Joshua Coleman Webcast Replay: 5 Most Common Mistakes Estranged Parents Make

[luise.volta]

Sending love, Jill!

[Tara]

Pooh,

I have often thought that the stages of grief you describe can be traversed in so many ways.  Some times all in a day, repeatedly or occassionally, sometimes as you say one at a time.   Just thought of this:  I can't remember when I gained true acceptance of my first husbands death.  I was divorcing him, but he was my high school sweet heart and I was 22 at the time and the grief was profound, but there were no grief counselors or groups in those days

[luise.volta]

I like the word experiences in place of stages, so we don't count on chronology or even consistency.

When I lost my first husband we had been divorced for over 25 years and it felt huge. We never saw each other or communicated...but we had four sons together and had know each other since we were three.

[Pooh]

I hear you Tara.  I think many times when we grieve over the loss, we are actually grieving for the person they used to be, or how we perceived they used to be.  After I got over the initial anger stage with my Ex, and didn't think about running over him over in my car every day, I realized that I was also angry over the loss of the person I loved 20 years prior.  But then I was angry with myself, because in reality, he was still the person from 20 years prior, I had just perceived him differently then. 

I can't tell you when I accepted my divorce.  It just finally happened at some point.  I think we are lucky now to have people that understand that divorce, or just the loss of an important relationship is similiar to grieving over a death.  And I don't remember having grief counseling available back when I was 22 either, so that had to be very hard on you.

[JaneF]

I also just listened to the webcast, but maybe it was not a good day for me to do that! A part of me does understand what Mr. Coleman is saying, but then another part of me is saying...Hey wait a minute here, what it sounds like he is suggesting is kissing my little brats backside! I personally have been given no excuse as to why the estrangement, I read about it on Facebook, and I am frankly angry about that. His "reason" is because I don't DO ENOUGH FOR HIM AND DIL. HER FOO is ALWAYS giving them cars, or money, or buying them stuff, so I am expected to do the same, and they are angry that I don't??? If that is the excuse for estrangement, then to be honest I am still going from sad, to hurt, and today I am just plain ticked off. I guess I did not want to hear that I should not expect DS to have empathy or I should not expect fairness blah, blah! I feel like saying to heck with this, you and your wife are a couple of spoiled rotten brats, and if the only way to have a relationship with you is to give, or buy you what ever you want, I am better off WITHOUT a relationship with you. Now quite possibly I'll get over some of this anger tomorrow and will reconsider my thoughts, but for today NO. It is hard for me to understand how a person can group a bunch of folks into one category. I mean there are always variances in each family dynamic right? For instance if there is mental illness involved, or abuses, or drug or alcohol issues, I wonder if his advice would still be the same? Just a thought. Sometimes saying nothing negative at all, or just backing up and giving them space, or not responding in anger (or in any way actually) to terrible things they say or do makes no difference anyway. I have not said a peep since summer, have not called them, only have sent a text at Christmas ( a simple Merry Christmas), a simple Happy Birthday message to older GD...period. I refuse to fight and argue, which is what I think they wanted (thus the reason for putting it on my Facebook wall). But I also refuse to take any "guff" to be "honored" by a few visits a year so they can come get "expected gifts" from us! Okay, I need to count to 10, breathe, take a nice tub soak, and have some ME time. Thanks for allowing me to vent again. I will adjust my attitude now, and enjoy the rest of the day...the sun is shining, and I have a lot to be thankful for.

[Rose799]

I'm really sorry you're enduring this, too, Jill.  Like you, I get nervous about upcoming visits.   I know it's really hard, but try to just be yourself & go with the intention of having a good time.  When dd sees that you are relaxed, she may be more apt to let her guard down, as well.   We are allowed so few visits, make the most of it, & enjoy your little gd to the fullest.  We're afraid our dc won't love us for who we are, but if we're always walking on eggshells around them, how will they know who we truly are?  Go & have fun, if dd's not happy about that, so what?  I'll be thinking about you...

[holliberri]

Jane,

I think if you hadn't done that, your attitude wouldn't be able to adjust.

If the only way to have a relationship with you is to give, or buy you what ever you want, I am better off WITHOUT a relationship with you.

Not to egg you on, but sometimes, I think that what you said right here, can be considered a form of acceptance. I know it doesn't  help, but I don't necessarily see a lot of anger in that statement. I see self-protection.

[Rose799]

I also just listened to the webcast, but maybe it was not a good day for me to do that! A part of me does understand what Mr. Coleman is saying, but then another part of me is saying...Hey wait a minute here, what it sounds like he is suggesting is kissing my little brats backside!

Now quite possibly I'll get over some of this anger tomorrow and will reconsider my thoughts, but for today NO.

I need to count to 10, breathe, take a nice tub soak, and have some ME time.

I needed to be talked down after listening to it last night also, Jane.    Dd hasn't said what I've done wrong either.  I think the pendulum has swung too far.  She would never have survived my parents.  They would have given her something to cry about.   Cheer up, tomorrow is a new day.   

[Rose799]

Cheer up, tomorrow is a new day.   

Sorry, I don't know why I wrote that.  There doesn't seem to be much to cheer about some days.  This has been one of them.  I do hope tomorrow is better for you though, Jane~

[luise.volta]

Well, it probably worked for someone. It sounded good to me, actually. Sending love...

[Rose799]

Well, it probably worked for someone. It sounded good to me, actually. Sending love...

Maybe this will help to brighten someone's day...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVGzwj1A4QI&feature=rec-LGOUT-real_rev-rn-1r-29-HM

[Pooh]

I guess I had a different take on that part, although when he first said it, I had to go back and listen again.  I don't necessarily think he was saying cater to them by giving them every little thing in the world.  I think he meant more like we have to give in sometimes and not expect anything in return.

I took it as him saying for example (if they lived far away), that we might think it was fair for us to fly out to them half the time and then them fly in to us the other half.  We find that fair, reasonable and sensible.  I think he was saying that we might have to resolve ourselves to it being us that flies out all the time to see them, if their take is it is easier for us to come to them because of kids, work, blah blah blah.  And that even though we may not agree with that or find it compromising, that we might just have to conceed to have the relationship.  Just my thoughts on it.

[LaurieS]

I understand where you are at Jane... I also listened to it last night.. dozed off at the end so I'll have to do a repeat.. but what I heard was yes, if you want a relationship, after a cut off then you will need to bow down and take the brunt of their anger.    I heard that there is no place for "me" in any conversations, not sure if he was implying that this will be a life long approach.  I could be wrong but I thought I heard him say basically that we created  this mess, and now we have to play the game.  Other words, we were the ones to teach our children entitlement so why should they think any differently now.  On that I'd have to agree, I think kids are being taught that, and "that" was taught 20+ years ago.

I don't think I can subscribe to that philosophy of accepting a defeatist role because I do not feel that I personally raised my kids this way.  Since society, peers and everything else combined had equal if not a greater impression on my kids, it's hard to say that my own children were not of the same mind set.  But then again I'm not having a real issue of being cut off at this point either.

The audio seminar did provide great insight on how the entitled young adults view life in general.  Hopefully some situations can be avoided with this basic knowledge.  But there did seem to be a very fine line in what he was suggesting you do and allowing yourself to be abused.

[jill]

Hi Laurie,
I agree, if you want to have contact with your child, you must "do it their way".  My odd told me that if I did everything the way she wanted, maybe we could at some point be friends. I doubt that we can because I do not have to watch everything I say or "knuckle under" to my friends. They accept me as I am, and I accept them, if they did not, we would not be friends.  But with our children. everything has to be the way they want it.  It is like everyone is on the same level, just because you gave birth to some one, does not make you any more important in their eyes.

[JaneF]

Thanks girls for all the honest replies. I guess I was just thinking that for the past dozen years I HAVE been doing exactly what Mr. Coleman suggested, just to keep some relationship with DS and DIL and Gd's, and all I got for my efforts was barely a crumb. And that is probably more than I got to be honest. Sorry for my attitude today, I am rarely such a grump. I did see good points in the webcast, and if those suggestions work for some I'm all for it, it just does not work in my case at this point. I really agree with the post that said it was like "self protection" on my part, you hit the nail on the head! I also agreed with the post about not raising my kids to be "entitled", but dear old ex did just the opposite, in my opinion of course. I forgave all that past baggage with ex (severe physical and emotional abuse to me and ODS), and many years after divorce I attended "group support" meetings for him when he ended up a drug addict and then in rehab. Not only did I do that for him, I wrote off over $20,000 in child support he owed. So I am sincere when I say I forgave past events. However, after his recovery (and I am glad of that), he met a gal and got married and decided he wanted nothing more to do with his kids or grandkids because "he has a new life now", and the new wife is a lot like my DIL and wanted his family out of his life. And I refer to his kids when I say family, not me. We were very civil, and I took care of his mother 2 years ago while she was dying of lung cancer. His sister needed all the help she could get, and ex MIL was one of my best friends so I felt honored to do that for her. I miss her terribly. Accept my apology for the grouch I am today, been a hard month. Grandfather passed away, father actively dying now, and mother recently had heart attack and has other health issues. Not an excuse, just overwhelmed. Raising a grandchild keeps me busy, but we love her dearly, I have the best husband in the world, and I am healthy...I will try to be back to my usual self now and move on. Thanks for the ears today, blessings to you all, and thanks.