Dr. Phil show re:cults

[LaurieS]

On a side note, I don't think it is good to be around anyone (not DH's FOO or My FOO) 5-7 days a week on a regular basis. I could barely stand to go on a vacation with my FOO, and have no desire to repeat the vaca with DH's FOO. It was a nightmare. Completely centered everything around MIL/SIL. DH and I weren't even allowed to go for a walk on the beach by ourselves. 

Short of a two day outing, I have no desire to go on vacation with my extended family.  Well unless maybe a cruise where everyone can go off and do their own thing for days on end.  Because in the end.. someone is gonna make it personal.

[Pooh]

I'm with you guys on the vacation thing.  I did it once with my Ex's family and I said never again, because just as ADIL said, it was all about them and what they wanted to do.  I wouldn't want to go with my parents either, and I love them.  To me, vacation time is for relaxing and having fun, and that is hard to do if you have to try and accomodate everyone's wishes.

[LaurieS]

Pooh.. don't you often feel like only you are being blamed for feeling this way..  I know that is what ended up happening within my own family.. my son was at one point convinced that only I had these issues.. When my dh spoke with him, he said yeah I know how mom feels.. DH went on to say that this was also how he felt even if he was better at keeping it to himself... Eventually my dd called her brother.. in his mind, mom put her up to this.. when in fact everyone sees what is going on and everyone is reacting in their own way.

At first I said to the other family members.. maybe she will not feel as threatened if she thinks this is my isolated problem.. not any more... I turn my back and I choose not to indirectly protect her from her own actions any longer.

[Pooh]

I did in the beginning.  I figured I was just seeing these things because I was Mom.  But after his friends starting commenting on it, and then my Mother said something (who never says anything and is the most unintrusive person ever), and then his brother, well it made me realize it wasn't just me.   And this sounds bad, but I actual feel better about my situtation because it isn't just me having problems with them. 

[LaurieS]

I did in the beginning.  I figured I was just seeing these things because I was Mom.  But after his friends starting commenting on it, and then my Mother said something (who never says anything and is the most unintrusive person ever), and then his brother, well it made me realize it wasn't just me.   And this sounds bad, but I actual feel better about my situtation because it isn't just me having problems with them.

Oh I agree.. but do you think the dil/ds combo feels that it's just you and everyone else is following suit?

[Pooh]

I would say in the case of my Mother, YS and other family they probably do feel that way.

[Pen]

ADIL, to answer your question from my situation, it is not assumptions, but from dealing with it.  It is from his friends calling me and asking me can I please talk to him about them not being allowed to hang out with him any longer.  It is from being with my DS and having her call or text 20 times with no real issues, justing wanting to know every move he makes.  It is from family gatherings in the past where if he walks over to talk to my Dad or his Brother, she will hurry after him to listen to everything being said.  It is from her not allowing him to go anywhere without her.  It is from my YS calling me and being upset because he and his brother had planned to go play golf (when he came in on a 3 day military leave after being gone for 8 months) and then his brother calling him back and saying he couldn't go unless DIL could go with them.  It is from watching her personally pitch a fit every time he wanted to go do something with me, his brother or his Dad.  And yes, it is from my DS telling me himself that he is not allowed to do anything without her. 

I know you were asking in earnest and I know that there are MILs out there that blame the DIL for everything when it is not them, and that is a horrible position to be in.  But in my case, I have witnessed it firsthand and so has much of my family.  It is a combination of all these things, with everyone that causes me to say my DIL is controlling.

Pooh, right after the marriage my DIL started speaking poorly of DS's friends who had been integral parts of the wedding party. DS then started pulling away from them, citing various reasons that sounded like DIL's words. It was sad to see DS become estranged from his past. It was comforting in an odd way to know we weren't the only "losers" to be jettisoned from DS's life. I've noticed a couple of his friends are back on the scene, tenuously. Perhaps DS is waking up.

[holliberri]

I find a lot of similarities with how my DIL & her FOO treat my DS. He is with them 5-7 days a week, has been told that we're losers, is given expensive gifts (bribes?), has his schedule planned by DIL & her FOO, etc. etc. When he stands up for himself or for us he's thrown a bone. They don't want to appear to be over-controlling, after all.

I can see that, Pen. In your case, it's not just a DIL, it's an entire family. I think the cult analogy works quite well, although I wish I could help you out somehow.

[holliberri]

]
Oh I agree.. but do you think the dil/ds combo feels that it's just you and everyone else is following suit?

I spent a lot of money on therapy to learn just b/c someone feels one way or even verbalizes something like that, it doesn't make it true. I got enormous relief from that, even if I didn't manage to change their  mind.

Plus, in this situation, it's everyone else's opinion versus theirs. Majority rules and all! 

[AnonymousDIL]

@Pooh, somehow I had missed your response about your DIL. She really does sound like a piece of work. I definitely understand why you say she is controlling. Non of the young marrieds that I know are like this, so I have never witnessed it first hand. So sorry that you have to go through this. How long have they been married? Any chance he is going to leave her? He obviously sees that he is isolated from the other people that he cares about.

[Pooh]

Mine started when they were dating and engaged.  He had tons of friends and all of a sudden, didn't seem to be doing anything with any of them.  I finally asked him one day if he was having issues with his friends, and he reluctantly admitted that if he went anywhere with any of them, she called constantly.  And had even gone as far as driving to their houses if she found out he was with one of them.  His take was his friends didn't understand and so he was just not going anywhere with them anymore.

His friends that spoke to me a couple of times told me that it was so hard to have any time with him because she was calling constantly and was showing up at their houses.  They said when they tried to talk to him about her, he would get mad at them and tell them it was none of their business and they didn't understand how much she loved him..  Their take was they quit calling and asking him to do anything because it was always a hassle to have to deal with her.

And then there was me trying to talk to him about it.  I was trying to explain that men and women needed friends too, and that being able to go do something without the other, should be an enjoyable time for both of them.  As long as he was spending plenty of time with her, everybody needed a "boys time" and "girls time" or just some "alone time".  And that although he might think it was cute and loving now, later on, he would come to resent it.  And that went over like a ton of bricks, because now I was lumped in with his friends...I just didn't understand.

I hope you are right Pen.  I hope that means he is waking up some and realizing he needs his friends too.

These were friends he had had since he was 5 and they were very hurt that he would just drop them that way.

[Pooh]

@Pooh, somehow I had missed your response about your DIL. She really does sound like a piece of work. I definitely understand why you say she is controlling. Non of the young marrieds that I know are like this, so I have never witnessed it first hand. So sorry that you have to go through this. How long have they been married? Any chance he is going to leave her? He obviously sees that he is isolated from the other people that he cares about.

They dated for two years, and have been married for a little over a year.  I am not sure if he does see it.  Hard for me to say that, as I know how smart he is, but I seriously think he thinks she does it out of love.

[holliberri]

I think people think it's okay for spouses to act like that, especially early on in marriage. I know I did a lot of things I shouldn't have when we first got married, and so did DH. I think he may get sick of that, Pooh. Maybe it just hasn't come to a head yet.

[LaurieS]

Yes honeymooners move past that stage eventually and come back into themselves.. at least we can hope.

[AnonymousDIL]

So a little over 3 years... The novelty of that will wear off soon. Sounds like it has started. Maybe he thought she'd "ease up" after they got married. I think you'll be able to ride this out. He will probably leave her. She sounds terribly high-maintenance.

Any kids? Hopefully not. Don't want to have that in the middle of a separation/divorce. She sounds like she would be an awful mother and future MILFH lol

I think people think it's okay for spouses to act like that, especially early on in marriage.

Dang! I let DH have his "guy time" I should put an end to that! ROFL

Yes honeymooners move past that stage eventually and come back into themselves.. at least we can hope.

Our honeymoon was over before it began! lol