I would have never gotten away with it.

[pam1]

You can either be a good doobie or a bad doobie.  Everyone can be a doobie, a person, dog, cat. 

[holliberri]

Yeah, I do think there is a ton more about intramural sports than just winning. I think the above mentioned daycare instructor was joking, but joking very poorly. I don't think his message was appropriate for an afternoon of soccer.

[pam1]

Winning is not my objective.  I don't care if DD is on the losing team, time to learn how to lose gracefully.

To me, it doesn't follow natural life consequences.  If at work you're not in top work production, you don't get top pay etc.  In my mind, giving a trophy for participating is the same as paying everyone the same.  Just doesn't work that way.

[holliberri]

Even if the winning team gets the really big trophy, Pam? It's a difference there...or does your team sports club give everyone the same exact trophy?

[pam1]

No, they are all the same size and pretty much the same.  The winners get a little #1 carved in.  Big whoop lol

It's just something that I noticed.   Everything always have to be "fair" which I think is wrong.  Life is not fair.

[pam1]

You ever wonder why those fools go on American Idol and really, truly think they sound good?  (I know some people go on for laughs)  It's b/c someone told them all their life that they are a great singer, that they are a star and really, they could never carry a tune.

I'm all for making people feel good but I think feeling good comes from inside.  Really knowing yourself and your strengths and weaknesses.  Loving yourself even if you can't carry a tune and won't be the next Mariah Carey.  Finding another hobby that you are truly good at or even just like to do etc.

[LaurieS]

But why is it not ok when you don't win... no one is going to paint that oversize L on your forehead.  That was one of my reasons for allowing my dd to play serious competition softball.. she did everything in her power not to lose but if she did, it was met with grace and no tears and hopefully no anger or resentment.  Unless children lose how do they ever understand how good it feels when you gave it your best and achieved the goal?  But again it's the balance that we need to strive for.. and to take that win/loss situation and let them apply it to other aspects.

It use to be that the winning team got a free hotdog.. that was banned long ago.. now everyone gets hotdogs.. but then a problem came into play.. there wasn't enough money for all those hotdogs.. so everyone's sign-up fees went up, but then there came another problem.. not everyone could afford the rise in the fees so they gave out softball scholarships based on finances.. so guess what the fees had to go up again because now everyone had to pay for those who couldn't afford it and received the scholarships.  Personally I thought it would have been easier to eliminate the free hotdog to begin with.. not sure where it all begins and where it will ever end.

[Pen]

My kids learned how to lose and win gracefully. When the games were over both teams lined up to tell each other "good game." It didn't seem to hurt DS's sense of competition. Even now he plays to win, but is graceful whether he wins or loses. Plus, he madly loves his sport. Yay! To me that's worth more than anything since it is one thing we continue to share as a family.

For us it wasn't about being fair, it was about encouraging other qualities besides winning. The trophies all players got were for participation, which they all "won" at, if you can look at it that way. The kids with natural sports ability rose to the top, progressed through the club teams (where they didn't hand out participation awards, BTW) and on to star in high school & college sports. The kids who only got a little participation trophy in the beginning had no illusions that they too were sports stars. They already knew life wasn't fair since life hadn't given them the same natural sports ability as the "winners."

[holliberri]

Yeah, I think Pen is right. Those that excel do it regardless of the rewards received or who gets them.  Besides, even with no trophy, I'm rather happy with winning. Life doesn't always hand you trophies for success either.

[pam1]

I'm not saying that winners get to win rudely.  I think it's just a more natural way, you're rewarded for things you can do better.  That's been my experience as an adult anyway.

But hey, this is coming from the gal who won't let little kids beat her just for the sake of it  

[AnonymousDIL]

However, if you ARE one of the truly successful people why shouldn't you get rewarded for it. Life is not fair. I think children need to be taught that. If you want something (a trophy), you need to learn to work hard for it and not just have it handed to you. Sounds little like the welfare system to me.

[holliberri]

I think Pen's point was sometimes, those that don't win are working just as hard as those that do. That deserves something special too.

I also work in the welfare system. I just got off the phone with a quadraplegic that had his benefits erroneously suspended b/c the gov't is in a widespread crackdown to eliminate fraud. Someone in my agency thought a man without legs was faking, and now, his family has been without pay for two months in a row.

He works as hard as you or I...but  he is feeding a family of 3 on $7.50 an hour, in Philadelphia no less. I imagine he is well deserving of that disability check, b/c of his hard work and circumstances he has had to overcome. Life has been a peach to me when I consider what he's been through. Unfortunately, his reward happens to be a disabilty check.

[AnonymousDIL]

Anywho, my point which I realized that I never stated is lol

If you are one of the people who works hard and is the "best" at what you do, it is very depressing to see others get the same treatment as you. It makes you think, "Why should I even bother? I can work half as hard as I do and still get all the benefits." That's where my comment about welfare was coming from. I know it isn't true of ALL people on government assistance because some work really hard and still can't make it on their own, but SOME of them are really just milking the system and don't want to work. I am ashamed to say that some of them are in my own family.   

Obviously the gentlmen you mentioned needs the help and isn't milking the system. It is sad when good people fall through the cracks.

[Pooh]

Weighing in quickly!   As a GM, when it comes to safety or major things, I will still discipline.  Yes, the dog kicking thing would not have been tolerated by me.  I would have explained nicely that we didn't hurt animals.  The second time, would have warranted a time out, birthday or not.  My idea of spoiling is letting them do small things, that maybe a parent wouldn't allow.  Say for example, maybe the parent doesn't let them play with play dough at home because it makes a mess.  I would so buy play dough and let them play with it at my house.  To me, that's things as a GP I would do different that maybe I didn't allow as a parent.  Major rules of a parent I would follow.  And rules I had at my house, I would expect them to follow.  If the parent lets them jump on the bed at home, they still wouldn't do it at my house.

Now, I would never discipline some strangers child in public.  If the child was in danger, yes I would intervene, but not discipline.  I would have a cow if some stranger tried to discipline my child.  I also don't believe in the "wait til your father gets home, or mother, etc."  That sets the parent or parents up to be the bad guys.  They will have ample opportunity to become the bad guys in their own right, when the kids are teenagers so they don't need my help with that.

[Pen]

Again, the children who received participation trophies were all well aware that they weren't winners. The winning teams knew they were the winners, whether they had won by skill, hardwork, the luck of being born with ability, the luck of ref calls that went their way, cheating, good coaching, parental involvement or more likely a combination of all those things.

Kind of like life after all, eh? I know a lot of people who are financially rewarded for less than stellar work, and some for doing no work at all (trust fund babies come to mind.)

Re: discipline, I'd never discipline another's child but I have no problem pointing out repeated rude or inconsiderate behavior when the parent is not stepping in.