]

Welcome softwillow and I'm so sorry about all your sadness.  You have a great attitude and sounds like volunteer work to keep you busy.  It's always great to help others when we ourselves are feeling helpless.

Stick around and continue reading.  You will fit in here well.

[softwillow]

Thanks, Pen and Pooh(gotta love these names!!)---yes, I guess I'm doing better now with coping with this.  I miss her but can't make her like me-   I like me- that's what counts.  My other kids like me and appreciate me, too.  I'm just thankful I have a healthy relationship with the others.  I've done all that is possible to improve this situation with her- but ultimately- she has to want that improvement- and for the time being- she doesn't.  My counselor says I am very healthy, wise, have great ideas and have dedicated myself towards having a healthier environment for my kids than I had- but that I have one family in my head that doesn't match the family I actually have. I'm still trying to adjust myself to reality...hahaha... I'll get there.  I just need to stop obsessing on how to 'fix' it- I can't.  That's just the deal.  It's not the end of the world, I guess-but I won't ever give up on my kids.  I'm happy that her ex lets me talk to their mutual child about once a month and he loves me to pieces.  The child she had with her new husband, I have only met once.  He doesn't really know me.  Everything changed when she married the new guy.  She distances herself from her family of origin and seems to have lost any softness towards anyone other than her immediate family.  It's sad, but I think it reminds her of all the pain we've all experienced.  My other kids have grown closer to me- her- more distant.  We all have ways of coping. This is hers-

[holliberri]

I have one family in my head that doesn't match the family I actually have.

Man, I have to say Willow, this hit home. I imagine it probably does for a lot of us. I feel like writing this down and putting it on my bathroom mirror. 

[Pen]

That is a great line, for sure. I also like SW's line, "I miss her but can't make her like me."

Last night I was thinking about how it is possible to fiercely love someone but not like them. I have a feeling a lot of our detached adult children do love us but may not particularly like us for one reason or another. I know there are moms here who have expressed those feelings about their adult children.

[holliberri]

My mom hasn't talked to her parents since.....2007.  (Few bump-ins here and there, nothing I would consider meangingful).

She tells me all the time she loves them.

A little anecdotal evidence to prove our theory. LOL.

I really do believe most estranged kids would say the same thing.

[softwillow]

Interesting- I haven't seen my parents, either- for a good couple of years.  Every time I talk to my mother/father- they end up angry at me for just being myself or opening up with an observation or a feeling.  I can't please them.  I love them dearly-but can't deal with how they treat me if I don't act just so.  I'm very kind and tactful- but my mother is very controlling-but plays the victim when people don't do what she wants.  We managed fine until she insisted I do something that went over the line with me.  I finally had to say no-but that I respected her needs.  My other brother left the family entirely 20 years ago when his own sensitivity didn't match with how we were 'trained.'  Sad- I miss him but this is what he needed to do.  He has a thriving business, beautiful home, many friends.  But my mom kept saying he had a mental problem- just like she does with me- telling me I'm flawed all the time.  She had a damaged past-very sad- but- I love her but no excuse to continue it on after she's an adult.  Oh anyway- too late now-she's in her 80's and my daughter champions her-she has no idea what I've been through with how I was raised.  I just try to be kind to my folks now and only contact them when I feel it won't damage me.  Kind of funny- I have been so set on listening to feelings and trying to see the other side and teaching openness and sensitivity to my kids- and one still went off on her own trying to do things the opposite from what I did.  She and my mom get along fine, big surprise.   My mom saw my grandson before I even did!  They match- I don't.  But my counselor tells me every time I get sad that would I want the alternative of actually being like them?  No- I like myself.   We're all just people- doing the best we can with what we have at the time we can manage to do it.

[jill]

Hi Softwillow(love your name, sounds so peaceful).  Welcome to WWU, I am so sorry you are going through this with your dd.  You sound like a strong person, and seem to be at peace with the decisions you have made.  I am estranged from my odd, have not spoken to her in over 3 months, during which time she screamed at me, she did not call on my birthday or Mothers' Day, she did send a late card after my birthday, but not for Mothers' Day, it hurts very deeply and I miss my gd very much. 
Something you said caught my eye regarding your own parents.  When I was much younger, I moved 3000 miles away from my parents, we wrote regularly and I did travel to see them a couple of times, but my dm told me I broke her heart.  After 20 years she moved closer to me, and we had a regular relationship then, I saw her every week, spoke 2-3 times on the phone, and every day as she got older, and did as much as I could for her when she got sick and passed away.   When my odd started treating me badly, I felt like I was getting "paid back" for leaving my mother, and I still have guilty feelings about this, although my dm and I were never estranged, always kept in touch.    My odd has said (before this total estrangement) that she and I had the same kind of relationship as I did with my mother.  Do you feel your relationship with your parents has anything to do with the relationship with your dd?  I don't mean to pry Softwillow, and please don't answer if you do not want to, but sometimes I ask myself if I had not left my mother would this have happened to me.       Would like your opinion.....Jill

[Donna]

JILL:  Aside from the journey I am going through, I usually have a very solid mind, a good awareness, and an unique ability to connect with people.  Many people come to me with their problems, I was so happy to find this site, as I could have a place to journal my life, my journey as who truly wants to share such a horrific past.

I read your note to Softwillow asking whether or not if you had not left your mother, would this not have happened to you.   I truly believe the answer is is nurture verses nature.  I don't believe because you had to leave your mother for any length of time, you are being punished, you had a beautiful end life with your mother.  I don't believe life was for me to have this life this way, it just happened, the luck of the draw.  or the unluck so to speak. 

Your dd has flung words which are like swords to slice into you, to hurt you.  Today children seem easier to hurl hurtful words than when I was younger.  I still would not.  I would not even to them, tho they have hurt me deeply. 

I am so sad for you that you miss your gd, and this too is a way of punishment.  In my last post I wrote of systemic punishment that is generational, and regardless of how I have tried to avoid it, I have had a long lonely battle on my own to avoid this; the odds are against me, so I leave it to a higher power to deal with, and pray for redemption for all.

Softwillow, I love your name as well, you have a good head on your shoulders and reading what you write, I understand this.  I have done damage control for years and years, and perhaps that's why I am all cried out.  Jill, I am so happy for you that you had that special time with your mother, it was indeed a blessing, and your punishment is from a person who knows what hurts you, similar I am certain to most, for most knows what rips our heart out, and it makes them even more so endearing. 

I will pray for your daughter to see the light of day, as it is her child who is missing out by her choice not yours.

I thank you for answering me. Blessings and I hope you don't mind I wrote you back.  Donna

[overwhelmed123]

That is a great line, for sure. I also like SW's line, "I miss her but can't make her like me."

Last night I was thinking about how it is possible to fiercely love someone but not like them. I have a feeling a lot of our detached adult children do love us but may not particularly like us for one reason or another. I know there are moms here who have expressed those feelings about their adult children.

I have a feeling you are right, Pen.  I know my DH has said as much.  He never hesitated to tell his mom that, either.  "Mom, I love you- and this is WHY I'm asking for some compromise here- because I do love you and I do want to have a good relationship with you.  If it didn't matter to me, I wouldn't bring anything up."  Of course, it still gets turned into him not loving his family, but he really does.  I think he is in a lot of the moms positions on this board.  You love someone, but that doesn't mean you have to keep putting up with their abuse.  Everyone has a limit.  Even if they aren't healthy for you, you still love them.

[softwillow]

Jill, I agree with Donna, in that it's not your fault. But- I also feel that what Donna says rings true- unhealthy behavior is generational and it's hard to get past it.  It looks like punishment-but it isn't.  The ones we love the most know what pushes our buttons- and it is up to us to try to fix the buttons in ourselves.  For example- I work on not obsessing when my dd ignores me.  That is my button.  Last Saturday, she sent me a quick text saying she'd call me when she had time.  In the past, it would have upset me that she couldn't take 5 minutes out of her day and just call- and she didn't even write or call me on Mother's Day, either. But what I did was send her a short reply back on Saturday saying there was no rush- take your time.  She actually called me Monday.  If I had gotten upset-she wouldn't have called.  But-I have to remain true to myself so within the conversation I asked her if she got the M.Day card I sent her- she didn't-said she hadn't checked her mail.  I told her Happy M. Day-and that when I didn't hear from her on days like those it made me wonder if there was something bigger going on.  I said she could talk to me anytime if there was and I would take my share of the responsibility.  She didn't yell at me this time when I said that- a big step for her.  If I opened up with some feeling or other to my own mom-she would get so angry at me and tell me I was flawed and I would end up alone.  So- step by step.  I know it feels like you're being punished, Jill- and I have absolutely felt the same way before.  It is wonderful that you spent the last years with your mom-it is hopefully a cherished memory.  I have years of cherished memories with my folks, too-I was the one who would drop everything and be there for my folks for years. I knew it would last as long as my mom didn't try to push me into doing something for her that I wasn't able to do-and that is what happened.  It was a struggle emotionally, because I didn't want to hurt her- but had to remain true to myself- and I did, with the help of my counselor.  As for yoursef- moving 2000 miles away is pretty normal for a lot of grown children- explore the world, get out  on your own.  I personally spent 15 years on my own guilt for things I had done in the past- and what I have learned is that I wasn't allowing the other person to take their share of the responsibility for their own reactions.  Your mother could have said - yes, she was hurt- but she was proud of you for being so strong and independent to want to get out on your own.  I always use the 'what could they have said' thing- it really helps me.  My mom wrote to me a couple weeks ago and asked if there was anything that could get us past this and I wrote her back and said yes, there is- I cared for her and her feelings and wanted her to finally tell me she really didn't think I was flawed, that she wouldn't ever again tell me I would never have any friends and family-and that no one in the whole world would ever want to be around me- and since she had also told everyone my brother had a mental problem when he tried to be himself(he doesn't)- I wanted her to make this right with people she told all this to about me.  She acts very, very sweet on the outside and gets folks to feel so sorry for this sweet woman- but it's all manipulative.  And if my brother or me got upset at how she treated us- we were the ones who looked off base-just for being real and showing real emotion.  Because that wasn't allowed in my family.  My mom needed to be taken care of above all else and above all feelings. Ah well- she doesn't even know she's doing it- or if she does, she can't change now.  But I did tell her that.  Of course I haven't heard from her and don't expect to.  It felt good to answer her question, though.  A part of her wants me back-but she's trying to make it so that I am back on her terms- understanding that I have a mental problem. Finally- I can't do this.  I mean mor eto myself and am my own best friends.  I love them dearly, though.  I'm trying to send fist and cards when I can.  The kids today can just blow things off easier, I feel- it's a different generation.  Myabe one could look upon it as a form of strength- o rnot.  I'm still wondering about that one.  I felt very guilty telling my mom all that and answering her question-- but my counselor said it was a gift to her- the truth.  Because no one tells her the truth- they will be banished from the family by emotional distance if they do.  I am on the road to healthy, trying to finally break this generational pattern in my family- with my kids.  I have a great relationship with my sons- and will try with my daughter as long as I'm alive.  It's important that people be accepted for who they are and what they are comfortable with-as I must also do with my dd.  If I allow her to be herself, for whatever reason she acts the way she does- as long as I remain true to myself and don't allow myself to be trodden upon emotionally- my hope is that someday she will come closer.  I can only work on me and but I am determined to help my kids overcome this pattern that has plagued our family.  They can't see it but I will continue to slowly, gently, get past my own buttons and get to truth and health- it's my responsibility to my kids to do this.