FDIL said she won.

[pam1]

LOL OW.  I just get to the point where I'm done with someone or something and I don't care.  I have no idea if that is forgiveness or not, I'm told it is indifference.

Haha..well you can't be said to be holding a grudge if you don't care...so...maybe it's both? 

I don't know.  I have a hard time with the concept of forgiveness but 99 times out 100 I will always give in to the other person.  So I seem to think on the 1 out of 100 times I ask for something, I should get it.  If someone continually denies me and then creates a fuss over my 1 time, I just seem to think they are not worth my time. 

Basically, I'm not a persistent person.  I'd be a horrible salesman, "oh you don't want that?  ok, good bye then" and out the door. 

For me, it's just much more important to feel like I did the right thing, try my best rather than having a specific outcome.  I don't know if that makes any sense.

Thanks TheMuffin   that's kind of you to say.

Adil, I know, that's why I'm not sure if my way is better or not -- indifference is the opposite of love, it's not hate as most people commonly think.  I don't know, it just seems to me if you try your best and you know it, there isn't much to hold on to. 

[themuffin]

Indifference.... Ewwww..... It is a 4 letter word IMO..... Why? because it is the lack of emotion. I would rather be hated than treated with indifference because then at least they still, in a way, care...... But, horrible me, I've realized that I am indifferent towards my MIL and her daughter. It was the only way to stop their hatred from ripping me apart, sooooo, maybe it isn't so bad after all?

Indifference is good!!!  There truly is a thin line between love and hate.  You explained indifference so well!  It takes effort to hate.  And yes, you have to care in order to hate.  But indifference means that it means nothing to you one way or the other, thus it can't effect your life.  I like indifference and I hope one way to feel that for FDIL.  Right now I'm torn between hurt and anger.

I was twenty something when I learned the opposite of love was not hate...it's indifference.

Oh, I was twenty something too when I learned a new lesson on love.  I remember thinking that true love lasted forever.  Sweet but not true.  I read this somewhere and I completely agree:

Yesterday's love is gone
Tomorrow's love is not here yet
And today's love has to be earned

Not as romantic or sweet but it makes sense to me.

Hugs WW!!!

[AnonymousDIL]

Basically, I'm not a persistent person.  I'd be a horrible salesman, "oh you don't want that?  ok, good bye then" and out the door. 

We had a family balloon-sculpting business for 6 years. We were horrible when it came to taking money. The kid would order the balloon (oftentimes WITH the parent right there) and walk away without paying. We never "hunted them down" for the money. Oh, being stiffed was NOT fun! lol

[justus]

Wow, Muffin, what a scene. I can just imagine you standing there with the book in your hand and your jaw on the ground in shock over such an extreme reaction to your presence.  What do you say in the face of all of that? Leaving was the best thing you could have done.

And, leaving them alone is the best thing you can continue to do. I sounds like you were way too involved in their lives when they lived with you. Just from what you wrote, you were the buffer, you put yourself into their relationship, probably at their invitation, and made things OK, smoothed things over. Now without you as a buffer, we will see how well things go. You never know, they might be able to work things out, but either way, whatever blinders they had on will be coming off very soon.

Just for future reference, it is a very bad idea to be in the middle of your children's relationships. I learned this from my M. My OS would run to M and tell her all about her problems with BIL. An hour later, OS and BIL and made up, but M was still mad at BIL for whatever he had supposedly done. OS was/is a notorious liar and knew how to turn truth into wild stories in which she was the poor victim. She got lots of sympathy, but family functions were awkward. OS finally got it that she was causing the rift, so she stopped being so overly dramatic about it, and found someone else to talk to. M expected me to tell her all the dirt and was very upset when I didn't let her into the middle of my M. She didn't like my first H, anyway, there was no way I was going to add fuel to the fire.

Best thing you can do is to listen and to empathize, but never, ever offer an opinion or take sides. Also, realize you are getting only part of the story. With your DS's GF, the better thing to do is to say you are sorry she is in such pain, but you are not comfortable talking with her about her issues with your DS and change the subject, hang up, or walk away. You know that whatever you say will be held against you so it is better to not go there ever.

Don't lose hope here. Neither of these two people sound very mature or very together. With only the two of them to bounce off of, things aren't going to be so sweet. I predict huge drama in the very near future and they are going to try to drag you into the middle of it. As much as it feels good to be needed and to be able to rescue them, don't do it. Let them deal with the natural consequences of their own choices. It will be hard, but they will never grow up or learn anything if you protect them.

[themuffin]

You are so right Justus...  I was all up in the Kood-Aid.  I no it wasn't wise, but I have NO tolerance for infidelity.  I take it very personal and my DS knows that.  I tried to teach all of my boys that it was okay to walk away from a relationship if you weren't happy.  In fact, that it the only fair and humane thing to do.  I told them that it was wrong to hang on to a person if you really didn't want them.  If they aren't enough for you than let them go.  I stressed that you are given this one little life and the greatest gift you can give to a person is the gift of yourself, sharing the one life that God gave you.  You don't get to start over.  So if this person is not the one, care for them enough to let them go and perhaps find the one who will cherish their most precious gift....the gift of themself.  But here was DS cheating and flaunting it in her face. 

Talk about a ugly scene...FDIL finds DS and Other Woman (OW) in bed at my home.  DS tells OW FDIL is crazy and it's over but she won't let go.  FDIL is forcefully removed from room, falls to the floor crying her heart out.  MS calls me and tells me about it.  She texts me her little heart out and text challenged me takes hours trying to assure her she's lovable, and beautiful and it's his issue and not hers. Blah, blah, blah.  Everyday I sent her affirmations.  Just telling her she was worthy to be loved, she was smart or "You're beautiful".  ALL IN THE KOOL-AID.  DS probably wanted to tell me to butt out, but I could never condone wrong and just stand by and watch it happen.  I always told them that I would never defend them if they were wrong.

Oh, and just like you wrote, they made up and I'm sure DS was not pleased with me. So yes, I will not make the same "mistake" with the other two.  But must admit if they ever did treat women the way DS does it would be difficult for me to turn a blind eye.  But I will have to go against my character if I want to maintain a relationship with them I suppose.    I did try talking to DS when he first cheated.  I told him that it truly hurts and if he cared for a even a little, he'd leave her before he continued to break her spirit.  He pretended to listen.  I bet he was calling me names in his head.  YEP.I WILL MYOB!!!

Thanks again for all this wonderful advice.  Glad you don't charge by the hour, lol.

[luise.volta]

Tough stuff. It seems to me like you had a sort-of agreement until you took the book over. How often one thing like that blows the lid off. Had you mailed the book...my sense is it would only have been a matter of time. Sad. And I'm glad you have an e-family here. We do care...a lot.

[overwhelmed123]

I most certainly did not have an affair with your son!!!   

[themuffin]

I most certainly did not have an affair with your son!!!   

BEST LAUGH ALL DAY!!!  THANKS!! Laughter is the best medicine.

Luise, I know you hear it all the time, but you are an amazing person and what you have created here has helped so many lives.  I am so grateful to have found this place  Thank you so much for letting be a part of this amazing forum.  It has helped me more than any therapist ever could.  I know this because I used to go to them.  THanks for always caring enough to respond with some words of wisdom.  It truly mean a lot.

[AnonymousDIL]

I most certainly did not have an affair with your son!!!   

LOVE!!!!! :-)

[luise.volta]

We shoot! I'm not having an affair with anybody's son! 

And you are Welcome. It's comments like yours that keep me, Kirk and our Moderators going. I'm sending your kudos on to Kirk.

[Unknown]

Well I cant really give you advice or praise you because I dont have all the info. There has to be a reason why your fdil has so much hostility towards you. What role did you play trying to make your relationship better with her? How did you treat her when they lived with you ?I cant give you advice til I know all the info.

[AnonymousDIL]

Unknown,

Muffin has given us plenty of info regarding how she treated FDIL while she was living under muffin's roof. She has put up with a lot. I hope that in the future their relationship will be mended.

[overwhelmed123]

Unknown, not only has muffin given us plenty of information, but I don't think she asked for advice.  She's got a pretty good handle on the situation at hand.  She just wanted to vent.  Those of us who have been here do know the whole situation, though, and we seem to be in agreement here.

[justus]

Muffin, that is good advice to give your sons. I have given my children similar advice. I have also told them all that if the person they were with didn't know he wanted to be with them and only them, he wasn't worth their time. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.

I probably would have told my DS off over the same behavior, or we would have talked about it and I would have made it clear that I did not approve and was very disappointed. But there is such a fine line that is so easy to step over. It is somewhere between being a shoulder to cry on and being emotionally invested in the outcome to the point where you are just as much a part of the problem.  I know these two people have behaved badly and are out of line on many counts, but I can just imagine how smothered they felt.

I am glad for all of you that they are out of your house. Maybe with distance and time things will settle and you can establish a more adult relationship with them.

[Unknown]

Hmm where all she said was she told her son she left too when she couldnt abide by her parents rules. What rules? But I do applaud her son for asking for respect for his future wife. Sounds to me the poster cant accept her son's future marriage.