estranged son

[luvpetzall8]

Thanks L, OW, HB, and Laurie....My dad IS  the one I have not spoken to in five years other than funerals, weddings and baptisms!!!  Now you know why!!!   I dealt with him a long time ago and that was strictly for myself....so glad to have that chapter of my life dealt with!  My son however, has never had a cross word from his grandad...never...this was  a real wipeout....DS has not spoken to grandad since January either....I do not know how this will go down between the two, but that is between them....and my DS knows this very well....when I had my meltdown regarding my father, it was difficult for the family to understand or support my decision to distance myself, and I went through alot with them all and the pressure they put on my to put my stick back in the "Jenga" tower....I am so thankful I did not waiver...kyears of hard work led up to the final climas....anyway, OW and HB I do agree with you that this GF has had ALOT of rejection along the way, and she was sitting on ready when my words came out sounding like I was siding with my father....which I clearly was not...however, there was no calm dialogue here...there was just too much pent up emotion....valves needed to be released, assumptions were made in error, the whole thing was a train wreck....so now I willDS wants to  keep you posted as to the letter writing or the sit down discussion....they are 600 miles away, and DS has a suspended license and relies upon her to do the driving....I also wanted to comment here on "L's" comments....This reaction was exactly our initial reaction....b/c we do not know her, we thought Wow....this is who DS wants to share his future with
But after time passed and cooler heads prevailed we began to view things in a different light...and I knew how wierd I thought the emails and her comments were....there had to be some underlying reason for her to target me and write me......so you are right on L, OW, and HB.....once again WWU triumphs!!  to be continued.....and thank you all again....

[luvpetzall8]

Oh, and I wanted to say to "Laurie", grandad made his assessment of GF the first time he saw her on the November visit home....she is something to 'see'  ....and then when DS came home in January with three of the children, grandad read the signs...DS had not even been over to grandad's for the customary visit, but my dad knew he was coming to town as they did talk frequently....once they arrived my dad called that morning presumably to set up a visit....NOT.....and so goes the story.....the ammo he had was from his own opinions....certainly none of mine since I am incommunicado with him....this GF on first sight did not seem like the kind of GF my son has had in the past, nor the first wife....so the difference is there to observe.....however, back again to supporting my son and his choices and his right to run his life as he sees fit without our 'approval'....yes, that is the young man we raised....and he is a good man, I am happy to say.

[LaurieS]

Ok all I can now picture is Jesse James' new girlfriend with the head to toe tattoos.

I do understand your husband's and your concerns... I even can even see how her 5 children raise some red flags.. I hope she is what he is looking for because he is certainly taking on a lot of responsibility.  On the bright side, he still wants to be active in the family... shame the first real meeting was such a trying event.  Almost sounds like to many people were involved to introduce her children to you and your dh... I see where a one on one would be hard, but I think I'd still try for it and if that wasn't possible then at least speak with her on the phone.... we all know that letters and notes can be misconstrued unintentionally. 

[cadagi101]

Oh, and I wanted to say to "Laurie", grandad made his assessment of GF the first time he saw her on the November visit home....she is something to 'see'  ....and then when DS came home in January with three of the children, grandad read the signs...DS had not even been over to grandad's for the customary visit, but my dad knew he was coming to town as they did talk frequently....once they arrived my dad called that morning presumably to set up a visit....NOT.....and so goes the story.....the ammo he had was from his own opinions....certainly none of mine since I am incommunicado with him....this GF on first sight did not seem like the kind of GF my son has had in the past, nor the first wife....so the difference is there to observe.....however, back again to supporting my son and his choices and his right to run his life as he sees fit without our 'approval'....yes, that is the young man we raised....and he is a good man, I am happy to say.

Hi luv.,
can you explain 'she is something to see"
Just wondering

[AnonymousDIL]

anyway, OW and HB I do agree with you that this GF has had ALOT of rejection along the way, and she was sitting on ready when my words came out sounding like I was siding with my father....which I clearly was not...

I read what you put and if I were in GF's shoes I would have heard you as "siding with your dad." With the "welcome" your family as a while had given her, I think she had every right to say what she did to you. You need to get over that because in the grand scheme of things, that wasn't that bad. Let it go. Don't hold her past against her. My heart really goes out to her.

[Pooh]

Ok, all the events and assumtions and other things aside.  I have a real problem with GF calling the three children downstairs and yelling in front of them about "bastard children" and then cursing you, followed by herding them out.  To me, that shows she is not a good role model for her children.  It was like she called them down there and said that in front of them, to see if you would react so they could witness it.

I'm sorry, but a Mother that would do that and use those words in front of the children, I have no respect for.  If this was the first time, what is she going to say when they ask what a "bastard child" is?  The last thing children out of wedlock need is to feel like they have a bad title.

[justus]

Pooh, I agree with you there. The kids should never have been exposed to that. I can see why she reacted the way she did, but I am assuming she is at least in her 30s because she has had 5 kids, if so, she should have had a lot more control than that.

On old Prof. of mine once said that our first big love is about our parents. We either chose someone who is very much like them or very different than them. The second big love is a reaction to the first partner. Either we continue to try to work out the issues we had by choosing someone similar, or we intentionally go with someone who is just the opposite. Our third big love is about us assuming we work out the issues we had with our first big love.

Of course, this isn't written in stone. I have had only two big loves. xH was totally about my parents. He was a horrible mixture of all that was bad with both of my Ps. I did a lot of work between Hs and stayed single during that time because I wanted to do better for myself and my two kids, I didn't want to make a mistake in choosing my next partner. DH was and is totally about who I am and that is why we work so well.

So, Luv, I am wondering about your DS's choice of partner here. Who is it about? Did he chose someone just like his 1st W, or is this an attempt at a relationship with someone totally different?

Either way, try not to let them make their problems about you. Be supportive and loving as much as you can be so that they don't have some outside challenge to bond over.

I advise against writing letters because words can so easily be twisted without you there to explain yourself. Look at your son's letters. Make the trip. I think it will be worth it.

[overwhelmed123]

I am glad you have come to a new conclusion about this experience with the GF and a more understanding perspective of why she reacted the way she did.  Let's face it, she was judged.  She was judged by her appearance right off the bat.  You even said so yourself- she was a sight to see.  So even you and your H were silently judging her- and some people pick up on that better than others.

We all here realize that you were not taking your father's side because of all the dialogue we've had with you about it.  But be careful saying, "clearly you were not taking his side and GF just didn't realize it."  Honestly, I don't think it was very clear in the moment.  And especially not if I was GF.  If I was GF would be thinking, "How could she say that's just how he is when she doesn't even have anything to do with him?"  Just know that what's clear to you isn't always automatically made clear to others.  It wasn't ALL her misinterpretation.  I'm sure some of it was, but I'm sure everyone there could have communicated better in one way or another.  I agree with justus, I would really opt for a face to face if at all possible.  I feel like this can really end well if you are careful to backtrack and show her you are accepting of her (even if you truly are not- you have to fake it) verbally and non verbally.

I'm so glad we have helped!  Love hearing that!  But we couldn't have helped without you being willing to listen- so we're glad you did

[justus]

Oh, and, all too often the phrase, "that is just how he is...." is code for, "So, just shut up and take the abuse." We all have family members who are just mean and since we have been dealing with it all of our lives, we just shrug, don't take it personal and move on. But, this isn't so easy for new members of the family.

One of my flaws is that there are certain sorts of behaviors that I am keyed up to reacting strongly to. I have been a scapegoat and door mat for most of my life, so if I perceive anyone trying to use me as either of those two things, I tend to overreact. I am wondering if the GF has the same issues with being called such names.

[overwhelmed123]

I agree, justus, and that's part of what I was trying to say too.  Plus, it's unfair to give grandpa an excuse like "that's just him!" But think poorly of the GF because of her reaction.  If we're saying "that's just how people are!" then she should get an excuse, too.  After all, she was only REacting in defense of what was said about her.

[Pooh]

I agree Justus, but I still have an issue with her communication style.  A Mother of 5 in (like you said) probably at least late twenties, early thirties that thinks it is acceptable to scream curse words after calling children in to witness it, doesn't inspire a vote of confidence in me.  Understanding her reaction may have had nothing to do much with the incident, but probably a wall she has built to protect herself.  Even if she wasn't in the right state of mind to try and understand and communicate,  she could have looked at them more calmly saying, "I don't appreciate the words and insinuations that I am a bad person, so I am chosing to take my children and leave", and then do so, would have give me more hope for future conversations and shown more maturity.

[Pooh]

I agree, justus, and that's part of what I was trying to say too.  Plus, it's unfair to give grandpa an excuse like "that's just him!" But think poorly of the GF because of her reaction.  If we're saying "that's just how people are!" then she should get an excuse, too.  After all, she was only REacting in defense of what was said about her.

I don't think poorly of GF because she got upset OW.  I think poorly of GF because she called children in to witness it and said words that were inappropriate for children to hear.

[overwhelmed123]

I'm not saying you did, Pooh, and I'm not excusing her actions.    But it was an issue for luv.  And the emails that were sent to luv from GF reacting the way she did was an issue for luv, too.  Understandably so.  But I think some compassion from all sides will go very far in this particular situation.

[Pooh]

I agree OW, and seeing it from both sides is the way to go.  I just don't think we can tell luv to have compassion for what GF did, without also having compassion for luv for how GF acted.  If GF was cutting luv off and not letting her finish what she was saying or explain about GP, and how she didn't agree with him, and then doing what she did in front of the children, I can see where luv was saying she didn't make a great first impression, and where her concerns lie as well.

[Pooh]

And I am saying that because from the beginning of this thread, we all were questioning if luv was looking down on this GF because of her past, or something she did at their meeting.   After she has now explained how their visit went, I can understand more why luv has reservations.

I do still think DS is a grown man and has to make his own decisions, but can see where luv's concern comes from now.