Can't win :-(

[Pooh]

It does sometimes seem like we can't win, no matter what we do.  I think that says more about them than it does us.  Hang in there justus.  Even though it left you feeling badly, try to look at it as a positive that he may be missing you more than you thought.

[Keys Girl]

I did some reading recently that shed some light on the "darned if you do, etc." dept.

The article talked about the fact that when conflict arises if at some point you have some leverage over the other party, they will do anything to get out of the "one down position".  The article explained that it was not the parties involved that were critical to the resistance but that the conflict often arises from the other party insisting that you be the "one down" person.  That's where the darned if you do, or not comes into play, and the other party is actively trying to put you in the "one down" position so that they can be out of it (if they perceive that they are in it).

I thought this was an interesting way to explain why no matter what you do or try is always wrong, and it's not confined to in law relationships, those dynamics come into play with many types of relationships.

[holliberri]

Hey Keys,

I had to edit your post due to language in conflict with the Forum Agreement. No biggie, I just didn't want anyone to read your post and take that as permission to use the more colorful words. Do you know where you found that article? I would like to read it, if possible. It sounds interesting and I think I could use it in my relationships at work. I would love to read it if you have the chance to find it. Thanks!

[Pen]

TMB, my DIL's FOO has been very demanding about some important decisions DS & DIL had to make recently, whereas DH & I didn't have any input other than support for whatever choice they made. DS told me that he & DIL really appreciated how we listened but didn't push them. It's just a small step towards being seen as worthwhile in DIL's eyes, but we'll take it.

Small, inobtrusive text messages every now and then work for my DS...he likes to know we're thinking about him but doesn't always want to engage.

Keys, that article sounds interesting.

[overwhelmed123]

Keys,
I would love to see that article too...it sounds very interesting.

Sorry you're having some trouble TMB, but you hang in there.  From what you described, you DO sound like the ideal ILs- I think your son is just frustrated.  Plus, you know even if you were absolutely perfect, your DIL would find something "wrong" with you if that's just the way she is.  Hey, remind him the phone works both ways, too!  I'm sure, as a mom, you'd talk to him however often he wanted to call!

[Tara]

TMB,

Sounds to me like your previous stepping back approach has been working.  DS seems to want a  more engagement and you
are going to step up the contact a little.   One question you might ask him if you didn't already is what he WOULD like.  He said
he wouldn't want you and dh enmeshed in his life...but what would work?   To me it sounds like progress, but Keys Girl and others could be right. 

[tryingmybest]

Thanks ladies! Speaking of articles wow I had a hard time keeping this one to my-self !

http://yahoo.match.com/y/article.aspx?articleid=1432&TrackingID=526103&BannerID=747175

[cd1029]

I am puzzled if your son wants more contact with you why doesn't he initiate it?

[luise.volta]

We often clutter things up with the "whys" of logic when it isn't logic-based. The "darned if you do and darned if you don't", is, to me, an action based extension of the "yahbut rabbit." It's a blocking maneuver.

[Keys Girl]

Hey Keys,

I had to edit your post due to language in conflict with the Forum Agreement. No biggie, I just didn't want anyone to read your post and take that as permission to use the more colorful words. Do you know where you found that article? I would like to read it, if possible. It sounds interesting and I think I could use it in my relationships at work. I would love to read it if you have the chance to find it. Thanks!

Holly, I'll hve to re-read the Forum Agreement so that I'm "on side".

The article came out of the "In Sheep's Clothing" book about understanding and dealing with manipulative people written by George Simon.  I pick it up and flip through it quite often and read whatever chapter is hand.  I think it's an outstanding book, I would keep this one along and discard everything else if it came to that.

[holliberri]

That is the second time I've heard that book referenced (and I think the other time wasn't even on WWU)...I think I'll have to take a peak! THanks!

[AnonymousDIL]

Thanks ladies! Speaking of articles wow I had a hard time keeping this one to my-self !

http://yahoo.match.com/y/article.aspx?articleid=1432&TrackingID=526103&BannerID=747175

I think this was written about my SIL! LOL

[AnonymousDIL]

I am puzzled if your son wants more contact with you why doesn't he initiate it?

That's not always the easiest thing to do. Know the phrase "If momma ain't happy, ain't noboldy happy." Well, DIL is the wife which makes her the "momma." He might not be happy with the situation, but he will have to deal with the consequences of a cranky wife, maybe some "withholding" lol, and the like if he goes against her wishes. TMB's DIL is very controling, she is most likely the "cranky momma" when she doesn't get her way. My SIL is this way..... It is soooo horribly sad. 

[pam1]

I dunno, I think that term can apply to everyone, especially all living in a household.  Sometimes peoples happiness is just asking to be treated respectfully, others it is to be treated like Queen.

I tell DH all the time "happy wife, happy life."  It's a circle, you make me happy, I make you happy etc.  The happier I am, the happier he will be. 

I'm not talking about anything with severe dysfunction but I think on a normal level, it just makes sense to keep your bread buttered.

[justus]

That article was great. I know a few people who need to read that.