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estranged son

Started by luvpetzall8, March 09, 2011, 12:57:26 pm

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justus

Oh, and about worrying if they are making a good choice. That is so difficult to tell. I know my Ps thought DH was not right for be because we "were so different." I was in my 30s and had just finished college. I was a lot different the person they thought I was which was the 18 yo I was just before I left home. They knew we were going to be divorced. It has been 13 years and we have a great M, a much better M than my Ps and my sibling have ever had. This I know because they all used to confide in me and tell me things I really didn't want to know.

I was sure SD was choosing the the wrong guy, and even now, 5 years later, I worry that their M is going to explode. SIL puts up with so much from SD, I don't know where he gets the patience. When they were engaged, I was just so worried about it, but I had to step back and remind myself of my own P's worries and how off base they were. If their M turned out to be a mistake, it was their mistake to make and learn from. God knows, my crystal ball was certainly flawed, so who was I to know if they would end in divorce? They could be happily married for the rest of their lives. So, I shut my mouth and was happy for them even when I wasn't feeling it, and it has worked out so far. I have an amazing GC from the union, so who am I to complain? They have both grown up in some surprising ways and make a good couple in ways I had not predicted. So much for the all wise and all knowing Pamme.

luvpetzall8

Hi all, to respond to the question whether the GF had offended us in some way or demonstrated poor character in some way the answer is 'yes'.

And the story goes on.....once the relationship began, they made a visit home to meet the fam.   Wow.....not good.  And I really do not know how to describe all the details of  the visit and make things clear or sound 'fair'.....  Let's just say the differences in people were very apparent.  I know my son has chosen this person and we have to respect that.  That is it in a nutshell. We have our work to do.  Because this is not apt to change any time soon, and we do love him and want to be a continued part of his life.   I have to work on my facial expressions, and my attitude and maintain a strong leash on myself.   I shared with my husband what you all had said and he said "Wait before you make any decisions, i.e.(letter writing, flowers, cards)  I am not sure I am ready to do any of that, nor am I sure we 'should' ".....So I will begin working on myself and getting to a place where I am ready when we do decide to make a move toward our son and his family.  Thanks again for all the wisdom....I have found the right place to vent.

overwhelmed123

But everyone is different and that's what makes the world go round.  Did she have a poor attitude with you or bad manners?  I mean, just being different?  I wish I could understand why she made such a bad impact on you...do you think you could elaborate at all on not how you felt, but what her actions were that upset you?

luise.volta

This is also the right place to heal :) Sending love...
Be kind whenever possible. It is always possible. Dalai Lama

L

Sounds like if you push him and keep telling him you don't approve it may push him even more into her arms.  He knows you don't like her so just back off now would be my advice.  Once you act like you don't care..you may be suprised...he may just decide she isn't the one for him.   He is an adult and he will have to live with his own decisions.  You don't have to act thrilled about her but I would just tell him you just want him to be happy but you feel that 5 kids is a lot to take on.   


overwhelmed123

I still am very curious to hear what her actions and behaviors were at your house that made such a bad impact on you?

Pen

We don't want to put down the mates of our friends, either. Even when they express unhappiness, it can backfire on us when they get back together. We might want to keep that in mind when our adult children take up with people we're not thrilled with.

I'm a bit curious as well, OW..my imagination can come up with some pretty wild scenarios. But only if you're comfortable, LPA8.

In my first M I was seen by my very wealthy society ILs as a total boor; in my second M, with more down-to-earth ILs, I was the well-bred, cultured one. Now I'm back to being a boor in DILs eyes. The truth is probably somewhere in between, perhaps skewing to boor a bit more than cultured these days, LOL.
Respect ... is appreciation of the separateness of the other person, of the ways in which he or she is unique.
-- Annie Gottlieb

luise.volta

Don't forget to factor in "sweetie", Pen.  :D
Be kind whenever possible. It is always possible. Dalai Lama

luvpetzall8

Hi all....wow what a day....I was on my second cup of coffee this a.m. when DS called....gulp....my husband looked at the caller ID and handed the phone to me....w/o any preparation, I said 'hello' for the first time since January 19.....I have to say I was so happy to hear his voice that for a moment I was just mom and chatting with my son...forgetting the three difficult letters and the hurt they brought me, and the conflict in emails....

Of course, that was a part of the conversation, and then we moved toward the 900 lb. gorilla....But I have to say in all honesty, we had uninterrupted time on the telephone to go point by point down each and every one of the challenges we felt we faced with each other and bring some clarity to one anothers point of view....while we may not agree on all issues, we did concede any false sense of victory over one another and agreed to respect one anothers point of view....

I told him his dad and I had discussed writing a letter to GF and asked if he felt that would be of benefit to her and us....he asked what we would want to say, and I told him basically what we had just done on the phone....go point by point and clarify where we needed to complete some unfinished thoughts and explain some things which were not allowed to be explained....

I appreciate OW123 asking for exactly what occurred which put her in a bad light with the family....I will attempt to explain....DS and GF had only come to town one other time prior to January, and that was in November...it was an overnight visit....very brief and she was introduced as a friend, and we did not see her as any more than that....now, my son had spoken of her back in the early fall and late summer as someone he had met, along with other people....he had joked about her being 'after' him, and she called him 'city' and he called her 'country'....we really took these as lighthearted remarks about some one we did not know, and no more than that....then when she came in November as a 'friend', we pricked up our ears but got no feed back, so......by January when they returned, they came for a week and brought three of her children....My father has been very close to my DS throughout his lifetime...he was the first grand on both sides and my dad has placed a great premium on their relationship for 37 years....when he came in to town with the GF and family, my father called one morning to speak with DS and they exchanged so very heated words (unbeknownst to anyone else other than GF)....that day went on with shopping and sight seeing with DS, GF, and children only....we were to get back together for dinner that night....When my husband and I came into grandmother's house with great aunt visiting, we felt there was 'tension' and something was amiss....DS and GF came into the family room from the back of the house, and the children were upstairs....my son began a dialogue by turning to husband and I and said "I spoke with Papa this morning"...then rolled his eyes...I looked at him closely and he spoke lowly and said "not good"....I said what do you mean what did he say, and the aunt and grand said "Oh, let's not go into all that right now, dinner is ready let's call the kids and eat"....DS said "No, I want to get this out in the open and tell Mom and Dad what has transpired"....He began....ugh....My father has a tongue on him that would make a sailor blush...he did not choose his words carefully when he bleep bleep bleepped his way in my son's ear that morning and GF was sitting right there and heard it all....My mouth fell open, I listened as did my husband....then I said "you know how Papa is, and we have all been on the receiving end of that tongue...I am not making any excuses for him, but I want you to try to sift through the profanity, vulgarity, and meanness of what he said and put that over here...and then".....and that is where my words stopped....GF  had been standing in the doorway, marched across the room, and said"This isn't about me!" and looked right at me....I said "well, it is in a" and she cut me off again and yelled up the stairs for the children....they came running down, she stood right in front of me and yelled "are you going to stand there and call me a whore and these children bastards?????!!!  You AND your father!!!@@##$$"  I looked like a guppy out of water ....my mouth closing and opening.....She took the children, took the keys, went to the door....great aunt followed, wimpering and begging her not to go out upset, don't drive with the children in the car upset, please stay and let's go over things, oh me oh my this is not good....but off she went....Well, my husband had my son's ear for the next hour....I DID NOT OPEN MY MOUTH....not once....at all....My husband covered alot of ground in a very calm concise manner....mostly cautionary....telling my son to move slowly, and take care....much to consider here...five children....mom is wounded....so forth....finally, when he began to repeat himself, I put my hand on his arm, and said "we need to leave"....."we need to be gone when she comes back"....DS "no mom, stay....we need to clear the air over all of this".....I said no absolutely not....she is upset enough....this needs to settle....they left the next morning, and the email's began.....She wrote and told me it had never been her intent to come between his family and him, but we obviously do not understand the nature of their relationship, nor will we ever, however, nothing and no one will come between them.....I did not respond....then another in which she called me a hypocrite, and very judgemental....Now I want ya'll to understand, I DID NOT SAY ANYTHING more than what I have conveyed here....This is where I was so caught off guard....And when I began to speak, the words were cut off and my thoughts were never expressed....After her correspondence, my son wrote three searing letters to me, and sent back his birthday gifts with a note basically telling me if she did not feel the warm fuzzies about me from here on out, he was to be counted out as well....As you can see, it was like an emotional Keystone Kops.....willynilly, pellmell, everybody everywhere.....ugh....when I found this website, I knew you were all familiar with episodes of this type and could give me some right thinking and direction.....I am glad I was able to speak with my son this morning without any chaos around...I felt he could hear me clearly and hear my heart, and know I DO respect his age and ability to choose for himself what his personal life should be like and with whom....I feel like I've written a book and I bet ya'll do too!!!!  Sorry so long!!!!

holliberri

Luv,

Is it possible she is so defensive about her situation because of all the past judgment she has already had? I imagine relationships have been difficult for her to come by and then when she encounters family for the first time, she is on high alert and ready for a fight.

I don't think she should've assumed you said those things, but I can see why she did. I don't think that makes her different than you all, I just think it means that she does expect that everyone (including your father) be accepting of her. She was already tense to begin with regarding his feelings about her. I don't agree with the conclusions she jumped to, but I do see how she got there.

I can not, for the life of me, explain the emails she sent...but is it possible that was what DS was trying to avoid? Do you think that's why he wanted you to stay to clear the air? It's too late now (and trust me, I would've left too), but do you think he foresaw this?

I think that maybe, since your son wants you to accept her, that all of you need to sit down and have a tough disussion. By tough, I mean, you all need to get it out in the open, and do not leave until things get resolved...and that can be hard to do. You need to go over exactly what happened, and maybe explain to her how your father is.

She has probably spent a lot of time defending herself, that she is always on the look out for people to judge her.

Best of luck to you. I do see that your son wants this to work out with you all, which is why a conversation between you, DH, DS and her might be of help. I'll be thinking of you.

L

I'm still puzzled...what did your dad say to your son in that phone call that upset your son? 

The GF sounds like she is off her rocker.  I feel sorry for you if this is the girl he is going to get serious with.  UGGHH!  I feel sorry for her kids.  When she walked up to you and yelled at you and cursed she showed absolutely no CLASS or respect for you.  She was a guest at YOUR relatives house.  Who does she think she is?!  I really don't even know what to add.  Good luck cause you are gonna need it. :-\

L

And you know what....no matter what your dad said to your son (and maybe he was out of line), she had no business acting that way towards you.  She sounds very inmature.       

overwhelmed123

I'm going to second what HB said.  I don't want to justify her behavior, but I'm assuming that grandfather said some pretty mean things about her or her past?  If that's the case, I do find it a bit of a double standard to blow off what your father said as "oh that's just how he is," yet judge this woman for getting defensive about it.  If "that's just how grandpa is," then perhaps everyone should be willing to look at her positive qualities and give GF the same benefit of the doubt?  I'm sure none of us can understand why she reacted to you the way that she did but I can imagine how defensive and judged she must have felt (with good reason, mind you) and she reacted accordingly.  I can't even imagine how I would react being in her position.  Perhaps when you started in with, "oh you know g-pa," she saw you "taking his side" when really no one should have been defending his actions.  Not saying that's what you did- but everyone interprets things differently and I am sure a LOT of things got lost in translation on that visit.   

overwhelmed123

Wanted to also add thank you for sharing the story!  It actually does shed some light on this. :)

LaurieS

Is this the father that you cut off and only spoke to at your other son's funeral, or have I completely mixed up posters?

I'm curious.. how is it that Grandpa trash mouth had any ammo to use against the son and his gf?  Obviously he felt that he had enough knowledge to form a negative opinion of the situation.  If this is the case then it was perfectly clear to the gf that she had been discussed, diced up and was ready for the barbecue pit.  I probably would have felt equally insulted. The emails that followed were probably the result of the hour long warning that your dh gave to his son about his assessment of the relationship.. Other words it doesn't sound like anyone had a single positive word to say to her or about her. 

What I had to kinda chuckle over and I know it's not funny.. but why would anyone be taken back by what the gf said about her perceived self descriptions that she felt was being applied to her and her children.  I mean with what all grandpa says and is excused for, that sailors tongue shouldn't shock anyone. 

I'm glad you spoke with your son... I know others will give high praise to the letter idea... I think I would do a one-on-one meeting with her if you really want for her to know that you're sincere.  Since I'm not sure how the grandpa fits into this family, I'm not sure what I'd do with him at this point.