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Thinking "control" is love

Started by 2chickiebaby, October 29, 2009, 09:53:48 am

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Ihopeuknow

So my point was you acknowledge and take responsibility and that's an empowering thing.  You can do so much by just getting that far.

2chickiebaby


AnnieB

October 29, 2009, 01:53:57 pm #17 Last Edit: October 29, 2009, 01:55:49 pm by AnnieB
Ha! 

Actually, I was just going to suggest that Doctor Phil would be the one who could talk to your DIL, Anna!


....and if I were you, Chickie,  I do not think I would necessarily be telling my DIl of any of my accountability.

Most often (in 12 step programs, for example) when we are accepting our own part of responsibility, we are doing it with ourselves.

With some people who are not very mature or emotionally healthy, they will use that as a weapon against you.

There's no point in giving them ammunition they don't need or understand, and hurting yourself.

But like Ihope, I think your wisdom and self-awareness  is to be admired!

2chickiebaby

A DIL is the most powerful force on earth!  She can be for good or for evil.  It hurts when she uses her kids against you.  Caught in a vice.  So sad!!!

2chickiebaby

Oh, don't worry...any weakness that's shown is used against us.  We know not to acknowledge that to her.

AnnieB

Quote from: 2chickiebaby on October 29, 2009, 01:59:52 pm
Oh, don't worry...any weakness that's shown is used against us.  We know not to acknowledge that to her.


Ha ha, I figured you did!  You're a wise woman, my friend!

2chickiebaby

No, I think I'm a total sucker. 

AnnieB

Quote from: 2chickiebaby on October 29, 2009, 02:06:13 pm
No, I think I'm a total sucker.


None of us are totally anything!    You're often wise in my book, anyway!

2chickiebaby

I was speaking metaphorically, of course.

Pen

Hi, everyone -

My dad fell for a controlling woman, and now he's totally dependent on her. She kept us apart, manipulated holidays and visits so much that my husband refused to participate because it hurt him to see me treated badly. My dad was in my neighborhood one day and invited me out to dinner, but I wasn't supposed to tell his wife because of her extreme jealousy. She's taken over his finances and re-written his will. He goes along with everything; she's convinced him she's got his best interests at heart. I've had to let him go for my own good. Now my DIL is pulling the same thing, although DS has stood up to her (at least he told us he has.)

Honestly, I don't see how I'm so threatening! I'm really not amazing, just a regular working drone and housewife. For some reason these women feel that it's OK to exclude me from my family. How can they sleep at night knowing they've caused another person heartache and loneliness? I'd feel horrible if I'd done that!
Respect ... is appreciation of the separateness of the other person, of the ways in which he or she is unique.
-- Annie Gottlieb

2chickiebaby

Penstamen!!
I am so glad to hear from you again.....I'm so sorry about your Dad.  I have a friend whose Dad married someone who was like that and it was such a shame because he was such a good man (I was secretly jealous of having a Dad like that).  He finally told his daughter how unkind she was to him.  He still remained with her. 

I also don't know what comes over these men.  She might have seen a great opportunity and seized on it.  I wonder if it's simply the thought that the men don't want to be alone? 

I just bet you that you are more amazing than you know if your DIL has to not treat you right.  I also don't know how they sleep at night but when they get their way, they seem to sleep well. 

I hope you know that so many of us are in the same boat and wish too that we could have lived in a different dream!  So glad to hear from you again.

2chickiebaby

One lesson I've learned by writing like a journal on this site is that we really are threatening to the DIL and with others, like J2b, threatened by her inlaws. 

I guess you're right, Anna, we should take it as a compliment, although it is awful.  I guess we must be really powerful for our inlaws, DILs and MILs to kick us out.

I'm so glad we have this journal and once again, Luise, thank you for helping us.  I have always heard that journaling is theraputic but now I know it's true.  Hats off to us. 

Heart to heart

cremebrulee

February 12, 2010, 07:16:53 am #27 Last Edit: February 12, 2010, 10:34:50 am by cremebrulee
Quote from: Ihopeuknow on October 29, 2009, 12:13:19 pm
Quote from: AnnieB on October 29, 2009, 12:04:02 pm
You know, there is a fine line between love and control -- and I think it is in the perception.

I've had similar thoughts, that my DIL is controlling my son.  But as much as I would like to think this is true (rather than that he is making choices I don't agree with or like), I have to give him more credit for being able to make his own decisions.

They may not be decisions I like or agree with -- they may be spot on, or they may turn out to be decisions he looks back on and thinks were mistakes (I have a huge pile of those myself!) 

When our children are small, we love them and make decisions for them because we love them.  They have to do what we say because we are the parent(s).   Are we loving them or controlling them or controlling them because we love them?

As they grow up, through adolescence - we are usually challenged.   Depending on the parent and child within the same family,  these challenges may be hard or they may be easy. 

Eventually we have to let go and let them make their own choices.  We have to give up our control -- with love.  It isn't easy!

It is tempting to put blame on the spouse our children have chosen for controlling them.

But I think that is unfair both to our children and their spouses if we lightly assume that.  We need to think deeply if our child is perhaps making choices we don't like, on their own.   Choices that may (for a little while, for a long while, forever) exclude us.  Are we blaming someone it is easier to blame because we don't love them?  And because it hurts so much to give credit where credit is due -- to our own child, making these choices, for reasons we strongly disagree with? 

Of course, I watch reality TV -- I see examples of cases where there really IS a spouse or spouse to be who is super controlling (Bridezilla's and Changing Spouses come to mind)-- I watch those shows and shake my head in wonder that someone would choose to marry someone like that and stay married to them....  I've never seen a case on those shows that fit my son and his wife, those personalities are just so extreme!

My son's wife does wear the pants in the family, as they say.  I think it is the rare couple where everyone is equal all the time -- someone usually is the leader.  She's the leader, he's the follower. That's his personality.  But I believe he chose her and chooses to follow.   It is a choice.  He is not powerless, he is choosing how to react.   I don't agree with what he's doing -- but he knows her better than I do.  Time will tell if he is right in handling this as he is choosing to do.  (I still don't like it)


Well said Annie.  It is a choice.  Andif more MILs could see that then the fault would fall less on the DIL and more on the interaction between the son and his mother.


it's not that we don't see it, we do...however, in cases where the DIL hates the MIL, like ours, she is most certainly a huge influence, on whether or not, our son's do contact us.  Yes, it is his choice, but he is definately going to do what is easiest for him...what gives him the most peace....not to mention, he feels disloyal if he doesn't go along with his wife

I do believe that most of our son's would like us all to get along...and I don't believe there is a mil here who wouldn't forgive and go forward if this foolishness would stop....

however, most of our DIL's refuse, and continue to reject...and I'm sure our son's hear them complaining about us, so it's easier for them to avoid us, rather then un nerve things at home....

also, when our DIL's dislike us, when it comes to holidays or visits...we do not get to see our son's and GC much, because the DIL comes along and after 45 minutes to an hour, she is ready to leave...she controls the visits as well....

In my case, they used to come to open they're packages, then leave...

The son's go where the wives want to be....

but yes, it is his choice....
and if we had DIL's who liked us, the situation would be so totally different, harmonious and productive.


cremebrulee

February 12, 2010, 11:37:12 am #28 Last Edit: February 12, 2010, 11:48:26 am by cremebrulee
Quote from: Ihopeuknow on October 29, 2009, 01:45:51 pm
It's a little thing I read by Dr. Phil.  I don't agree with everything he has to say but he has some great points and these are a few:

Life Law #2: You create your own experience.
Strategy: Acknowledge and accept accountability for your life. Understand your role in creating results.

You cannot dodge responsibility for how and why your life is the way it is. If you don't like your job, you are accountable. If you are overweight, you are accountable. If you are not happy, you are accountable. You are creating the situations you are in and the emotions that flow from those situations.

Don't play the role of victim, or use past events to build excuses. It guarantees you no progress, no healing, and no victory. You will never fix a problem by blaming someone else. Whether the cards you've been dealt are good or bad, you're in charge of yourself now.

Every choice you make â€" including the thoughts you think â€" has consequences. When you choose the behavior or thought, you choose the consequences. If you choose to stay with a destructive partner, then you choose the consequences of pain and suffering. If you choose thoughts contaminated with anger and bitterness, then you will create an experience of alienation and hostility. When you start choosing the right behavior and thoughts â€" which will take a lot of discipline â€" you'll get the right consequences.

Life Law #4: You cannot change what you do not acknowledge.
Strategy: Get real with yourself about life and everybody in it. Be truthful about what isn't working in your life. Stop making excuses and start making results.


If you're unwilling or unable to identify and consciously acknowledge your negative behaviors, characteristics or life patterns, then you will not change them. (In fact, they will only grow worse and become more entrenched in your life.) You've got to face it to replace it.

Acknowledgment means slapping yourself in the face with the brutal reality, admitting that you are getting payoffs for what you are doing, and giving yourself a no-kidding, bottom-line truthful confrontation. You cannot afford the luxury of lies, denial or defensiveness.

Where are you now? If you hope to have a winning life strategy, you have to be honest about where your life is right now. Your life is not too bad to fix and it's not too late to fix it. But be honest about what needs fixing. If you lie to yourself about any dimension of your life, an otherwise sound strategy will be compromised.

Life Law #6: There is no reality, only perception.
Strategy: Identify the filters through which you view the world. Acknowledge your history without being controlled by it.


You know and experience this world only through the perceptions that you create. You have the ability to choose how you perceive any event in your life, and you exercise this power of choice in every circumstance, every day of your life. No matter what the situation, you choose your reaction, assigning meaning and value to an event.

We all view the world through individual filters, which influence the interpretations we give events, how we respond, and how we are responded to. Be aware of the factors that influence the way you see the world, so you can compensate for them and react against them. If you continue to view the world through a filter created by past events, then you are allowing your past to control and dictate both your present and your future.

Filters are made up of fixed beliefs, negative ideas that have become entrenched in your thinking. They are dangerous because if you treat them as fact, you will not seek, receive or process new information, which undermines your plans for change. If you "shake up" your belief system by challenging these views and testing their validity, the freshness of your perspective can be startling.


There are more but that's pretty much what applied to what I was saying.


this is all fine and good, as long as your not being rejected, but if you are, then there is nothing no one can do....

We are not playing victims here....we have a strong support network which is beneficial to us all here....both DIL's and MIL's....

I don't always agree with Dr. Phil either, and am less and less enfactuated with him every day....

what you write is a good thing, however, what you don't seem to understand, is that all situations are unique, and sometimes there are no answers....

you need two willing people to accomplish a relationship, two mature people who are willing to take ownership and understand that we will never always think alike, but that doesn't mean one or the other is a horrible person....it's just simply our own personal institution...

In many cases where the DIL's or MIL's are nasty to they're husband's family, it's due to fear....jealousy, and the inability to cope with what they view as competition....they are unable to accept that they're husband's not only love they're mothers, but fear they love they're mothers more then them, which isn't true...but they fear it...

I find that a great deal of these people, both MIL's and DIL's, who are unwilling to not only have a relationship with the husband's family, but try to drive a wedge within, which is oft times successful....

my mother loved me unconditionally and so do my friends and the rest of my family...are they're family politics, sure, there are in every family...are they're family disagreements, sure,  but we all work thru them....we don't cut each other off...because we've had a  disagreement?  My friends whom I love dearly, love me unconditionally and I do them...we get along, b/c we all realize, we all make mistakes, we are imperfect....however, we do not wear two faces...one that is nice when others are around and one that is rude and very condiscending when there is no one within ear shot....

same with co-workers, you may not like everyone, or what everyone has to say....however, you are civil to each other and you get along....and show respect for one another....

you don't do things to create problems...you walk life, knowing full well, that no two people are ever going to agree....they everyone else in this world has a different oppinion...however, you also understand, that even if those opinions do not go along with how you believe, no one is tearing down your house, b/c of it....our DIL's take everything as a personal insult against they're characters....and, as mine does, I only used to see them once a year....when my son was talking to me, on two occassions, she gets up and walks out...why?  To redirect the attention back to herself...that is a very abnormal reaction to a situation...and an action that can only be interrited as a negative one....

I have read a lot of sincere posts here from MIL's who are dealing with situations that go beyond the norm....your not dealing with normal people....your dealing with people who have gotten by all they're lives by being the center of attention...and if they can't get it in a positive way, they will act out in a negative way to do so.  You also are dealing with people who refuse any ownership and it's always everyone else's fault...plus, if you tell these people they are wrong, it rocks they're boat big time, because they fear your telling them, what they've believed to be they're true world all they're lives is not true, and they can't handle that, nor can they handle rejection, therefore, they reject first.....

there are many reasons why people do things, not one, and all the answers cannot be grouped into one little hat....everyone of us is different...however, all the DIL's and MIL's here are having some kind of problem with they're people caused by someone who came into the family and should be proud to be part of that family instead of creating problems....

Also, I dunno, correct me if I'm wrong, but I've heard Dr. Phil is one sided and refuses to believe that a DIL is wrong and usually blames the MIL...and sides with DIL's, which to me, is wrong....so I lost respect for him a long time ago, b/c there are tons of MIL's out there who have every reason to be acknowledged. 

cremebrulee

February 12, 2010, 11:58:50 am #29 Last Edit: February 12, 2010, 12:03:50 pm by cremebrulee
Quote from: penstamen on October 30, 2009, 03:40:29 pm
Hi, everyone -

My dad fell for a controlling woman, and now he's totally dependent on her. She kept us apart, manipulated holidays and visits so much that my husband refused to participate because it hurt him to see me treated badly. My dad was in my neighborhood one day and invited me out to dinner, but I wasn't supposed to tell his wife because of her extreme jealousy. She's taken over his finances and re-written his will. He goes along with everything; she's convinced him she's got his best interests at heart. I've had to let him go for my own good. Now my DIL is pulling the same thing, although DS has stood up to her (at least he told us he has.)

Honestly, I don't see how I'm so threatening! I'm really not amazing, just a regular working drone and housewife. For some reason these women feel that it's OK to exclude me from my family. How can they sleep at night knowing they've caused another person heartache and loneliness? I'd feel horrible if I'd done that!


I'm so so sorry to hear your experiencing this twice...how very upsetting this must be for you and your husband....

I'm not so sure they are threatened by us as much as before they gain control of they're spouces...however, what they cannot do, is admit ownership...and, they only have one agenda....it's all about them, nothing more, nothing less, and a ruthless way to think...they don't seem to care about the feelings of others, but more so results...you've heard the comment, it's nothing personal, it's business...well, that is what it is...my son, loved me dearly and my DIL knew that...and instead of embracing that as a good thing, she saw it as a threat, and even started telling my son, from the very beginning, that I was threatened by her....he so wanted to believe that to be true, rather then the latter...

it's stricly business to them, and certainly not our way of thinking...

I was sharing some stories with my girlfriend from here and from the DIL's site, and her only comment was, "What is the matter with people today?"

I believe we all watch way to much TV...for one thing, and for another thing, we've forgotten what the gift of life is about...it isn't about me, it's about being in sync with each and every living thing....about love and trust, not betrayal and fighting, doing things to hurt people....

yanno Pen, these people care more about results then they do the feelings of others....and if you get in they're way, they get even....so, be very careful...your father's wife sounds ruthless....

I know someone this happened to....the kids got nothing....nothing...and I feel so badly, b/c they all grew up in that house, she took it away, by marrying the father, and a much younger girl...his wife had died, and she took advantage of the situation, now a very rich woman, but I do believe karma comes back to rear a nice head, or a very ugly one...

Pen, hugs and hang in there...
Creme