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Grandchildren ask for help because SIL hits them with belt

Started by fordellcastle, March 09, 2011, 07:54:52 PM

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Rose799

I get what you're saying Adil.  Just know that it doesn't always bring the outcome you have in mind.  While I did all right, it taught some siblings to be sneaky & lie, which only lead to bigger problems for them & dp's.  You just never know where that fine line is. 

Rose799

Quote from: fordellcastle on March 10, 2011, 07:55:55 AM
Thank you for the advice. I have called DCFS to ask if they had an ongoing investigation, but was told it is confidential.

You can bet that the school reported it.  They're required to...

holliberri

Rose,

I can't imagine how hard that was to do, but I have no doubt you did the right thing.

I too, was belted, and I can say it changed my behavior when I was around my dad, but not my behavior when I wasn't. I was very afraid of him until I got to be 11 and too old for hitting, according to him. That started my period of discipline, I think. It helped us built a certain amount of trust and it taught me to think about my actions all the time, not just when he was around. 

holliberri

Quote from: AnonymousDIL on March 10, 2011, 10:56:55 AM
Quote from: justus on March 10, 2011, 09:15:47 AM
Bruises on a little one's bottom doesn't immediately make me think abuse. If the child doesn't like being punished they will fight back, which can result in the spanking hitting them a little above (lower back) or below (thighs) their bottom.

ADil,

Can you tell me what your definition of abuse is if a physical altercation between child and parent and bruising on the bottom is not?

Rose799

Quote from: holliberri on March 10, 2011, 11:45:09 AM
Rose,

I can't imagine how hard that was to do, but I have no doubt you did the right thing.

I too, was belted, and I can say it changed my behavior when I was around my dad, but not my behavior when I wasn't. I was very afraid of him until I got to be 11 and too old for hitting, according to him. That started my period of discipline, I think. It helped us built a certain amount of trust and it taught me to think about my actions all the time, not just when he was around.

My being the one who reported it allowed for a better exchange between dm & dc, while dc were in foster care.  But I think calling anonymously is the better route.  It may have kept fordellcastle off the hot seat.  I felt I had no alternative.   I couldn't have slept or faced myself in the mirror if I hadn't placed that call.  Remember that, fordellcastle, whenever the going gets rough. 

I meant that the sneaking & lying were for df's behalf.  It taught us to roll up our skirts "after" we'd left the house & some lied about where they'd been or with who.  if you know what's coming, you learn what not to do... 


AnonymousDIL

Quote from: holliberri on March 10, 2011, 11:49:37 AM
Quote from: AnonymousDIL on March 10, 2011, 10:56:55 AM
Quote from: justus on March 10, 2011, 09:15:47 AM
Bruises on a little one's bottom doesn't immediately make me think abuse. If the child doesn't like being punished they will fight back, which can result in the spanking hitting them a little above (lower back) or below (thighs) their bottom.

ADil,

Can you tell me what your definition of abuse is if a physical altercation between child and parent and bruising on the bottom is not?

As I said before, there is a thin line between abuse and discipline. When you discipline a child, you are doing so out of love. "Whom the Lord loves He chastens, and scourges every son whom He receives." Hebrews 12:6... As a Christian, it is my responsibility to raise my children in a manner that is pleasing to the Lord. And that means discipline.

When you abuse a child on the other hand, it is done out of anger. In the words of Yoda "Anger leads to pain, pain leads to hate, and hate leads to suffering." It is very damaging to a child when they are "disciplined" out of anger.

So, I guess I draw the line in the parents attitude. Is he/she angry at the time of punishment? If so, then it is abuse. If not, then it is discipline, regardless of the consequences of the discipline technique.

holliberri

Quote from: AnonymousDIL on March 10, 2011, 12:26:04 PM
Quote from: holliberri on March 10, 2011, 11:49:37 AM
Quote from: AnonymousDIL on March 10, 2011, 10:56:55 AM
Quote from: justus on March 10, 2011, 09:15:47 AM
.So, I guess I draw the line in the parents attitude. Is he/she angry at the time of punishment? If so, then it is abuse. If not, then it is discipline, regardless of the consequences of the discipline technique.

A broken arm given out of discipline is completely different than one out of anger?

There are many other forms of discipline than hitting, spanking and bruising.

holliberri

And I'm not even saying this as someone who is 100% against corporal punishment. I am just very confused as to why anyone would think bruises are acceptable on a child's body. There's a big difference between a hit and some form of punishment that leaves a bruise.

lancaster lady

If this family were in the UK they would be behind bars now  and the GP's would be looking after
the children .
There are no second chances .Once the school was alerted that would be it I'm afraid .
What on earth could two small children do that would warrant a beating that left bruises ?

Fordell:

I hope this is resolved soon , because like you I wouldn't be able to rest until I knew my GK's were safe .In my book nothing a child does would warrant such beatings .

ADil:

Can you tell where it says in any religion , that a child shall be beaten until it leaves marks
on it's body ?
Discipline yes ....beating NO !
discipline means no treats etc ......beating for me is abuse .
You are saying that it's ok to beat a child as long as you're not angry ??
If you are not angry ,then you wouldn't want to discipline the child in the first place .

holliberri

Quote from: AnonymousDIL on March 10, 2011, 12:26:04 PM
In the words of Yoda "Anger leads to pain, pain leads to hate, and hate leads to suffering." It is very damaging to a child when they are "disciplined" out of anger.

When I was hit, I felt angry. Anger lead to pain, and pain lead to hate, just like the noble Jedi master said. I definitely felt contempt for my dad when he hit me at times. So, there's a flip side to that argument too.

AnonymousDIL

If you are in fact disciplining your child, their arm won't get broken.

"He who spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is careful to discipline him." Proverbs 13:24

"Because the Lord disciplines those he loves, as a father the son he delights in." Proverbs 3:12

I realize that not everyone is a Christian and believes this way, but that's how I believe. Disciplining a child out of love is not something that comes easy, but just because a child is spanked, that does not mean that they are not loved. As a child, when you disobey your parents, you should be disciplined for it, whether it is a lie, failing to do their chores, kicking the family dog, or a blatant act of disrespect. If they understand why they are being punished (that you want them to be a better person so their bad behavior must be corrected), they will understand that you do love them, but you love them too much to let them stay that way.

AnonymousDIL

I think the big issue here is the use of a belt. Have you everhad a child spanked with a belt where it didn't leave bruises? A belt is difficult to control. A paddle on the other hand... Additionally, the bruises were on his bottom. God gave us extra padding there for a reason.

Rose799

Is it abuse if it's prefaced with, "This is going to hurt me more than it is you?"  I don't think df was angry, but he did mean to send a message.  Thank goodness, it didn't happen often, but when it did, we had trouble sitting at school the next day or two.  I did spank mine, but reserved it for special occasions like running out in to traffic.  The worst punishment my dc received was having to stand back to back, touching one another, till they made up after a spat.   :)


holliberri

Rose, I got that message every time I was hit too...and now, not only were you hitting me, you were lying to me.

Yes, I've had a belt with no bruises. I've had a paddle that also left bruises. I had a hand mark that also left a bruise. Trust me, I always understood the intent behind it was love, even Biblically ordained love, but the message that was sent was certainly never love.

No one here has argued against disciplining your child; there are a million and one ways to discipline a child without ever hitting them. Read about it.

The Bible is wrong when it says that I hate my child b/c I don't hit her. I know we're not supposed to talk religion here, but please don't use religious text to imply things about my relationship with my daughter that are on their face a lie.

Here you go, physical signs of child abuse, not discipline:

http://www.childhelp.org/pages/signs-of-child-abuse

See all you ladies tomorrow. I'm backing out of this one for now.

lancaster lady

Me too Holli ...I'm way to angry to post any more on this subject .
This is the year 2011 ...not the dark ages !!