DIL feeling threatened?

[overwhelmed123]

Yes- has she always been this way with you guys?

[LaurieS]

No, not before they were engaged.. or I should say not that I really saw.  She appeared to be very understanding that my son has a family that is equally important to him as hers is.  She was great and understanding when my son wanted no one other then his brother to be his best man, yet little brother was out of the country, so they went with the missing man formation.  When my dh ended up having to have emergency surgery on their wedding day, she was all for going to see him in her gown and my son's dressed blues so dh could feel like he didn't totally miss one of the proudest days of his life.  So, no she appeared to be a pretty balanced person when it came to family.  We did see some of the 'but it's my wedding', I think that is most brides when under pressure.. but the day of, when disaster could have struck.. she rolled with it pretty well.

We really did not see any signs of our family being strategically eliminated until the first holiday season.. and then we really  got smacked upside the head when my son was facing his first deployment and she was hell bent on making that day about her family instead of allowing us the dignity of saying our goodbyes without it being a spectator sport... since then it's become a game and she's even admitted to it when she finally told my son that in the future she just won't let us know that her parents will be involved when we  come up  to visit them.. we'll find out when we get there. 

[Scoop]

Oh Pen!  I hate hearing the stories about your DIL!  Usually I have no problems playing devil's advocate, but with your DIL, I just don't know where she's coming from.

Alone visits - 4 in several years actually sounds about right to me.  I love my parents but I don't usually see them much without DH (my home town is about 6 hours away).  Once a year or so sounds about right.

As for DH visiting his parents alone, he doesn't do it.  I don't know why.  When we do visit them (2 or 3 times a year, they're 4 hours away) I try and give them space together without me, because I know how precious that time is.  Sadly, they probably think I'm avoiding them - you just can't win.

Now that I think about it, it seems like your DIL is possessive.  She's not peeing on him to mark him as "HERS" and that's IT!  Some people are super-possessive and jealous like that.  I have no insight because I don't *get* it, and in fact I HATE when people are like that.

The only thing I can think of is to work on your relationship with your DS, call him, text him, e-mail him and hope for the best.  I don't think you can get much out of this woman, it doesn't sound like she's very generous in the first place.

[Pooh]

Pen I also thinks its all about attention.  When DIL is with her FOO, she is center stage.  When DIL is at our family things, she is not center stage normally.  She is included but everything is not about her.  When she can dictate how the conversation goes and turns it to her and her FOO, she's center stage.  When they find out DS is there with us alone, it is now not about them being center stage or maybe they are afraid it is. 

[cremebrulee]

DH & I rarely get time with DS w/o DIL. When she's out of town on business DS will call or come by, or might even invite DH & I, together or separately, to hang out (!) We have long, drama-free conversations about various topics, current events, life stuff. If DIL knows he's with us she calls or texts constantly. She spends a lot of time alone/with DS with her FOO, though.

We cherish the four short visits (4!) we've had with DS alone since the wedding a few years ago. Not that we don't want to see DIL, but she doesn't like us which makes the visits very awkward. She dictates what we talk about (her & her FOO only), how much we talk (more than a couple of sentences and she gets huffy), what we do (she doesn't share our interests), etc.

What's an MIL to do? If we express a desire for time we might be seen as demanding and needy. If we don't ask we'reoften left alone because all is apparently well (squeaky wheel syndrome.) Perhaps if some DIL's would loosen the reins their needy MILs wouldn't feel abandoned and could lighten up.

What's up with that? Why is it considered normal for DIL to see her FOO alone but MILs/FILs are odd for wanting to see DS alone?

I'm sorry Pen, but there is something seriously wrong with your DIL....an adult child should have quality time alone with his family as well as, time with them with his wife and children...

and yanno, I bet your son cherishes those special alone times he has with you....more then you probably know.....

[overwhelmed123]

Laurie- that is so strange.  It's like some weird switch was flipped randomly. 

Pen- what about you?  Was your DIL like this before they got engaged or anything?  I just don't understand why a guy would want to marry someone like this.

[LaurieS]

Laurie- that is so strange.  It's like some weird switch was flipped randomly. 

Pen- what about you?  Was your DIL like this before they got engaged or anything?  I just don't understand why a guy would want to marry someone like this.

I don't thing a guy wanted to marry someone like this

[holliberri]

Pen,

I don't think your DIL feels threatened at all. I think if she did feel threatened, she would eventually outgrow this behavior. Feeling threatened seems kind of natural, and to a certain extent understandable. I also think that feeling threatened waxes and wanes: sometimes it's there, sometimes it's not. I think her behavior would be more erratic if that were the case.

She seems way too consistent with the things that she does (taking into account your other posts as well), and when I read your posts, I have a sense that she would like to think you're insignificant. I think she would like you to think you're insignificant as well.

I would call my DS for time alone with him if I were you...you're entitled to it. Just ask. Plus, I remember you said he wanted to come right over for his birthday; that may be what he needs. I'm not sure, b/c I don't know all the details.

I don't say this often, but I think your no pressure approach makes it all too easy for her to do what she does. If you want to spend time with DS alone, ask. I would keep asking too. I know I always say less is more, but in your situation, I feel like the less you get, the more you pull back (I'm sorry if that's not the case, you can tell me I'm wrong). I think he may say no to spending time alone with you, but I do think it'll keep that light bulb that has already gone off in his head lit, and he can have good reason to stand up to her again.

I know that's not your M.O., it's not mine either. But I think if you stop fighting for him, he might think there's no reason to fight for you anymore. I just worry that you're just going to go down without having said a word, and if something can be changed...why not say something?

[LaurieS]

She seems way too consistent with the things that she does (taking into account your other posts as well), and when I read your posts, I have a sense that she would like to think you're insignificant. I think she would like you to think you're insignificant as well.

Holliberri.. this is exactly how I feel we are being viewed ... this is how dil and her parents could walk into our home and basically refuse to speak with any of us.. yet they are there for dinner. We have definitely been made to feel as if our existence in our son's life is very insignificant, and so many of their actions are showing it. 

I always thought that dil's parents were innocent bystanders who did not see what was taking place.. but when I made it perfectly clear that I wanted us to say our goodbyes to our son without them in the picture they backed off, but were right back at center stage for this deployment.

My ys's Christmas present from ds/dil was 'accidently' left at her parents house, so the story goes... yet he was so unimportant to them that they could not mail the gift (gift card) or send it to my dil.. or take it to her since they had to go for a visit since Christmas to see her pregnant.  Let me not forget that the same thing was done last year, when she told my ds that the gifts were mailed, but ut oh come March she said oh I thought I mailed them.  I know that is silly stuff but it does add up and it adds up to the fact that we are not viewed as having any viable purpose for breathing their air.

[kathleen]

Pen,

I fear that if you push the envelope on this one in any way, you might be cut off completely.

Your DIL is a bully. I have one, too.

About five or so years ago, I read an article about Meredith Vierra (TODAY show) and her husband.  Each year they spent one holiday with her parents and the other holiday with his; in other words, Christmas with her family one year, Christmas with his the next.  So it was totally equal.
When it began to play out that we were supposed to spend every single holiday with her entire extended family or have no relationship with our son at all, I proposed this equal split.  She became furious and said it was ridiculous that one family should be "excluded" from a major holiday when we could all spend it together; of course, that meant only at their house with her entourage always present.  My son said, "I agree.  If you lived far enough so we all had to fly to get together, it would be different."  At that time we lived four hours north through hard, hard winter to get to them.  It definitely could not be done in a day, and of course, they didn't want us staying overnight in the house we helped them buy. 

I was warned not to give them any money for the house or anything else, by a MIL further advanced into MIL hell than I was, who had spent a fortune flying to Italy for a wedding and paying for it (she worked in adult education and had to save a long time for that money.)  Her DIL then cut her off.  It was years and years re-building any communication.  I don't want that to happen to you. 

I'm afraid this is fight-flight: stick with the bully and battle out your feelings by stuffing them down, or face possible extinction.  Bullies only understand getting their own way or brute force to stop them and of course you have no standing to use any force, which will only make it worse.

Meredith Vierra's mother and father-in-law are truly lucky people, as are her husband's, to have children who see things as equal for both families and work hard to set that example for their children.  No wonder people love this TV star so much (not to mention she gives away a ton of money on her other, Millionaire, show.)

The whole thing about much time with DIL's family and no equal time for you, and their intrusions on your relationship with your son, is outrageous.

Good luck and tell us what happens,

Kathleen

[holliberri]

Laurie,

I agree with everything your saying...but somehow, I think you'll find a way to make sure that you're heard. I think Pen needs to be heard. I know no one wants to be the bad IL that butts into a marriage, but I think Pen's DS sees it her way, not his DW's. He's spoken up in the past, and I think he may need a little nudging. Maybe he needs some help fighting for his FOO.

Plus, I think you know a lot of the reasons why your DIL acts the way she does; I don't think Pen has hardly any answers at all, and she deserves some.

I also think you and your DS know exactly how the other feels about your DIL (thinking Skype session here), it seems like Pen has been left only to guess, and hasn't given her opinion.

[seasage]

Pen,

I fear that if you push the envelope on this one in any way, you might be cut off completely.

Your DIL is a bully. I have one, too.

As do I. 

Pen, from my point of view, pushing the envelope is not a good idea.  That's the way I am operating anyway.  I really don't think my DIL feels threatened.  I actually think she feels embarrassed about many of the things she said to us four years ago, the last time we were face to face. 

The things she said that hurt me the most were the accusations we loved our other children more than her DH, our DS.  She based this on money; she thought we were giving our other children more money than we ever gave our son.  Now this is totally untrue.  We love our children equally and treat them equally.  But she comes from a family where money rules.  Her mother has millions, and she herself came into the marriage with a nest egg about 10 times the size of my own.  My DS is smart enough to know that all that money is hers, not theirs.  He wouldn't touch it with a 10-foot pole.  He borrowed money for a down payment on their house, because it is an unspoken agreement between them that her money is her money!  This tells me what matters to her.  I think she hates us because we are poor as church mice.  Her family didn't want her to marry DS because his family had no money and no status.

Anyway, I don't intend to confront DS about any of this.  I think he is terribly embarrassed about her actions also. 

[LaurieS]

Seasage .. I think my son is embarrassed by his wifes actions as well.. and now that he can not turn a blind eye to the fact that she has lied to him as well to get her way at times has added a terrible burden.  Simply no need for any of this.

[holliberri]

Meredith Vierra's mother and father-in-law are truly lucky people, as are her husband's, to have children who see things as equal for both families and work hard to set that example for their children.  No wonder people love this TV star so much (not to mention she gives away a ton of money on her other, Millionaire, show.)

Meredith happens to be a millionaire, who can afford to fly whoever she wants around, and fly to whereever she wants. I don't know the details of her story, but at least for DH and I, 50/50 split has proven near impossible, even though thats what both of our families wanted, and what we wanted:

Year 1: DH was in Italy. I didn't see him. He spent it alone. I spent it alone.
Year 2: DH's family had Christmas.
Year 3: DH and I could not justify spending $3,000 dollars on airline tickets. No one spent Christmas with us.
Year 4: We were en route to the West Coast...exhuasted. No one spent Christmas with us.
Year 5: Deployment. I didn't see him. Spent that one alone. All alone.
Year 6: Closed on a house in the biggest snowstorm on record for PA (Dec. 18), 3 months pregnant, possible miscarriage, unpacked an entire house by myself and got it decorated so I could entertain my ILs and have them comfortable in our new home. Mom was nice enough to cook dinner for them so I didn't have to.
Year 7: Christmas with my Dad, Mom (who lives a half hour away) spent it at her house.
Year 8: I have absolutely no idea what is to come.

I think that for awhile DH and I wanted to make our families happy. We quickly learned that wasn't what was best for us. I think if we had our way, and I think if our families think about it, they would've preferred to spend it with the dreaded ILs if it meant seeing their kids. This 50/50 agreement everyone worked out has only exacerbated hurt feelings and has resulting in a total contest when we can't meet the predetermined standard. We've since broken the agreement (yes, gone back on our word) and said whatever works for us at the time. The pressure is still there, but DH and I have learned not to commit ourselves to anything like that.

[LaurieS]

Don't you think life is a bit more interesting when you can fly by the seat of your pants?