Need the Wisdom

[1Glitterati]

I've really thought long and hard about this...and I want to address this statement:

"What you bring to the table is the perspective of the new generation, and we appreciate that.  A lot of us (me) are very old-fashioned regarding manners and courtesy and it's been an eye opener for what now passes for acceptable."

I simply don't think disagreeing with or telling an "elder" no is unmannerly or discourteous.  I so many times see older people talking about how disrespectful or rude someone younger is...and they're not---they're simply not agreeing with or letting the older person have their way.  That is not disrespect.  That is having your own wants and boundaries and standing up for and enforcing them.  That can be done in a nice tone of voice and it can be done without being rude...but saying no or not giving someone what they want is not in and of itself rude or unmannerly.  No one has the right to want they want and expect it simply because of age. 

Capitulation and agreement have nothing to do with manners or courtesy.  Thank you, please, your welcome, yes ma'am, no ma'am, yes sir, no sir, may I, holding a door--those are things that are mannerly and courteous.

[Pen]

1Glitterati, please elaborate. Where did ST say that saying "no" to an older person was not well-mannered or courteous? I'm so confused; I thought ST was discussing inconsiderate or thoughtless behavior.

Confusion is my middle name these days, sorry. Help?

[luise.volta]

Thanks, G.: I think it can be "some people" not necessarily "older people"...(speaking.  There are still some terribly authoritarian young parents. And I do believe that in generations past the "children should be seen and not heard" caused terrible issues. My kids (now far from that) got to disagree but they did not get to tear us apart verbally or tear the house apart with tantrums. Someplace there is a middle road, I hope. First the pendulum swings way over to kids cowering and not daring to have or state an opinion or, above all else, disagree...to the pendulum swinging way too far over in the other direction. That's in some cases but not all, of course in both instances. (MHO.)

[1Glitterati]

1Glitterati, please elaborate. Where did ST say that saying "no" to an older person was not well-mannered or courteous? I'm so confused; I thought ST was discussing inconsiderate or thoughtless behavior.

Confusion is my middle name these days, sorry. Help?

I could have been clearer---I have a harder time with posting now that I can't go back and grammar fix or add or delete sentences.  I tend to write in a stream of consciousness style and then clean it up.  Sorry...drove off on a tangent.

ST did not say saying no was...but I do see a great many people of older generations who do think that simply by virtue of their age and role in a persons life, that if they aren't agreed with that they are being disrespected.  Age doesn't buy agreement in and of itself.  It may have in the past...but it doesn't now.  I don't see disagreement in and of itself as discourteous or rude--and I've personally experienced many older people who do.

[Rejected]

It does sound as though your DIL may have some control issues, but I think some things may account for it.
1. She's a new mom and I've learned from observing all my siblings & friends with their firstborns that they are extra cautious, uptight, they have in their head a certain way of doing things and will eventually learn to lighten up and relax more.
2. It seems as though you and her husband talk(your DS) quite a bit about her and some of it is negative. She could be resisting you because of this as well. I just have to say that if my DH and my MIL were talking about me in this way I'd be upset to with both of them. Just a few examples:

"I asked DS if she had decided to take baby to daycare, would she have suddenly demanded that go to her house instead? "

"I know that I'll be walking on eggshells - and have already discussed this with DS"

"We laughed at that "rule," told DS in no uncertain terms that a) we never planned on being there with her; b) she could make a rule for us to be there, we would not show up; and c) what was she thinking, duh!!!! But guess who did end up in the delivery room with her?  Yep, her parents.  We didn't care one way or the other, but DS was laughing, and rubbed it in big time, saying, "Hmmm, guess your rule got overruled!!""

"She mentioned to DS that one of the issues of family watching the baby was that she couldn't fire family if she wasn't happy.  DS told me and I replied, "Oh, she absolutely can!  If she doesn't like the way I watch that child, she is open to fire me . . . but it works both ways.  If I'm unhappy, I can quit as well."  I don't think DS thought of that."

"Incidentally, DS thinks it's another of her over the top rules, and hmmmmmm, he's the father."

Maybe next time you have something negative to say about your DIL(which is completely normal and understandable), talk to your own DH or on here instead of coming between your DIL and her husband.

[Rejected]

also, sorry forgot to add this, the next time your DS comes to you to complain about his wife (if he does) tell him to work it out with her and that you don't want to get involved.

[holliberri]

Rejected, that is a good point. Most people don't know it on here, but I left DH early on in our marriage due to the pow-wows that went on at my expense. It wasn't for very long, and while I would never ask him to cut his mom off, I was willing to cut him off for it.

I had purchased bed clothes for our guest bedroom when I was home and he threw a fit. I said, "Your parents need something on the bed when they visit." He felt that $120 was too much to spend on a comforter and sheets. I, then, unfortunately, needed a $130 batter for my old VW (dear old Bess).  He called yet again and we had a fight.  At some point, he got the impression that I married him for money. You know, the $600 paycheck every two weeks that Airmen get? Yeah, that kind of money. I guess he forgot that I left my mortgage job at the height of the refinance boom to move overseas in the first place.

I received a phone call from MIL: "DH told me about your finances. I was happy to coach him through the right way to handle things. I told him what to say and how to say it. I thought I would call you as well and tell you that I believe my 34 years of marriage experience really qualifies me as an expert on these things..." Side bar: my parents are divorced; not that I'd ask their advice about my marriage even if they had stayed together.... "I can coach you too. Why don't we go over some of the things you don't like about DH and I can tell you how to handle it? I am excellent at resolving conflict."

I got off the phone and said, "Thank you." For the love of all things good, I don't know how I managed that.

1. DH still handed it pretty poorly; so her coaching skills were awful.
2. I don't need a referee.
3. What is one supposed to do when their car batter keeps dying and they have to drive the interstate? Cross your fingers that someone will be nice enough to give you a jump?
4. Does it ever sound like a good idea to tell a mom the bad things about her son? Would she believe you? Doubt it.

I flew back to Italy, packed up my things and moved into a hotel until I could save up money for an airline ticket home. A few days later, he actually FOUND the hotel I was in somehow and told me he was sorry. He said he has NO idea where he got that idea that I was a cash cow. I said, "I guarantee that if I got my mother involved in our issues, she'd be a bigger cheerleader. The only time I'll need that is when I've already decided that I'm out the door. I was secure enough in my marriage that I don't need one of those...were you?"

I trust him enough to think that it was an honest mistake, not an ongoing thing. So far, I think he's held that end of the bargain.

[Pen]

also, sorry forgot to add this, the next time your DS comes to you to complain about his wife (if he does) tell him to work it out with her and that you don't want to get involved.

Yes! As tempting as it may be to jump on in with complaints about DIL or to listen to him rant about her, do not do it. Even if you suspect DIL is badmouthing you to DS, as ours was, don't go there. Take the high road and hope your ethical behavior will inspire DIL to do the same.

When our DS came to us, livid about DIL's snotty behavior towards us, we told him we were not going to discuss it with him and that he had to work it out with his wife because she came first now. Since then she hasn't been more accepting of us, just more tolerant. We'll take it!

[SassyDI]

1Glitterati, please elaborate. Where did ST say that saying "no" to an older person was not well-mannered or courteous? I'm so confused; I thought ST was discussing inconsiderate or thoughtless behavior.

Confusion is my middle name these days, sorry. Help?

I could have been clearer---I have a harder time with posting now that I can't go back and grammar fix or add or delete sentences.  I tend to write in a stream of consciousness style and then clean it up.  Sorry...drove off on a tangent.

ST did not say saying no was...but I do see a great many people of older generations who do think that simply by virtue of their age and role in a persons life, that if they aren't agreed with that they are being disrespected.  Age doesn't buy agreement in and of itself.  It may have in the past...but it doesn't now.  I don't see disagreement in and of itself as discourteous or rude--and I've personally experienced many older people who do.

I agree with this statement.

[holliberri]

Pen's approach is perfect.

When in doubt, I draw myself +/- charts.

Me not saying anything:

+ for MIL: no need to kick her when she's down in my book
+ for me: the high road is so incredibly satisfying
+ for me: the stuff I don't mention comes to light anyhow. Patiences is a virtue.
+ for DH: he's not in the middle.

Me saying something:

- for MIL: it makes her looks bad.
- for me: it also makes me look bad.
+ for me: I felt like I really had to get it off my chest!   
- for me: I felt guilty for saying it after the fact. 
- for DH: he's inescapably in the middle.

Eh, you get the gist. In-laws do involve a certain amount of politicking. The best road is the one that makes everyone look good, no matter how much you want to make the other party look bad.

[Pen]

1Glitterati, please elaborate. Where did ST say that saying "no" to an older person was not well-mannered or courteous? I'm so confused; I thought ST was discussing inconsiderate or thoughtless behavior.

Confusion is my middle name these days, sorry. Help?

I could have been clearer---I have a harder time with posting now that I can't go back and grammar fix or add or delete sentences.  I tend to write in a stream of consciousness style and then clean it up.  Sorry...drove off on a tangent.

ST did not say saying no was...but I do see a great many people of older generations who do think that simply by virtue of their age and role in a persons life, that if they aren't agreed with that they are being disrespected.  Age doesn't buy agreement in and of itself.  It may have in the past...but it doesn't now.  I don't see disagreement in and of itself as discourteous or rude--and I've personally experienced many older people who do.

I agree with this statement.

By the same token, there are young people who outright dismiss anything anyone from an older generation has to say even if it has merit. My DIL announced one day that she "hates old people!" No one specifically (besides us.) She didn't give a reason, just said she hated old people.

[SassyDI]

also, sorry forgot to add this, the next time your DS comes to you to complain about his wife (if he does) tell him to work it out with her and that you don't want to get involved.

Yes! As tempting as it may be to jump on in with complaints about DIL or to listen to him rant about her, do not do it. Even if you suspect DIL is badmouthing you to DS, as ours was, don't go there. Take the high road and hope your ethical behavior will inspire DIL to do the same.

When our DS came to us, livid about DIL's snotty behavior towards us, we told him we were not going to discuss it with him and that he had to work it out with his wife because she came first now. Since then she hasn't been more accepting of us, just more tolerant. We'll take it!

I have to say the DIL does know whats going on if they don't thats an even bigger problem.  My DH knows pretty much everything I tell my mother about our lives.  If he didn't then that would be keeping a secert and that is not healthy for a marriage.  I think it is wise to tell them keep it in the marriage.  I am sure when DS is being snotty his ILs hopefully will tell the DIL the same thing. 

[SassyDI]

The last setence was not ment to come across as rude just saying all is fair in love and war.  And I think DIL need to live by the same standards as their hubby's do.

[LaurieS]

I am sure when DS is being snotty his ILs hopefully will tell the DIL the same thing.

Huh?  I'm not sure how I was suppose to read that

[SassyDI]

I am sure when DS is being snotty his ILs hopefully will tell the DIL the same thing.

Huh?  I'm not sure how I was suppose to read that

Just though my last sentence might have come off snotty that is all.