I would have never gotten away with it.

[holliberri]

Weighing in quickly!   As a GM, when it comes to safety or major things, I will still discipline.  Yes, the dog kicking thing would not have been tolerated by me.  I would have explained nicely that we didn't hurt animals.  The second time, would have warranted a time out, birthday or not.  My idea of spoiling is letting them do small things, that maybe a parent wouldn't allow.  Say for example, maybe the parent doesn't let them play with play dough at home because it makes a mess.  I would so buy play dough and let them play with it at my house.  To me, that's things as a GP I would do different that maybe I didn't allow as a parent.  Major rules of a parent I would follow.  And rules I had at my house, I would expect them to follow.  If the parent lets them jump on the bed at home, they still wouldn't do it at my house.

Now, I would never discipline some strangers child in public.  If the child was in danger, yes I would intervene, but not discipline.  I would have a cow if some stranger tried to discipline my child.  I also don't believe in the "wait til your father gets home, or mother, etc."  That sets the parent or parents up to be the bad guys.  They will have ample opportunity to become the bad guys in their own right, when the kids are teenagers so they don't need my help with that.

Yes, Pooh. Small things like driving the car up and down the driveway! LOL. (I laugh b/c that is a long standing tradition among GPs in my family). 

[holliberri]

And, as an adult, I do love my little silly trophies from softball (I was never great, but enjoyed playing). They bring back some fond memories for me. I remember the team members, the coach and the fact that  we usually lost.

[Pooh]

Weighing in quickly!   As a GM, when it comes to safety or major things, I will still discipline.  Yes, the dog kicking thing would not have been tolerated by me.  I would have explained nicely that we didn't hurt animals.  The second time, would have warranted a time out, birthday or not.  My idea of spoiling is letting them do small things, that maybe a parent wouldn't allow.  Say for example, maybe the parent doesn't let them play with play dough at home because it makes a mess.  I would so buy play dough and let them play with it at my house.  To me, that's things as a GP I would do different that maybe I didn't allow as a parent.  Major rules of a parent I would follow.  And rules I had at my house, I would expect them to follow.  If the parent lets them jump on the bed at home, they still wouldn't do it at my house.

Now, I would never discipline some strangers child in public.  If the child was in danger, yes I would intervene, but not discipline.  I would have a cow if some stranger tried to discipline my child.  I also don't believe in the "wait til your father gets home, or mother, etc."  That sets the parent or parents up to be the bad guys.  They will have ample opportunity to become the bad guys in their own right, when the kids are teenagers so they don't need my help with that.

Yes, Pooh. Small things like driving the car up and down the driveway! LOL. (I laugh b/c that is a long standing tradition among GPs in my family).

Yeah!  Like that!   

[Pen]

And, as an adult, I do love my little silly trophies from softball (I was never great, but enjoyed playing). They bring back some fond memories for me. I remember the team members, the coach and the fact that  we usually lost.

I think that's sweet.

Not to beat the proverbial dead horse, or go off track, but a lot of parents were upset when the so-called "short bus" kids got to walk in caps & gowns as well as receive diplomas at high school graduation ceremonies. Their argument was that these kids didn't have to accomplish what the regular ed kids had to; the special ed kids had less-intensive curriculum that covered the same subjects. Walking was one of the highlights of my DDD's life. No one is ever going to mistake her for a normal kid even with a diploma. The normal kids are going to be successful and have great lives, while my kid will likely never have a fulfilling career, independence or a marriage w/children, so how exactly did her graduation affect the graduation/diploma of the regular-ed kids? I think she's been dealt a difficult enough hand w/o taking graduation away from her as well. BTW, she worked hard to get there & had to deal with teasing, bullying, predjudice and exclusion along the way. She totally earned that ceremony and diploma.

[pam1]

Pen, I agree with you.  Your DD totally deserved all of that.

I do hear what you're saying, some kids try their heart out and should be rewarded too.  My issue is that not all kids actually do.  Some are only there b/c of their parents, some for the socialization etc. 

And like Laurie said, where's the line?  Showing up to  class gets you passed in some schools.  That's not really being nice or kind. 

[LaurieS]

And, as an adult, I do love my little silly trophies from softball (I was never great, but enjoyed playing). They bring back some fond memories for me. I remember the team members, the coach and the fact that  we usually lost.

I think that's sweet.

Not to beat the proverbial dead horse, or go off track, but a lot of parents were upset when the so-called "short bus" kids got to walk in caps & gowns as well as receive diplomas at high school graduation ceremonies. Their argument was that these kids didn't have to accomplish what the regular ed kids had to; the special ed kids had less-intensive curriculum that covered the same subjects. Walking was one of the highlights of my DDD's life. No one is ever going to mistake her for a normal kid even with a diploma. The normal kids are going to be successful and have great lives, while my kid will likely never have a fulfilling career, independence or a marriage w/children, so how exactly did her graduation affect the graduation/diploma of the regular-ed kids? I think she's been dealt a difficult enough hand w/o taking graduation away from her as well. BTW, she worked hard to get there & had to deal with teasing, bullying, predjudice and exclusion along the way. She totally earned that ceremony and diploma.

You aren't Pen.. but what I see in the scenario you set here.. If a student fulfills his/her requirements to graduate, then yes they graduate... But not everyone gets to wear the title of Valedictorian.  Everyone deserves to be recognized for hard work and hard efforts and yes that should be as individualized as the person behind the effort.  And my point is.. It's OK not to be at the top of the class.. it's ok that  you did not get that automatic 5,000 scholarship that came with it.  But to many have gotten into the entitlement mind set.. they did finish school and met the requirements.. where is their money?  And society, seems to be taking that to the next level at times and trying to 'give' everyone a equal share of what they believe they should have gotten.

And in our youth softball.. scores were not kept for the sole reason of not having anyone declared a winner/looser and I'm not talking about t-ball with little tiny babies almost.

[holliberri]

Did you know that law school at Yale doesn't have grades? No class rank either. No special attention upon graduation...just that Yale degree. 

The theory is that those law students worked TOO hard to get into the school to be competitive against one another. Us dummies that went to the  lower ranked schools however, were graded, class ranked and went through all sorts of things to cull the herd.

[LaurieS]

yeah I think you had to be at a certain level to get into Yale lol.. who needs to compete at that point.. they are all brilliant..  Didn't one of our members husbands attend Yale.. oh no it may have been Harvard, I don't remember.. wonder if Harvard adheres by the same policies

[holliberri]

I *thought* all of the Ivies did. I see the benefit, but I see the problems as well.

[SassyDI]

I can see both sides of this coin.  Yes, GP's have a prerogative to spoil.  But they should also obey the parents rules.   If the GK is staying with the GP, then the GP's looser rules can apply, as long as the major ones are kept.  (You know, something like letting the GK stay up 1/2 hour, but not 2 or 3 hours.  Or allowing some candy, but not chocolate or not too much.)

It troubles me that the GM in this post doesn't mind if the child kicks a dog and will do anything to keep the child from crying.  Also, she won't intervene immediately when the child's safety is at stake.  To me, that's not a good care-giver.

I think you need to have a "come to Jesus" talk with your Mom.  You may have to be tough with her, but I don't think you can let her say that your discipline is too tough, in front of your DD.  That's undermining your authority and it's just not allowed.

I can see that you're in a bind, what with your DH's health issues, but sometimes, the cheapest way to pay is with money.

Ok but its not like that at all I don't care how late she stays up, what she eats ect.  If she is at Grandma's but I do expect her to make sure she is following the rules at Grandma's.  If she doesn't listen all I want her to do is a simple 3 minute time out.  Not long at all just sit her down and set the timer and then be done.  Her claim to not doing time outs is because she never did them to us.  Hello she put us in our room for a while and got us out when she felt like it.  Three short minutes isn't going to kill her. 

My mother does care if she kickes the dog she just felt no time out was needed.  Hitting biting or harm on purpose to anyone including animals is time out no warning is needed to me for hurting somone.  The its her birthday doesnt fly well with me at all.

Paying a sitter I really know anyone who is a babysitter.  Futher the only people I leave her with our my sister and parents.  Once my BIL and another friend.  But its not always easy to get them they have lives of their own.  And with my hubby's injury I can't just leave her with him.

[SassyDI]

The rules I want to be followed

1. No hitting biting throwing ect
2. No talking back
3. No running in the house/pubic places
Myabe a few more mostly basic rules anyone would have for a child.


I am not asking her to feed her organic food like I do, I am not asking her to put her to bed when I do, ect.  I am asking that she makes sure DD is well behaved while under her care and if she's not give a warning and if still not listening a 3 minute time out.  I know her rules will be different they are picky about their walls not being touched and I make sure DD follows that rule.

[Pen]

yeah I think you had to be at a certain level to get into Yale lol.. who needs to compete at that point.. they are all brilliant..  Didn't one of our members husbands attend Yale.. oh no it may have been Harvard, I don't remember.. wonder if Harvard adheres by the same policies

Some people buy their way into Yale, actually. Not all Ivy League students are brilliant, some have family connections that go way back, endowments that secure their admission, etc. I think that kind of proves my earlier point about winning - it isn't all based on hard work and effort, even in youth sports. A lot of it is just good luck.

[LaurieS]

lol.... I hate when people touch my walls.. I thought it was just me.. oh I feel better now

Yes in childhood it's a good time for a person to learn.. keep your hands off the walls.. I have a fsil who needs to learn that.. oh and no sitting on my counter.. I don't care if that is his chair height.


Sdl.. basic rules are not to much to ask  for.. but don't give mixed messages, she may be unsure as to what you are asking on a daily basis.

[LaurieS]

yeah I think you had to be at a certain level to get into Yale lol.. who needs to compete at that point.. they are all brilliant..  Didn't one of our members husbands attend Yale.. oh no it may have been Harvard, I don't remember.. wonder if Harvard adheres by the same policies

Some people buy their way into Yale, actually. Not all Ivy League students are brilliant, some have family connections that go way back, endowments that secure their admission, etc. I think that kind of proves my earlier point about winning - it isn't all based on hard work and effort, even in youth sports. A lot of it is just good luck.

I'm not going to disagree with the luck.. or the unfairness .. such is life  .. but I thought we were talking about the middle of the road, the average joes.

[pam1]

The rules I want to be followed

1. No hitting biting throwing ect
2. No talking back
3. No running in the house/pubic places
Myabe a few more mostly basic rules anyone would have for a child.


I am not asking her to feed her organic food like I do, I am not asking her to put her to bed when I do, ect.  I am asking that she makes sure DD is well behaved while under her care and if she's not give a warning and if still not listening a 3 minute time out.  I know her rules will be different they are picky about their walls not being touched and I make sure DD follows that rule.

I just died laughing at your typo, sorry  

Those are good rules.  The only problem it's terrifically hard to enforce some of them, especially with a toddler.