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Dr. Phil show re:cults

Started by Pen, February 16, 2011, 04:45:51 PM

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Pooh

Ha!  Nope....I still want to be a rainbow.
We must let go of the life we have planned, so as to accept the one that is waiting for us. -
Joseph Campbell

LaurieS

Ok then make sure you have a bow in your hair :)

AnonymousDIL

February 17, 2011, 08:57:03 AM #17 Last Edit: February 17, 2011, 09:04:21 AM by luise.volta
Hi, Ladies.

I don't know your DIL's so I am having such a hard time "relating" here. You say that your DIL's are so controling of your sons-- keeping them away from you and such. I know that my own MIL has a very similar picture of me. This picture could not be farther than the truth. My DH doesn't want to see his mother because, well, she can get kinda nasty with him (and everyone for that matter). So his "distance" actually has nothing to do with me.

But, as the DIL, I get all of the blame for her precious little boy not seeing her enough (which is total malarky btw, we have seen her 3 times already this year).

So, I guess my question is. Even if your DS is saying "Yes, Mom, DIL is mean keeping me away from you." How do you know that he isn't just telling you what you want to hear/passing the blame off onto DIL?

Additionally, DH wrote his mother a letter, which of course was blamed on me, even though he has told her time and time again that he wrote it on his own (which is the 100% truth), she continues to blame me for it.

holliberri

Quote from: AnonymousDIL on February 17, 2011, 08:57:03 AM

Additionally, DH wrote his mother a letter, which of course was blamed on me, even though he has told her time and time again that he wrote it on his own (which is the 100% truth), she continues to blame me for it.

I feel like I say this all the time on here, but letters/e-mails/texts don't really do all that much to deliver a message. It leaves you wide open for suggestions that he was forced to write it, and eliminates any chance for reasonable dialogue. If you have a message you really need to get across...doing it alone and in person seems the best way to do it to me.

luise.volta

You sound pretty angry and I don't blame you. However, in each case circumstances differ and when a DIL takes a stand against her MIL, it isn't hard to figure out.  Your MIL doesn't want to hear what your husband is saying.

It's probably about them, not you. Sending love...
Be kind whenever possible. It is always possible. Dalai Lama

LaurieS

February 17, 2011, 09:11:02 AM #20 Last Edit: February 17, 2011, 09:21:23 AM by luise.volta


Yes Adil, some moms are quick to lay blame.  When you are hurt, it's hard to imagine that the person you raised would purposely cause this type of pain.  But that isn't always the case, and since we are continually slapping ourselves for generalizing situations, a concentrated effort is often made to isolate situations.

When you asked:  So, I guess my question is. Even if your DS is saying "Yes, Mom, DIL is nasty by keeping me away from you." How do you KNOW that he isn't just telling you what you want to hear/passing the blame off onto DIL?

I guess you don't, but you do know and hope that you can trust people at their word... the same man that you are implying that would say and think completely opposite things is the same man that is telling his wife that she is the most important thing in her world and that he would never cheat on her with another woman... I mean really how do you know, if you are not willing to accept what is being said?

luise.volta

Excellent point, HB. Keep making it! And sometimes doing it in front of a third person works well. It's harder to refute that way.
Be kind whenever possible. It is always possible. Dalai Lama

LaurieS

February 17, 2011, 09:15:31 AM #22 Last Edit: February 17, 2011, 09:18:10 AM by luise.volta
opps  sorry.. I did't mean to leave Adil's quote in my posting.. why? because  I know that is not acceptable.. so my apology.. now Luise can you please modify that posting for me and I guess this one as well.. Thanks.. darn pesky mistakes

AnonymousDIL

Very true. If you can't trust what people are saying to you, it can make you a miserable self-righteous person (like my brother HaHa!).

And I am fast learning that it is pointless to ever write a letter to anyone in DH's family. Makes it difficult for me because that is my prefered way of communication. You can get out everything that you have to say without interuption. You can re-read and edit so it says what you want it to in a non-hurtful way. I really don't like confrontation. My brother says I am tactless and not diplomatic at all. He really doesn't give me enough credit, but the last thing I really want it to lose it and scream and yell at them that I hate them! LOL I really don't hate them, just some of the stuff they do sometimes. Especially when I can't understand Why they do it. But as Luise has said in the past, there is basically no point trying to figure out why. It'll only give me a headache.

holliberri

Quote from: AnonymousDIL on February 17, 2011, 09:25:44 AM
You can get out everything that you have to say without interuption. You can re-read and edit so it says what you want it to in a non-hurtful way. 

I felt this way for a long time too. What I learned was that it was cathartic for me, but it didn't do anything to solve the problem. In fact, no matter how non-hurtful I tried to be, my parents always (in my mind) "found" a way to be hurt. Writing a letter was giving me a way to get everything off of  my chest without allowing the other person a chance to do the same; if they felt compelled to respond, they wrote back, and that escalated things. That's basically non-communication.

My last fight with my mom finally ended when she said, "Please, stop writing me letters when you have a problem, it's too easy to take out of context, and I think it's inconsiderate of my feelings." A light bulb went off in my head. It's not all about me. If I want to genuinely fix the problem with the other person, I have to allow them their platform too, even if that means they interrupt me.

Pen

Quote from: holliberri on February 17, 2011, 06:44:37 AM
Did the show offer suggestions on dealing with something like this? I'm wondering, since it does sound so similar, if there aren't some tips that  would be applicable to your situations.

There weren't any suggestions, just observations. Dr. Phil kept saying he was just presenting the story and the audience could judge for themselves if they thought it was a cult. He had a cult expert give some warning signs, and the expert's conclusion was that it probably was a cult. The men who were accompanying the moms on the visitations cautioned them to stay as calm & unemotional as possible, no hugging or enthusiasm as it might scare their kids away (I find myself doing this!) The mother of the young man had to go to the compound to try to see him, and got a bit upset when she was denied access. Dr. Phil told her she shouldn't have kicked the door, and she agreed. He said he understood her frustration. The mother of the young woman called the cult leader evil, nasty, horrible, etc. There was no attempt at kidnapping, presumably because the kids were adults.

The ex-wife of the cult leader was also there. She said her ex husband was charismatic and charming at first, then became controlling. The cult expert said that's a classic sign; that these leaders are often narcissistic as well. They lure people in with their charm, convince them that their FOOs don't have their best interests at heart, limit access to the outside world, and tell them only the cult/cult leader truly love them. Eventually they are convinced that they are making the decision to cut off all by themselves. I find a lot of similarities with how my DIL & her FOO treat my DS. He is with them 5-7 days a week, has been told that we're losers, is given expensive gifts (bribes?), has his schedule planned by DIL & her FOO, etc. etc. When he stands up for himself or for us he's thrown a bone. They don't want to appear to be over-controlling, after all.
Respect ... is appreciation of the separateness of the other person, of the ways in which he or she is unique.
-- Annie Gottlieb

LaurieS

Very well said Holli... I agree a letter is still a confrontation, only it's very one sided and ends up being nothing more then you making a statement as to how you feel wronged.  And yes, there will always be hard feelings attached.

You've have to be able to have enough self-restraint to prevent yourself from latching onto their throats.  Once again it's communication you want and when one person shuts down to the point of screaming, they are no longer capable of hearing anything else from that point forward. 

AnonymousDIL

Quote from: Pen on February 17, 2011, 09:39:07 AM
I find a lot of similarities with how my DIL & her FOO treat my DS. He is with them 5-7 days a week, has been told that we're losers, is given expensive gifts (bribes?), has his schedule planned by DIL & her FOO, etc. etc. When he stands up for himself or for us he's thrown a bone. They don't want to appear to be over-controlling, after all.

That is very sad.  :( I really don't understand how anyone could poison you against your own family. It is just awful!

On a side note, I don't think it is good to be around anyone (not DH's FOO or My FOO) 5-7 days a week on a regular basis. I could barely stand to go on a vacation with my FOO, and have no desire to repeat the vaca with DH's FOO. It was a nightmare. Completely centered everything around MIL/SIL. DH and I weren't even allowed to go for a walk on the beach by ourselves.  ???

LaurieS

Pen.. It had to be hard to sit and watch that show if you could find so many similarities between what they were saying and your own life.  I'm sure you even dreamed about it last night.  I believe that it is possible that a person in a new relationship could almost be brainwashed and lose sight of his/her own values.  I would have thought that this would relate more towards females, but according to the membership of the cults there are many many men involved.  The difference I can see is that men are lured with promises of rewards.. women are lured easily when they are searching for love and acceptance.

Pooh

ADIL, to answer your question from my situation, it is not assumptions, but from dealing with it.  It is from his friends calling me and asking me can I please talk to him about them not being allowed to hang out with him any longer.  It is from being with my DS and having her call or text 20 times with no real issues, justing wanting to know every move he makes.  It is from family gatherings in the past where if he walks over to talk to my Dad or his Brother, she will hurry after him to listen to everything being said.  It is from her not allowing him to go anywhere without her.  It is from my YS calling me and being upset because he and his brother had planned to go play golf (when he came in on a 3 day military leave after being gone for 8 months) and then his brother calling him back and saying he couldn't go unless DIL could go with them.  It is from watching her personally pitch a fit every time he wanted to go do something with me, his brother or his Dad.  And yes, it is from my DS telling me himself that he is not allowed to do anything without her. 

I know you were asking in earnest and I know that there are MILs out there that blame the DIL for everything when it is not them, and that is a horrible position to be in.  But in my case, I have witnessed it firsthand and so has much of my family.  It is a combination of all these things, with everyone that causes me to say my DIL is controlling.
We must let go of the life we have planned, so as to accept the one that is waiting for us. -
Joseph Campbell